.

[samir]

Did Isaac Newton matter more than Hitler? Could we not attribute more value to mankind to Newton than Hitler?

Did William Shakespeare matter more than Justin Bieber ever will? Socrates more than Snoop Dog? Abraham Lincoln more than Al Sharpton?

Is it true that some lives matter more than others? Would you trade the life Jonas Salk (cured polio) for that of Kim Kardashian?

How about serial killers like Ted Bundy? Does your life matter more than his?

Do Some Lives Matter More Than Others?

Yes. The fact God commanded the Israelites to kill their wicked neighbors shows that God considered the Israelites more valuable.

 

[EatingPie]

As I see it, human beings act as though all lives matter -- all lives have value. That is how we act, regardless if we believe in God or not. How we apply that valuation, however....

Consider the nation's reaction to the tragedy at the Sandy Hook Elementary School. Collective horror is what I remember most. But how many of us actually knew those children? Or had any knowledge about the quality of their lives? Or even if some were "better" than others? All that mattered was the senseless loss of lives -- lives that had value in our eyes.

So my first observation: Humans value the lives of other humans; we act like all lives matter to us.

However we do not apply valuation equally across the board. As Sistrin points out, we value people we know more than those we don't (among other observations). In my heart I know my wife and children matter more to me than most other people.

My second observation: Humans value some lives more than others; as individuals, we act like certain lives matter more to us.

Then there's sin: racism, sexism, gay hating (homophobia is too wimpy a term), bigotry, hatred. What gave rise to "Black Lives Matter?" Personally I saw some people in power acting like Black Lives DO NOT Matter. Well, that's not entirely accurate. I saw some acting like Black Lives matter, but only in a detrimental sense. IE hating someone does not equate to "you don't matter to me," (otherwise it would be a non-issue, a wash at this point). Hatred equates to seeing someone with such "negative value," that we'd actually wish harm against that person (whether we perpetrate the harm or not).

So my final(?) observation: Hatred still recognizes value, but in a horrifically negative sense.... And humans in general name such behavior as evil; we act like it falsely devalues lives that do indeed matter.

-Pie

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

How else do you serve God than by serving your fellow man? God has no needs.

“God does not need your good works, but your neighbor does.” - Martin Luther

Quit using the American worldview for your standards, and begin using a more biblical worldview and you will have your answer. The American worldview, like all cultures's worldviews is flawed and evil.

 

[Beaker]

Ok...were Adam and Eve made in the image and likeness of God?

Of course, Genesis 1 v27 "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

My ego keeps telling me that I matter more than anybody else. That my oh so precious life is more precious than yours.
I'm waiting for Christian maturity to fully kick in.

Just pretend it has for a while. It finally will, if you get really good at pretending.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Quit using the American worldview for your standards, and begin using a more biblical worldview and you will have your answer. The American worldview, like all cultures's worldviews is flawed and evil.

What is uniquely American about what I said?

 

[Goodbook]

No it just means our lives as humans are redeemable only through Jesus blood.
With animals, they can multiply and God can redeem the creatures he chooses, but with humans, the only way we can ever be redeemed is through Jesus.

But as a christian you ought to know this esp if you have read Hebrews, how the blood of goats and bulls could never pay for all mankinds sin. It had to be another man, and it had to be God's only begotten son, who was sinless.

Because God's son mattered SO much to Him, by his blood, we who believe in His son also matter. Not just us right now but WHOSOEVER believes.

the famous people that you mention, if any of them believed in Jesus, God sees that. Thus, they matter to Him. Even if, we don't know them personally and might think of them as sinners or prodigals. I don't actually know them, but God knows their hearts.

 

[Goodbook]

maybe because you kept using american people as examples? eg kim kardashian, justin beiber, martin luther.

I mean, there's billions of people in this world, why pick on these people?

Really, what is the point of this question? God sees the humble, are these people humble?

Study the bible more and then you can find your answer.

1 corinthians 1
Wisdom from God

26Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly and despised things of the world, and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast in His presence.

30It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has been become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”c

 

[samir]

Martin Luther was an American? I thought he was German.

 

[Frisky Wren]

Did Isaac Newton matter more than Hitler? Could we not attribute more value to mankind to Newton than Hitler?

Did William Shakespeare matter more than Justin Bieber ever will? Socrates more than Snoop Dog? Abraham Lincoln more than Al Sharpton?

Is it true that some lives matter more than others? Would you trade the life Jonas Salk (cured polio) for that of Kim Kardashian?

How about serial killers like Ted Bundy? Does your life matter more than his?

Do Some Lives Matter More Than Others?

Here's a for instance given contemporary headlines that have appeared of late.
An ISIS terrorist has a girl child of two on her knees in front of him somewhere in northern Syria. He's holding the blade of an ax against her little neck readying to rear back and strike.
An American military sniper has him in his sights a mile away.

Should the sniper pull the trigger and save the little girl?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Should the sniper pull the trigger and save the little girl?

Its war, isn't it.

 

[Frisky Wren]

Its war, isn't it.

Is it?
Has America officially declared war on ISIS?
Or is our current president cutting our military while demonstrating he is physically incapable of forming the words, Islamic terrorist, and cutting the military budget while giving billions of our tax payer dollars to Iran for its military budget?

 

[ewq1938]

Is it?
Has America officially declared war on ISIS?

Wars never need "officials" or "declarations", at least unofficially which most wars are.

Guess what? Islam has been at war against everyone else since it began.

 

[Frisky Wren]

Wars never need "officials" or "declarations", at least unofficially which most wars are.

Guess what? Islam has been at war against everyone else since it began.

BFT = Bolded for truth.

 

[Bethany35]

the lives that are in danger or are oppressed by their countries most certainly matter more than those who are fine

 

[RDKirk]

Is it?
Has America officially declared war on ISIS?
Or is our current president cutting our military while demonstrating he is physically incapable of forming the words, Islamic terrorist, and cutting the military budget while giving billions of our tax payer dollars to Iran for its military budget?

You posed a good question, deep and relevant to the topic, in post #150.

Then you followed it with off-topic silliness.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

the lives that are in danger or are oppressed by their countries most certainly matter more than those who are fine

Really?

 

[RDKirk]

Here's a for instance given contemporary headlines that have appeared of late.
An ISIS terrorist has a girl child of two on her knees in front of him somewhere in northern Syria. He's holding the blade of an ax against her little neck readying to rear back and strike.
An American military sniper has him in his sights a mile away.

Should the sniper pull the trigger and save the little girl?

This is a worthwhile ethical dilemma to ask in a Christian context. Certain details of the scenario matter, IMO, and certain details do not. Politics, for instance, are irrelevant to the ethical dilemma. It could be in Dallas, the sniper could be a police officer or just a citizen with a gun, the assailant could be mentally deranged.

The important points of the dilemma:

1. The distance between the sniper and the point of incident makes it impossible for the sniper to intervene in any other way than pulling the trigger.

2. He has only a moment to make a decision, and there is no reason to think any other intervention (save divine) will occur.

3. The child is young enough that we have rationale to presume she could not have made decision to accept the Lord or not.

4. The imminent crime is heinous enough that we have some justification to presume the assailant does not know the Lord, and he's old enough to have made that decision (Romans 1 pertains even if the man has not heard the gospel).

I spent 26 years in the military, and come from a family that has been wholly military since the Spanish-American War (the daughters even married soldiers). Some scriptures I ponder over these situations:

Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! The fact that we are in a fallen world means that in most circumstances absolute righteousness in action cannot be obtained. In this fallen world, there is often no absolutely righteous option.

“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Many times the continuance of breathing is not the better choice. If the choice is between someone who has accepted the Lord--and is thus ready to meet his Maker--and someone who is not yet ready, the better option may be to give the one who is not yet ready more time for that choice.

I call this the "Nate Saint Decision." Which option affords the better chance to increase the number in Heaven by one more soul? If the person in danger of losing his life is already saved, allowing the unsaved person to live may be the better choice.

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. and

For God is not the author of confusion....

I recently heard someone say, "Satan moves freely under the veil of chaos." I've observed this to be true.

For example, currently the most regimented society on earth is North Korea, and for three generations the Kim dynasty has been the most oppressive regime against Christians on earth. What the DPRK has been doing to Christians for three generation has been horrible beyond credibility. Yet the Christian community in North Korea has grown from around 5,000 in the mid 90s to around 50,000 today...so much that Kim Jong Un has essentially abandoned trying to eradicate them and is now trying a ply of co-opting them (creating a "North Korean Orthodox Church").

OTOH, we see a situation of utter chaos like southern Sudan where it appears Christianity can gain no ground even underground.

My observance is that social chaos is a favorable environment for Satan while social order--even oppressive social order--is a favorable environment to the Holy Spirit. And I think that is why Paul and Peter could urge obedience to authorities that maintain social order even when that social order is essentially ungodly. And so a choice to maintain social order as made by a soldier or a police officer might also be the better option to consider because it enhances the environment for the saving of more souls to Heaven.

 

[Airus10111]

Did Isaac Newton matter more than Hitler? Could we not attribute more value to mankind to Newton than Hitler?

Did William Shakespeare matter more than Justin Bieber ever will? Socrates more than Snoop Dog? Abraham Lincoln more than Al Sharpton?

Is it true that some lives matter more than others? Would you trade the life Jonas Salk (cured polio) for that of Kim Kardashian?

How about serial killers like Ted Bundy? Does your life matter more than his?

Do Some Lives Matter More Than Others?

I would like to attempt to answer your original question: “Do some lives matter more than others?” However first, I want to rephrase some of the questions you posed in your initial post. I do not mean to do this to offend you, but to point out that those questions don’t really tackle the issue at hand. You are posing questions of “mattering” when really your questions seem to be dealing with “contribution.”

Did Isaac Newton’s contribution to society matter more than Hitler’s contribution? Yes.
Did William Shakespeare contribution to society matter more than Justin Bieber’s contribution? As it stand currently, yes.
Socrates’ contribution more than Snoop Dog’s contribution? Both contributed to separate fields (rap and philosophy), so there is no real comparison.

I think amariselle attempted to show you that your original posting deals with “presuppos[ing] that a person's life is worth more or less based on what they choose to do with their life.”

So you really need to answer the question: Do you believe that a person’s life has more value because of what they chose to do with their life? Instead of asking questions about Moses and “crackheads,” you should also answer the question: Does a firefighter’s life matter more than a person in a burning building? (Sure you could perpetuate this and ask, “What if Justin Bieber and Shakespeare were trapped in separate burning buildings? Who would you choose to save?” - Let’s just suppose that there is more than one firefighter, which is often the case).

I believe that all lives matter, but there are some lives who struggle more than others (Hitler, Ted Bundy, drug addicts) and those people are in need of redemption, both societally and internally. Unless we begin talking about redemption, forgiveness, and sanctity of all life, we just keep perpetuating that pain.

Did you know Hitler aspired to be a painter in his teens? Had he found his way in his art, maybe he wouldn’t have killed millions of people he deemed to matter less than him.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I would like to attempt to answer your original question: “Do some lives matter more than others?” However first, I want to rephrase some of the questions you posed in your initial post. I do not mean to do this to offend you, but to point out that those questions don’t really tackle the issue at hand. You are posing questions of “mattering” when really your questions seem to be dealing with “contribution.”

Did Isaac Newton’s contribution to society matter more than Hitler’s contribution? Yes.
Did William Shakespeare contribution to society matter more than Justin Bieber’s contribution? As it stand currently, yes.
Socrates’ contribution more than Snoop Dog’s contribution? Both contributed to separate fields (rap and philosophy), so there is no real comparison.

I think amariselle attempted to show you that your original posting deals with “presuppos[ing] that a person's life is worth more or less based on what they choose to do with their life.”

So you really need to answer the question: Do you believe that a person’s life has more value because of what they chose to do with their life? Instead of asking questions about Moses and “crackheads,” you should also answer the question: Does a firefighter’s life matter more than a person in a burning building? (Sure you could perpetuate this and ask, “What if Justin Bieber and Shakespeare were trapped in separate burning buildings? Who would you choose to save?” - Let’s just suppose that there is more than one firefighter, which is often the case).

I believe that all lives matter, but there are some lives who struggle more than others (Hitler, Ted Bundy, drug addicts) and those people are in need of redemption, both societally and internally. Unless we begin talking about redemption, forgiveness, and sanctity of all life, we just keep perpetuating that pain.

Did you know Hitler aspired to be a painter in his teens? Had he found his way in his art, maybe he wouldn’t have killed millions of people he deemed to matter less than him.

It's not simply about contributing.

Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.[c] You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’​

All lives need redemption. No one, least of all me, has questioned that.