.

[Julie.S]

Clicky. Sorry you feel left out.
This is a real problem and should not be.
I prayed and asked God if HE wanted me in a church family,
that very evening a pizza deliv lady engaged me in conversation
and invited me to her church lol.
It was not near my home at all, but we went and it was awesome!
Such a sweet place. every single person comes to greet you!
Hope you find something better

Thanks I'm looking for a Quaker or non denominational at the moment.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Who argues about that? Saturday is the Sabbath and that has never changed. However, the reason the Church comes together to celebrate liturgy on Sunday is because of the Resurrection.

Well, ok, the people/churches I grew up around were always debating about it...I always thought it was Saturday, the 7th day, then Sunday was the 1st day of the week...but I do come from a pretty strange church background lol

I don't think church-going should be a legalistic "you must do this x amount of times a year" because that would take away from the worship, sacrifice, and relationship and put more emphasis on works, thus making it more of a works-related "offering". I think it's what God wants us to be doing, but to make it legalistic would be mirroring the Pharisees, who Jesus wasn't so fond of.

 

[sunlover1]

Who argues about that? .

Since you ask:
These folks
and these
and them there
and...nearly a hundred more Sabbath threads.

 

[stevenfrancis]

I know that at least for Catholics and Orthodox of all rites and stripes, the Holy Mass, or Divine Liturgy is the place where we join with the angels and saints in Heaven, praising the Lord. We share our history and stories in the liturgy of the Word. And finally we reach the source and summit of our Christian life......the reception of the very body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ in the celebration of Holy Eucharist. I can't imagine wanting to stay away from ANY of that. It is the same thing apostles did 2000 years ago, and it continues today. Is it mandatory? I suppose it is, in a sense. Certainly under canon law. But more importantly, it should be a desire. A hunger. To not want it, well, that would just be sad. We are a people. We have always gathered together for Eucharist and the Word. For praise and celebration. For fellowship and love. Rather than see it as "legalistic", it should be seen as divine gift and grace. Maybe I don't understand the question.

 

[stevenfrancis]

I'll check it out, thanks.

You may also enjoy taking a look at "The Didache". This could be as early as the 50's. No later than the 70's.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm

It's not much reading, but see particularly chapters 9, 10 , 12, 14

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

I know the answer is that there is a lot of hurt and hypocrisy, and I understand that. I have been hurt too, several times.

I know that too, but don't understand that. It's NOT about us, it's about HIM. I agree with the earlier poster that said it was defiant not to go to church.

Not going because you've been hurt (and yes I have), is to walk in self-pity, self-centeredness, unforgiveness, and disobedience. Doesn't that break fellowship with Him and stunt spiritual growth to some extent? I'm sorry to be extreme, but it's not any different from living together outside of marriage and calling yourself Christian.

 

[Extraneous]

You may also enjoy taking a look at "The Didache". This could be as early as the 50's. No later than the 70's.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm

It's not much reading, but see particularly chapters 9, 10 , 12, 14

No thanks, i believe its a waste of time. THese Church threads only get me in trouble, and so does Church. I'll be staying away from all that. THe Lord is enough for me.

We dont need to join with anything that causes us to stumble. Romans 14 teaches us not to judge and despise each other over holy days and food restrictions, that however doesnt apply to anything. IF a Church makes you stumble get away, because paul teaches that we should follow only those who walk as he does, and avoid the rest.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Here's a more interesting question -
Say there is a gospel preaching, yet theologically confused church within 5 minutes of my house that is comprised of people that live in my neighborhood. Let's say it's a conservative restoration movement church - a Christian Church. Or let's say it's a Methodist Church or Non-denom. They are theologically confused yet, for the most part, they preach Christ and him crucified.

Now say there's a solid reformed church 30 minutes from my house that adheres to the Westminster Standards that is comprised of people from a different neighborhood, or from all around the city, but who by and large are not my neighbors. These are people who I won't see often unless I really go out of my way to interact with them.

Which church should I choose? The one with the greater theological affinity that is 30 minutes away? Or the one with the greater geographical affinity that has some confused theology?

Good questions. I have no doubt our Lord would answer you if you took this one to HIM in prayer! Until then I would ask myself 1) where can I best serve God by serving others 2) is the confused theology salvation issues or non-essential? Will it led me or my family astray?

I think scriptures calls us to especially love those in the household of faith, and that's just easier when they are in our local community.

My husband and I decided to switch churches when we moved 10 miles further away simply because gas prices were outrageous at the time, and my car got terrible gas mileage, so it didn't seem wise, or a good steward of God's $$.

 

[Free at Calvary]

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED FOR WORSHIP
John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO LEARN OF GOD
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO PARTAKE OF CHRIST
1 Corinthians 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE SAVED
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

CHURCH IS FOR MINISTRY AND THOSE WHO NEED IT – IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT
1 Corinthians 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

 

[Tree of Life]

wooooooooooooooooow

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Here's a more interesting question -

Say there is a gospel preaching, yet theologically confused church within 5 minutes of my house that is comprised of people that live in my neighborhood. Let's say it's a conservative restoration movement church - a Christian Church. Or let's say it's a Methodist Church or Non-denom. They are theologically confused yet, for the most part, they preach Christ and him crucified.

Now say there's a solid reformed church 30 minutes from my house that adheres to the Westminster Standards that is comprised of people from a different neighborhood, or from all around the city, but who by and large are not my neighbors. These are people who I won't see often unless I really go out of my way to interact with them.

Which church should I choose? The one with the greater theological affinity that is 30 minutes away? Or the one with the greater geographical affinity that has some confused theology?

I've wrestled with this question for many years, and here are my thoughts.

Since a large percentage of what we do in our churches is learn (that's a disciple, right?) then drive the 30 minutes. To me, and I've seen it all, the purpose-driven, entertainment-driven, stage-lights, skits, comedic acts, programs, personal stories rather than sermons. . . It's a mess, and you can't fix it.

In most Reformed churches, there is a faithful pastor who actually does something amazing. He opens the Bible and preaches from it. He brings God's truth to the sheep, and that is vital. "You shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord."

You have to go out of your way to interact with your next-door neighbor where I'm from, so besides the drive, there isn't much difference there. Yes, in a perfect world, you could have both, but give a choice, God's word rightly divided, preached and taught will keep you alive and well, while "life skills training" (how to/moralistic sermons) won't.

 

[sunlover1]

But if He IS nudging you, just do it!
Woman goes through church window

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If it's a requirement, how many days a year are required?
And how many hours a Day are required?
How much time can you miss before you break this requirement ?
Are people that work weekends (police, military, doctors, nurses, ect) exempt from this Requirement?

Good questions. Do you have any opinions?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If a church preaches the gospel

I don't find that many do. Many preach moralism. They commit the Galatians error, starting with faith for justification, but continuing with works for sanctification.

There is a famine in the land. . .

 

[sunlover1]

Here's a more interesting question -

Say there is a gospel preaching, yet theologically confused church within 5 minutes of my house that is comprised of people that live in my neighborhood. Let's say it's a conservative restoration movement church - a Christian Church. Or let's say it's a Methodist Church or Non-denom. They are theologically confused yet, for the most part, they preach Christ and him crucified.

Now say there's a solid reformed church 30 minutes from my house that adheres to the Westminster Standards that is comprised of people from a different neighborhood, or from all around the city, but who by and large are not my neighbors. These are people who I won't see often unless I really go out of my way to interact with them.

Which church should I choose? The one with the greater theological affinity that is 30 minutes away? Or the one with the greater geographical affinity that has some confused theology?

The one God leads you to.
Where I live there's a church on every corner, literally
Mostly Reformed churches, some CRC and rarely a non denom or lutheran.
God has sent me to three churches, and one was in a pretty questionable
side of town and a long drive. But its when you're in your 'place' that He
can reach you best.
I too pondered this question a few years ago and so we went to the one on
the corner,.. very nice LARGE building.. a pretty good sized Reformed church.
Not one person said hi or even nodded our way. before/during or after.
I was so sad that day, so many beautiful dresses/ suits and well groomed folks..
and right from my kind of fancy neighborhood lol. But it wasn't where i was sent.
Decided to stick where God had been sending me and continued to make the trek.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

The above requires personal contact, and it's regarding how Christians treat other Christians. No Church? try doing this online.

Sure, you could FedEx a fruitcake to aunt betty in the hospital, or Skype her (oh wait, she's 90, and doesn't know what that means) but from the text, there is something a bit more intimate than that involved.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Tins,

Thanks again for taking the time to write that wonderful post. I think your post was Biblical sound, well thought out, wise, and kind-hearted.

I wish there were more like you on CF.

It's hard for me to wrap my head around someone NOT going to church, but I know the church has hurt a lot of people and that there are so many bad ones out there.

If one is hurt, he is to bless his enemies, no? If one was wronged at a church is he not to forgive the offender, or is he to become bitter and never darken the doorway of a church again? If in fact a person has written off the church for being slighted, offended/sinned against, rather than excuse the bitterness should we not encourage them to forgive lest they ruin their lives? (I'm NOT talking about doing that on CF. That's impossible. I mean in person)

But for those who have been severely hurt by the church or who are unsure about attending, I am trying to be more compassionate and understanding. I don't see them as less of a Christian for that.

Unforgiveness is treated pretty severely by Christ. . .

The point being, if you're ill, the body of Christ has an obligation to visit you, to bring comfort to you, even to lay hands on and pray for you. I know there are so many bad churches out there. And that is why so many people are afraid of going to church. But there are so many good ones out there too. You just have to look. It's worth it.

You can't do those things unless you are face to face. On my deathbed I don't want an IM from my wife. I want her hand in mine.

I've had to look and seek and talk to church planters for over 10 years. There are many, many bad churches out there. They have suffered from mission drift, or much worse, they have become circuses.

People were HUNGRY and would travel just to see these men who were teaching. They didn't care about the music, the way people were dressed, or how cool the pastor was. They wanted the truth and were so hungry they didn't care what it took.

YUP!

Now in this day and age, church is formulated to be more about what is appealing to people. And I have no problem with that.

I do. People, especially the unregenerate don't know hat's good for them. To ask an unbeliever to design a worship service is unfathomable lunacy.

 

[sunlover1]

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED FOR WORSHIP
John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO LEARN OF GOD
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO PARTAKE OF CHRIST
1 Corinthians 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE SAVED
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

CHURCH IS FOR MINISTRY AND THOSE WHO NEED IT – IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT
1 Corinthians 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

I agree, it's not "required" but it's certainly a good thing to do!

I know many Christians who don't attend a church and they're still what I consider to be true followers of Christ. I feel that they would be hugely blessed and would grow more as well as have more support and empowerment through the body of Christ if they had a church family. I'm a very solid church goer and it wasn't until the last few years that I allowed myself to skip a week once in a while for vacation or whatever. It's hard for me to wrap my head around someone NOT going to church, but I know the church has hurt a lot of people and that there are so many bad ones out there.

I think they would probably be hugely blessed too, but I'm not them
and maybe they feel differently. Like @Free at Calvary mentioned, it's not
"required" it's a place of (hopefully) equipping for ministry.
Most of the churches are heretical right now.
God says no division, but they refuse to listen.
So i won't fault anyone for not attending their clubs.
Can't even receive communion if you don't have official membership.
Those folks you spoke of who were traveling with or coming out
to see Jesus, those He was feeding etc. They would be the same
ones who'd come out to see Him now, if He came to town in the flesh.
And He'd never ask for a membership card. In fact, He hates the division.
When I share this message, as I often do here, I get tomatoes thrown at me lol
But thought I'd mention the unity thing anyhow
Glad you're digging your church, praise God!

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

I don't know why anyone would throw tomatoes at you for that lol...

I actually don't agree with church membership. I don't think it's right. Now my church does allow communion to anyone who wants to take it...kids included...otherwise I would be pretty upset.

I grew up in what was called the Plymouth Brethren or Exclusive/Closed brethren. We had no pastors, no music, and things were done in kind of a strange way. We would have singing, but the songs could only have specific words, there were prayers, and there were Bible readings with short words on what the brother thought about them. Only men could speak, of course. In between each of these things, there was complete silence. It was meant to help you reflect on Christ. In some ways, I miss the silence, I'll be honest. In other ways, I don't see where there was that silence in Scripture, at least not when it came to a public group. Then after a while, a brother (but it had to be an approved one) would get up and say a scripture about the bread, pray, and then the bread got passed around, only to those who were deemed good enough by the elders to participate. On many occasions, I got thrown "out of fellowship" as a teenager because of my "rebellion" against my family. Which is a story for another day lol but I wasn't doing anything that was "bad enough", to say the least. Then the same routine would be followed for the cup. Everyone would partake. Then it would finish out with another hymn, another Scripture, and a prayer. None of it was preconceived, so in one way, it was completely Holy Spirit led. In another way, it was so so so legalistic, that my family was about the only people there and I didn't have any friends and wasn't allowed to have friends "from the world" or even from other churches.

Yeah. Now I'm in a Foursquare church and I love it. There are still some things that aren't right, but I can overlook those. They're not life or death. They preach the gospel. They go into all the world. They go into the community. There are so many opportunities for people to serve...and many more opportunities to be healed and helped in any area of life. All people, children included, are encouraged to participate in everything. The children even get opportunities to be part of the worship team, the plays that are put on (for the community in community events as well as in church for Christmas/Easter), and other ministries. There are so many good aspects to my church and I know that I am very very blessed to have found it.

I have been severely hurt by a certain denomination as well as by the Plymouth brethren movement. But that doesn't stop me. I know it was PEOPLE, who are fallible, who hurt me, and not God. I just had to keep searching. I don't believe that this church is my home forever, or that this state for that matter is my home forever. But while I'm here, I will enjoy it and encourage others to attend. And when God calls me to move, I know that I will be looking for another good church just like this. Far be it from me to ask people to attend a church that is either untruthful, legalistic, or isn't led by God.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I grew up in what was called the Plymouth Brethren or Exclusive/Closed brethren.

My wife did too, and then her family went to a pentecostal church. I don't know if there are two options more extreme than those, do you?