.

[ChristsSoldier115]

How so? I think he's right on point.

The fact he is obviously afraid of these guys.

 

[W2L]

He didn't have one. Had I been there I would have killed to protect. Not gladly. But out of necessity.

A nun is being raped. You gonna do nothing?

I'm not going to declare war on a whole nation over it, no.

 

[Landon Caeli]

THe Church doesn't enforce laws, the government does. The Church isn't the USA is it?

Are you drawing a division between Christianity and the Nation..? Then suggesting we choose only one?

No, Christians can support law enforcement both international and domestic while being in good faith.

 

[W2L]

That's not an interpretation I'd go with. It's not about a Catholic priest. It's about the fact that we have one more example of Muslims killing innocent people in the name of Islam. We are at war with these scum. They want to kill us. They hate.

I'm not at war, the world is at war. The Church doesn't go to war.

 

[Philip_B]

I am only saying this quietly, and I mean no offence to anyone. The tradition in which we stand (the faith of the Church of Jesus Christ) suggests that we need to be able to make a case for a 'just war' in order to wage it. The notion of a 'just war' suggests that there should be an enemy - an identifiable enemy. ISIS would have us understand that the enemy is Islam. I suspect that Islam wants to distance itself from ISIS, however because they have an understanding deeply grained within their tradition that the Koran is not scripture but the uttered words of Allah. Part of that is that Muslims don't speak against acts done in the name of Allah. Hence the great cry acknowledging Allah every time one of these atrocities happens. In this space I see Islam as a prisoner of its own tradition and effectively being mocked and held captive by ISIS. History has shown us that where we cannot make a case for a just war we are likely to loose it.

The Arab nations don't need to like the west very much. We have economically plundered their lands for a long time, and much of the wealth of the west has been made in the last 150 years on the back of oil extracted from the middle east where the gulf between the fantastically wealthy and the butt poor majority is offensive.

The west in general and USA (I don't live there) in particular are seen as the richest nations on earth, consuming great resources, and as such they become targets of note in these circumstances. We have intervened again and again in middle eastern politics, and with hindsight it may be hard to imagine how we could have made a worse job of it.

The lesson of history (that we do not learn the lesson of history) is perhaps because we do not ask the right questions of history. We see it as being about Who, What, Where and When. The question we need to ask of history is Why. We have been waging wars for a very long time, and I suspect that very little has been accomplished in war for the benefit of humankind.

We need people of good will on every side, to consider and search for just solutions to the problems. We as Christians should remember when we went to war against the infidel during the crusades the most destruction we did was to the Christian City of Constantinople, weakening it so much that it ultimately fell.

Waleed Aly - an Australian leading News Commentator and a Muslim, argues that Islamic State is week. They neither plan nor direct attacks, and if they are successful then they claim them. We have never had to deal with an an organisation like this before. It was popular when I was a school to be told that the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman, nor an Empire. I think the same must be said for Islamic State.

I bitterly lament the brutal slaying Fr Jacques Hamel, as in peace not malice he was offering to God bread and wine, in obedience and trust, and praying for the redemption of the whole world. May his portion this day be in peace and his dwelling in the heavenly Jerusalem †. I think it would be very sad if our memorial to him was violent.

I understand the fear. I read it here in this thread and I hear it around me. And I know, though sometimes I have to remind myself, that it is perfect love that casts out fear.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

What is chilling about about militant Islamists is how similar they are in recruiting fighters to the inner city gangs within out own cities with promises of brotherhood, glory, wealth, and honor.. when really they provide none of this.

 

[W2L]

Are you drawing a division between Christianity and the Nation..? Then suggesting we choose only one?

No, Christians can support law enforcement both international and domestic while being in good faith.

I don't condemn law enforcement. YOu can do whatever you feel is right. I don't feel right about promoting war efforts. I instead put faith in God that he will take care of it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I'm not at war, the world is at war. The Church doesn't go to war.

Then you will go the way of the Zoroastrians. See what Islam did to them, that's what awaits a rejection to act.

 

[W2L]

Then you will go the way of the Zoroastrians. See what Islam did to them, that's what awaits a rejection to act.

This country has a military and law enforcement and I don't think Islam will be defeating it and taking over America. I will not ask that military to go fight a war which will not only kill them but also innocent civilians as well. I don't need to act. I need to remain calm instead.

 

[W2L]

Fight a war of love. Declare war on hate and fight that war. Maybe it will be better and do some good.

 

[mikpat]

It is well known that Islamism is a religion of conquests and reconquests, despotism at home and aggression abroad—-a fanatical religious and political spirit. Religion and the State are not separated in Islam.

With the mass influx of Moslems, in the millions both here and Europe and with Barack Hussein Obama sitting by watching, it seems to me that when these illegals settle in with their mosques, and flourishing body of doctrine, there yearning for conquests will surface. Mohammedanism has survived and vigorously survived.
As Christianity fades in the USA and Europe, the rise of Islamism will have easy pickens. The decay of religion, the vital force which maintains a culture will see the decay of the culture.

The idea that Moslems will convert to Christianity and pick up a democratic way of life is pure naiveté.
A possibility——if the millions of Moslems in this Country stay Moslem and raise their family via the Koran,,,in about 8 to 10 years from now we may see the reappearing again of our civilization again fighting for its life. And it wouldn't surprise me that Obama will rise again, stronger than he is today as the true Moooslem he really is.

 

[W2L]

I am only saying this quietly, and I mean no offence to anyone. The tradition in which we stand (the faith of the Church of Jesus Christ) suggests that we need to be able to make a case for a 'just war' in order to wage it. The notion of a 'just war' suggests that there should be an enemy - an identifiable enemy. ISIS would have us understand that the enemy is Islam. I suspect that Islam wants to distance itself from ISIS, however because they have an understanding deeply grained within their tradition that the Koran is not scripture but the uttered words of Allah. Part of that is that Muslims don't speak against acts done in the name of Allah. Hence the great cry acknowledging Allah every time one of these atrocities happens. In this space I see Islam as a prisoner of its own tradition and effectively being mocked and held captive by ISIS. History has shown us that where we cannot make a case for a just war we are likely to loose it.

The Arab nations don't need to like the west very much. We have economically plundered their lands for a long time, and much of the wealth of the west has been made in the last 150 years on the back of oil extracted from the middle east where the gulf between the fantastically wealthy and the butt poor majority is offensive.

The west in general and USA (I don't live there) in particular are seen as the richest nations on earth, consuming great resources, and as such they become targets of note in these circumstances. We have intervened again and again in middle eastern politics, and with hindsight it may be hard to imagine how we could have made a worse job of it.

The lesson of history (that we do not learn the lesson of history) is perhaps because we do not ask the right questions of history. We see it as being about Who, What, Where and When. The question we need to ask of history is Why. We have been waging wars for a very long time, and I suspect that very little has been accomplished in war for the benefit of humankind.

We need people of good will on every side, to consider and search for just solutions to the problems. We as Christians should remember when we went to war against the infidel during the crusades the most destruction we did was to the Christian City of Constantinople, weakening it so much that it ultimately fell.

Waleed Aly - an Australian leading News Commentator and a Muslim, argues that Islamic State is week. They neither plan nor direct attacks, and if they are successful then they claim them. We have never had to deal with an an organisation like this before. It was popular when I was a school to be told that the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman, nor an Empire. I think the same must be said for Islamic State.

I bitterly lament the brutal slaying Fr Jacques Hamel, as in peace not malice he was offering to God bread and wine, in obedience and trust, and praying for the redemption of the whole world. May his portion this day be in peace and his dwelling in the heavenly Jerusalem †. I think it would be very sad if our memorial to him was violent.

I understand the fear. I read it here in this thread and I hear it around me. And I know, though sometimes I have to remind myself, that it is perfect love that cast out fear.

These are good points to consider as well.

 

[PapaZoom]

The government, not the Church. See a difference there?

Of course I know the difference. I've said that several times in this thread.

 

[PapaZoom]

The fact he is obviously afraid of these guys.

I doubt that. But what if he is? So what? How does that change the point he's making?

 

[PapaZoom]

I'm not going to declare war on a whole nation over it, no.

I didn't ask you that. I asked what you'd do and you avoided the question.

 

[PapaZoom]

I'm not at war, the world is at war. The Church doesn't go to war.

I didn't say the Church was at war.

 

[W2L]

I didn't ask you that. I asked what you'd do and you avoided the question.

I answered it according to the context of the discussion. You mentioned that we are war with these scum. War seems to be the context.

 

[W2L]

I didn't say the Church was at war.

And yet here we are, representing the Church and promoting war.

 

[Norbert L]

...the entire continent is being subverted by Islam while the media and political class still insist that the attacks have nothing to do with the millions of Muslim migrants that have poured into the continent over the last year.

The narrative of insisting the attacks have nothing to do with Muslim migrants, the way I see it; it's a long term narrative from powerful groups that have very influential people. Their idea being, just keep people inline with that and eventually things will change over a longer period of time. I don't know how that will play out over this generation of people.

I'm not certain how much the Media and Hollywood teachers of western culture will influence/seduce Muslims in the long run. The only thing I can compare it to is seeing the modern theological evolution of a divided Christianity to the little of I know about Islam and the Koran. It will be far harder for their clerics to proclaim that if Mohammed would be alive today, he too would fly the rainbow flag in the name of Allah.

One thing I do know, all people need to have an accurate transmission news reporting without playing around with language that obfuscates the facts.

 

[Landon Caeli]

And yet here we are, representing the Church and promoting war.

I like what Philip_b said about a "just war"... Such things do exist.