.

chevyontheriver · Jul 28, 2016

PapaZoom said:
That's not an interpretation I'd go with. It's not about a Catholic priest. It's about the fact that we have one more example of Muslims killing innocent people in the name of Islam. We are at war with these scum. They want to kill us. They hate.

Actually it is a bit about that Catholic priest. This priest was not a random victim. They (the militant and radical Islamists) hate us, true, but they hate us because we are Christians. I don't think they separate us out much from the rest of the culture in general though.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 28, 2016

PapaZoom said:
An Elder in a small congregation was also a high ranking police official in the small town. He was an expert in martial arts and could easily kill a man with his martial arts skills.

One Sunday morning, a man entered the Church with a gun. The Elder was standing at the back of the church by the door. The gunman didn't see the Elder and walked past him, with the gunman's back to the Elder. An easy target. As the gunman started to open fire, the Elder dropped to his knees and began to pray. The gunman continued shooting as people scrambled for their lives. Most people were able to escapes but not before more than a dozen lay wounded or dying in pools of blood. The gunman then turned to leave and saw the Elder one his knees, still praying. At point blank range, the gunman shot the Elder in the head, killing him instantly.

Immediately the Elder was in the presence of Jesus. But instead of being joyous, the Elder complained. Why didn't you stop that?!! I prayed you'd stop the killing and you did nothing! Why?!!!

Jesus answered, 'But I did do something. I put you in the back of the church at the right moment when the gunman was entering. I hid you from his view. I placed you in the right spot to stop his evil act. I made sure he didn't see you and stop him so his back was to you. I prepared you for this very moment. But you stopped short. There is a time to pray, and a time to fight. A time for war, and a time for peace. Did you not learn this?"

Yup.

Farmers wake up early and work in order to gather crops at season's end. They don't just pray.

chevyontheriver · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
What was the proper Christian response to Adolf Hitler?

I'm reading 'My Struggle Against Hitler' by Deitrich von Hildebrand and it is eye-opening how so many Christians either went along to get along, or really got sucked in by the Nazi party. Many of those who could have resisted either never saw it coming, minimized it, or in the end joined up in conformity. Few in Germany and Austria stood solidly against Hitler even though he was obviously enough a thug from the beginning. This book is a great read, and very applicable to our own time.

Archivist · Jul 28, 2016

chevyontheriver said:
OK, I get that. In other countries it is 17% or 9% or something. Still it adds up to multiple thousands with the ability and willingness to detonate. I fully get it that a majority of Muslims rarely if ever consider detonating oneself to be a good idea. Still, the minority of a billion Muslims that DO think it is a good idea is frightful in absolute numbers. Remember that Islam is supposedly a religion of peace, if you believe what everyone says.

No doubt, the are many Muslims who would either like to kill us or who, if they wouldn't take action themselves, would be happy to see other Muslims kill us. It is, however, still a minority. Earlier in the thread I mentioned my dear friend who is a Kurd. She would never think to do such a thing.

Archivist · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
So, you are pleased with the fact that 35% of Muslims in France (42% of younger Muslims) support the use of suicide bombing. That's a minor issue to you?

Have you considered converting to Islam or maybe taking some into your home? If not, why? You seem rather enamored with the "religion of peace".

Rather than making false accusations, as you have done throughout this thread, perhaps you should instead offer evidence to prove your claims.

I am a Christian. Why would I want to convert to Islam. I have simply pointed out a fact, that being that a majority of Muslims do not support ISIS. Why do you have such a problem with that?

jimmyjimmy · Jul 28, 2016

Archivist said:
No doubt, the are many Muslims who would either like to kill us or who, if they wouldn't take action themselves, would be happy to see other Muslims kill us. It is, however, still a minority.

Nineteen men took down the World Trade Center buildings, hit the Pentagon, killed 3,000, and cost the US 3.3 trillion dollars. They did that in the name of the god of Islam. Since then there have been nearly 30,000 more deaths and countless injuries, and these all were carried out by a minority. Does that matter? Does it mitigate the pain and suffering in ANY way that only a minority does the actual killing? Will you be happy when 51% of Muslims are trying to kill you?

Do you also not understand that it's the men of fighting age that do the linking in any war and in any culture. Women, children and older men don't actually do the fighting and killing, but they provide financial and moral support.

Archivist · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
Nineteen men took down the World Trade Center buildings, hit the Pentagon, killed 3,000, and cost the US 3.3 trillion dollars. They did that in the name of the god of Islam. Since then there have been nearly 30,000 more deaths and countless injuries, and these all were carried out by a minority. Does that matter? Does it mitigate the pain and suffering in ANY way that only a minority does the actual killing? Will you be happy when 51% of Muslims are trying to kill you?

Do you also not understand that it's the men of fighting age that do the linking in any war and in any culture. Women, children and older men don't actually do the fighting and killing, but they provide financial and moral support.

And, as I have said before, a majority of Muslims do not support ISIS. If you have proof to the contrary please offer it. Otherwise admit that I am correct.

Why would I be happy when 51% of Muslims are trying to kill me? That makes absolutely no sense.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 28, 2016

Archivist said:
And, as I have said before, a majority of Muslims do not support ISIS. If you have proof to the contrary please offer it. Otherwise admit that I am correct.

Why would I be happy when 51% of Muslims are trying to kill me? That makes absolutely no sense.

As others have said, it matters not if it's a majority or minority. One hundred percent of those killed by Muslims are killed by Muslims, and there have been 30,000 since 9/11. That's a majority.

Archivist · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
As others have said, it matters not if it's a majority or minority. One hundred percent of those killed by Muslims are killed by Muslims, and there have been 30,000 since 9/11. That's a majority.

People say stuff like this when they are wrong and can't find any proof to support their position.

Again, the majority of Muslims do not support ISIS.

Contrary to what you have been saying against me, I am not promoting Islam. I am a Christian, I do not want to become a Muslim. I am pointing out a simple fact that you keep trying to twist in various ways. Why can't you just admit the truth?

PapaZoom · Jul 28, 2016

chevyontheriver said:
Actually it is a bit about that Catholic priest. This priest was not a random victim. They (the militant and radical Islamists) hate us, true, but they hate us because we are Christians. I don't think they separate us out much from the rest of the culture in general though.

Yes you're right of course. It is about the killing of this Catholic priest. But what I mean is that there is a larger context to consider. The killing of the priest happened in the larger context of Islamic ideology.

Far Side Of the Moon · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
We have prayed for NYC, Paris, Munich. . . All we have done is pray. Now is a time for action. The world needs to come together to end Muslim terror.

I understand your sentiments but honestly..it won't end, haven't you read revelations? This things have to happen... Its all apart of prophecy. It wony end until the 2nd coming.

Landon Caeli · Jul 28, 2016

Archivist said:
People say stuff like this when they are wrong and can't find any proof to support their position.

Again, the majority of Muslims do not support ISIS.

Contrary to what you have been saying against me, I am not promoting Islam. I am a Christian, I do not want to become a Muslim. I am pointing out a simple fact that you keep trying to twist in various ways. Why can't you just admit the truth?

At 51%, would you then support doing something about it?

Norbert L · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
Yup.

Farmers wake up early and work to gather crops at season's end. They don't just pray.

That hypothetical scenario you're acknowleging, from my understanding is one of those being so heavenly minded, it's of no earthly good analogies.

From real testimony I've heard that I would consider valid:

Case #1. A Christian in good standing not only within his fellowship but also at his workplace. A fight broke out at work between two other workers, he tried to intervene. He was knifed to death.

Case #2. A pastor who taught me. He was praying in his basement and became aware of a noise behind him. So he turned around and saw an intruder. At that moment the intruder was suddenly thrown across the room through the air in the opposite direction and violently hit the far wall underneath the window he originally broke into to gain access. The intruder scrambled out of that window not to be seen again.

Case #3. Someone who I consider a Christian was waiting at a bus stop late a night, a bus stop he frequently used. Several men showed up and mugged him using a severe BEATING, took his money and fled. As our brother was praying and just about ready to get back to his feet, the muggers returned. They caringly pulled him up to his feet while profusely apologizing and gave him back all his money. They then fled again.

In my view that hypothetical you acknowledged, it just doesn't sit well with the reality I know. Life is more complex.

Archivist · Jul 28, 2016

Landon Caeli said:
At 51%, would you then support doing something about it?

I support doing something now, so long as our actions are against ISIS and other terrorists not innocent Muslims who do not support ISIS. Thank you for asking. Others have simply attacked me, even wrongly accused me of wanting to become a Muslim without even bothering to ask simply because I pointed out the truth that the majority of Muslims do not support ISIS.

PapaZoom · Jul 28, 2016

Norbert L said:
That hypothetical scenario you're acknowleging, from my understanding is one of those being so heavenly minded, it's of no earthly good analogies.

From real testimony I've heard that I would consider valid:

Case #1. A Christian in good standing not only within his fellowship but also at his workplace. A fight broke out at work between to other workers, he tried to intervene. He was knifed to death.

Case #2. A pastor who taught me. He was praying in his basement and became aware of a noise behind him. So he turned around and saw an intruder. At that moment the intruder was suddenly thrown across the room through the air in the opposite direction and violently hit the far wall underneath the window he originally broke into to gain access. He scrambled out of that window not to be seen again.

Case #3. Someone who I consider a Christian was waiting at a bus stop late a night, a bus stop he frequently used. Several men showed up and mugged him using a severe BEATING, took his money and fled. As our brother was praying and just about ready to get back to his feet, the muggers returned. They caringly pulled him up to his feet while profusely apologizing and gave him back all his money. They then fled again.

In my view that hypothetical you acknowledged, it just doesn't sit well with the reality I know. Life is more complex.

I'm not sure if you're referencing my story or not. If so, there is a larger principle that you seem to have missed. If you say you didn't miss it, I'm going to quiz you on it.

Norbert L · Jul 28, 2016

PapaZoom said:
I'm not sure if you're referencing my story or not.

Thank you for being kind and generous. We both know I'm referring to your hypothetical and I would say it's not without it's merits. I would argue that it just doesn't go deep enough to do justice to the topic.

wing2000 · Jul 28, 2016

PapaZoom said:
The Church is not the government.

Agreed. I didn't ask how the government should respond.

wing2000 · Jul 28, 2016

thatbrian said:
What was the proper Christian response to Adolf Hitler?

Stop ducking the question.

wing2000 said: ↑
A Church representing Jesus Christ was attacked. How would Jesus have the Christian Church respond?

PapaZoom · Jul 28, 2016

Norbert L said:
Thank you for being kind and generous. We both know I'm referring to your hypothetical and I would say it's not without it's merits. I would argue that it just doesn't go deep enough to do justice to the topic.

Well I didn't know for sure but I guessed right that you were referencing mine. There was another analogy used so I wanted to be sure.

I do agree that as an example it doesn't go deep enough. I was actually thinking of another story that illustrates the same point. I thought of the one I used because we do have an Elder in our church who is both a cop and a martial arts expert. He trains other officers. I would imagine that his instincts would kick in, were such a thing really to happen in our congregation, and the criminal would be laid out flat. As Christians, we don't have to sit by and allow evil to flourish. Besides prayer, there are other methods at our disposal. This is not the job of the Church but the government. But it's my job to protect those I love. That I would do.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 28, 2016

wing2000 said:
Stop ducking the question.

wing2000 said: ↑
A Church representing Jesus Christ was attacked. How would Jesus have the Christian Church respond?

The problem is not how the Christian church responds to the one incident. We have a much, much larger problem on our hands. Jesus would want the perpetrators of this crime brought to justice.

Which church are you referring to?

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