.

[swordsman1]

Do you not know the difference between a means and a mechanism?

Call it what you like but Num 12:6 describes how prophecies are received.

Scripture states a "dream"... So you think you have an idea...

Have you had a prophetic dream??

If not, you then have no idea...

My idea on how prophecies are received is derived from the above verse.

Scripture tells us that in Christ's Holy Body, some are appointed to be Prophets...

That doesn't mean to say prophets are around today. Scripture also says some are appointed Apostles. Are Apostles around today? Scripture also says the church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and the prophets, Christ being the chief cornerstone. When you build a building, do you put down a second layer of foundation stones when the building is almost complete?

 

[Peter J Barban]

Consider the case of Jonah. In Jonah 1:1-2 it says,

"The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.””

We don't know how Jonah received the word; it might have been the audible voice of God, and internal voice, a dream or even something else.

Later, having completed his work, Jonah became angry at God's mercy. But God said to Jonah, in Jonah 4:9 “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

However God communicated, this was a personal message to correct Jonah. It was not a message for Jonah to deliver to others. Though we can learn from it as we do from all scripture.

In summary,
1. The Bible does not always tell us how people receive the word of the Lord, so don't be overconfident.

2. The Bible (in Jonah) does show the word of the Lord coming to an individual for personal application.

3. Let's avoid the dangerous logic of "It didn't happen in the Bible, and even if it did, it doesn't count.

 

[swordsman1]

Consider the case of Jonah. In Jonah 1:1-2 it says,

"The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.””

We don't know how Jonah received the word; it might have been the audible voice of God, and internal voice, a dream or even something else.

Later, having completed his work, Jonah became angry at God's mercy. But God said to Jonah, in Jonah 4:9 “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

However God communicated, this was a personal message to correct Jonah. It was not a message for Jonah to deliver to others. Though we can learn from it as we do from all scripture.

In summary,
1. The Bible does not always tell us how people receive the word of the Lord, so don't be overconfident.

2. The Bible (in Jonah) does show the word of the Lord coming to an individual for personal application.

3. Let's avoid the dangerous logic of "It didn't happen in the Bible, and even if it did, it doesn't count.

As I said before just because there are isolated examples of God having audible conversations with the patriarchs and other biblical figures in times past, doesn't mean it is normative for all believers today. If is is normative for us today to receive personal private revelations from God via our feelings there would be clear didactic teaching on the matter (eg in the epistles) that applies to us all.

 

[sunlover1]

As I said before just because there are isolated examples of God having audible conversations with the patriarchs and other biblical figures in times past, doesn't mean it is normative for all believers today. If is is normative for us today to receive personal private revelations from God via our feelings there would be clear didactic teaching on the matter (eg in the epistles) that applies to us all.

Firstly, it is clearly taught,
you just keep saying no to
those who show you proof.
Secondly, it should be a given
that if Jesus did NOTHING
except that the Father told Him
to, and we're to BE as Christ,
that we too would .. be as Christ.
The entire bible displays a Father
who communicates personally
with His kids,
Your churches dogma is clouding
your judgment.
That's fine, don't participate, but
also, don't discount Scripture and
experiences of the saints.

 

[Arsenios]

Call it what you like but Num 12:6 describes how prophecies are received.

Wrong - I tells us one way they can be received...

Another is in visions...

My idea on how prophecies are received is derived from the above verse.

So you think...

That doesn't mean to say prophets are around today.

IF the Body of Christ is around today, the Church of the Living God, then it is hard to avoid the very words which Holy Writ speaks concerning God appointing Prophets in it...

Scripture also says some are appointed Apostles.

Indeed so...

Are Apostles around today?

Of course! Scripture instructs us to imitate them...

I mean, is the Gospel being evangellized today? The Apostolic Gifts, which are the most rare, are still to be found on earth, and they operate primarily in prayer...

Scripture also says the church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and the prophets,
Christ being the chief cornerstone. When you build a building, do you put down a second layer of foundation stones when the building is almost complete?

No - That foundation is laid and affirmed already among the faithful... It is in the movement of the Gospel into new lands that the Apostolic Gifts again come into service, building anew upon that which has already been established...

Have you seriously read this:??

1Co 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last,
as it were appointed to death:
1Co 4:16
Wherefore I beseech you,
be ye IMITATORS of me.
1Cor 4:17
as I teach every where in every church.

We are all CALLED to BE Apostles...
Few are CHOSEN...
Because few are willing to imitate the Apostles...

9-17 describes what it looks like to imitate Paul...

Have YOU done so?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

As I said before just because there are isolated examples of God having audible conversations with the patriarchs and other biblical figures in times past, doesn't mean it is normative for all believers today.

And your proof for this is that YOU are a believer and YOU DO NOT HAVE conversation with God?

We ALL agree with you...

It is a STRAW MAN argument...

Some converse with God...
Some are pretenders...
Some are mentally ill...
Some do not converse with God...

And there are even some who deny that others converse with God because they themselves do not...
Conversely... Very few insist that YOU converse with God...

If is is normative for us today to receive personal private revelations from God via our feelings there would be clear didactic teaching on the matter (eg in the epistles) that applies to us all.

It is not normative for all...

But it sure is common enough...

And for those of us who do, we get long pretty well...

Arsenios

 

[sunlover1]

It is not normative for all...

But it sure is common enough...

And for those of us who do, we get long pretty well...

Arsenios

I used to feel the same way.
He can't "see" it.
There may be things I can't see too.
Who can know if there are things you
can't see, since you can't "see" them
LOL

May the Good Lord help us all to "see"!

 

[swordsman1]

Firstly, it is clearly taught,
you just keep saying no to
those who show you proof.

Where?

The entire bible displays a Father
who communicates personally
with His kids,

He does indeed communicate personally with us. But not by inner voices and such like.

Your churches dogma is clouding
your judgment.

My judgement is based on scripture, nothing else.

That's fine, don't participate, but
also, don't discount Scripture and
experiences of the saints.

If an experience is not biblical it certainly should be discounted.

 

[Arsenios]

If an experience is not biblical it certainly should be discounted.

Could you perhaps tell us of your "Biblical Experiences"??

There are Christian folks here living Spiritual lives...

Discounting them based on your lack of experience...

Is neither Biblical nor Christian...

Arsenios

 

[swordsman1]

Wrong - I tells us one way they can be received...

Another is in visions...

The verse says prophecies are received in dreams and visions. What other methods of receiving prophecies does scripture describe?

IF the Body of Christ is around today, the Church of the Living God, then it is hard to avoid the very words which Holy Writ speaks concerning God appointing Prophets in it...

Yep. And it says they were the foundation of the church.

Of course! Scripture instructs us to imitate them...

I mean, is the Gospel being evangellized today? The Apostolic Gifts, which are the most rare, are still to be found on earth, and they operate primarily in prayer...

No - That foundation is laid and affirmed already among the faithful... It is in the movement of the Gospel into new lands that the Apostolic Gifts again come into service, building anew upon that which has already been established...

Have you seriously read this:??

1Co 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last,
as it were appointed to death:
1Co 4:16
Wherefore I beseech you,
be ye IMITATORS of me.
1Cor 4:17
as I teach every where in every church.

We are all CALLED to BE Apostles...
Few are CHOSEN...
Because few are willing to imitate the Apostles...

9-17 describes what it looks like to imitate Paul...

Have YOU done so?

Arsenios

You are seriously suggesting we are all Apostles of Christ? We have all personally seen the risen Lord Jesus? We have all been commissioned personally by him? We all have the marks of an apostle, performing signs, wonders, and miracles (2 Cor 12:12)?

1 Cor 14:29 "Are all apostles?"

I don't think so.

 

[Arsenios]

The verse says prophecies are received in dreams and visions. What other methods of receiving prophecies does scripture describe?

Not for YOU to know, because Prophets are subject to Prophets...

They are NOT subject to YOU...

You are seriously suggesting we are all Apostles of Christ?

Can you read?

We have all personally met with the risen Lord Jesus?

Nope - Can you read?

We have all been commissioned personally by him?

Nope - Can't you find your glasses?

We all have the marks of an apostle, performing signs, wonders, and miracles (2 Cor 12:12)?

1 Cor 14:29 "Are all apostles?"

I don't think so.

Me neither, as you wrongly suggest...

Do you imitate Paul in afflictions? Or Christ?


Arsenios

 

[swordsman1]

Can you read?

I can. You said "We are all CALLED to BE Apostles..."

 

[sunlover1]

Where?

The passages you've been refuting the entire time you've been posting>
Including what I said last post.
We are to be as Christ, who ONLY did what He heard from the Father.

He does indeed communicate personally with us. But not by inner voices and such like.

Says who?

 

[swordsman1]

We are to be as Christ, who ONLY did what He heard from the Father.

Sorry, I don't follow. Are you suggesting because we are to be like Christ, we should expect to have all the abilities He had?

Says who?

Me, on the basis of scripture.

 

[sunlover1]

Sorry, I don't follow. Are you suggesting because we are to be like Christ, we should expect to have all the abilities He had?
He had all of the abilities He had because He was filled with the Holy Ghost.

Me, on the basis of scripture.[/QUOTE]
Nowhere in Scripture does it suggest that God doesn't
continue to speak to us.
You're kind of on your own on this one.

 

[swordsman1]

Nowhere in Scripture does it suggest that God doesn't
continue to speak to us.
You're kind of on your own on this one.

That is the 'argument from silence' fallacy - because scripture doesn't say we should NOT do something, it is ok do it. Scripture doesn't say NOT to practice hypnosis. Does that make it right to do so?

The thing is, on something as important as God's method of communication to us, it will say something. It does say God speaks to us through the scriptures. It doesn't say he gives us personal revelations by feelings or 'inner voices'.

 

[Arsenios]

I can. You said "We are all CALLED to BE Apostles..."

Followed by: Many are CALLED, FEW are chosen...

I am not one of the chosen...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Are you suggesting because we are to be like Christ,
we should expect to have all the abilities He had?

When WE are IN Christ, and Christ is IN US,
it is Christ Who is the Doer of the works...

Which abilities does Christ not have???

"And greater works that these shall ye do..."

Christ's very words...

Arsenios

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It is not my definition, it is what the bible says. I quoted the passages to back it up.

Yes you did, yet there were no biblical texts in his reply. . .

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Here it is - Please keep it in mind:



That is the rest of the thought...



You may recall that you were lamenting that when asked (specifically) what God said to them (in words) that everyone became vague and gave evasive replies, as you lamented in purple above... And you thereby dismissed their witness...

THEREFORE:

I gave you a very specific account of the very specific words which God very specifically said to me, in a conversation I had with Him that initially brought me to the Faith of Christ... So having given you this, you may lay aside your dismissal and respond, as you had previously declined to do because of the vagueness of the witness, to one small witnessing of a conversation with God...

Arsenios

Thanks for explaining. Now, would you please explain why you think that God spoke to you directly?