.

[Llewelyn]

Where in the Bible does it talk about being under church authority?

I believe in the assembly and the community of the gospel and I also believe in the unity of the Spirit.

Yes we should go to church, which is identified as both a unit and a place in Scripture, but the second does not exist without the first. Meet with as many as you can and meet where you can afford because neglecting fellowship is neglecting your spiritual well-being. We are the body of Jesus and no body can have life in bits and pieces. Pull it apart and it dies.

The church is not our courthouse, it is our home: a place where we belong. Don't you love going home?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Where in the Bible does it talk about being under church authority?

"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction,

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

That's interesting! I don't know too many who came from that background. You're right, I don't think there's are two more opposite sides of the spectrum. My family moved to a Baptist church when I was 17 and that was my first time experiencing a real church. When I was 19, I met my husband and he attended an Assemblies of God church. That freaked me out so bad lol but I adjusted, and left the Baptist church to attend my husband's church. 5 years ago I moved to the Foursquare church for reasons that I don't wish to go into at the moment and I have been happy there ever since. It was quite a shock to go into the pentecostal side of things and I still have some questions and worries but for the most part I'm ok with it now

 

[sunlover1]

I don't know why anyone would throw tomatoes at you for that lol...

I know lol. well it's true.
Because people get so attached to their traditions that they choose them over Scripture.
I guess!
Scripture says not to be divided.
it's called Heresy.

I actually don't agree with church membership. I don't think it's right. Now my church does allow communion to anyone who wants to take it...kids included...otherwise I would be pretty upset.

And I wouldn't broadcast that either unless you NEED some tomatos.
Our church does too though, We figure Jesus wants all to eat and drink.
And I also believe you can take communion 'as often as you eat it" in remembrance.
IOW, if 2 or more are gathered. I believe that He loves us to 'remember' Him this way.

I grew up in what was called the Plymouth Brethren or Exclusive/Closed brethren. We had no pastors, no music, and things were done in kind of a strange way. We would have singing, but the songs could only have specific words, there were prayers, and there were Bible readings with short words on what the brother thought about them. Only men could speak, of course. In between each of these things, there was complete silence. It was meant to help you reflect on Christ. In some ways, I miss the silence, I'll be honest. In other ways, I don't see where there was that silence in Scripture, at least not when it came to a public group. Then after a while, a brother (but it had to be an approved one) would get up and say a scripture about the bread, pray, and then the bread got passed around, only to those who were deemed good enough by the elders to participate. On many occasions, I got thrown "out of fellowship" as a teenager because of my "rebellion" against my family. Which is a story for another day lol but I wasn't doing anything that was "bad enough", to say the least. Then the same routine would be followed for the cup. Everyone would partake. Then it would finish out with another hymn, another Scripture, and a prayer. None of it was preconceived, so in one way, it was completely Holy Spirit led. In another way, it was so so so legalistic, that my family was about the only people there and I didn't have any friends and wasn't allowed to have friends "from the world" or even from other churches.

I see what a rebel you are now!
lol

Yeah. Now I'm in a Foursquare church and I love it. There are still some things that aren't right, but I can overlook those. They're not life or death. They preach the gospel. They go into all the world. They go into the community. There are so many opportunities for people to serve...and many more opportunities to be healed and helped in any area of life. All people, children included, are encouraged to participate in everything. The children even get opportunities to be part of the worship team, the plays that are put on (for the community in community events as well as in church for Christmas/Easter), and other ministries. There are so many good aspects to my church and I know that I am very very blessed to have found it.

We let kids come play instruments too (worship team)

I have been severely hurt by a certain denomination as well as by the Plymouth brethren movement. But that doesn't stop me. I know it was PEOPLE, who are fallible, who hurt me, and not God. I just had to keep searching. I don't believe that this church is my home forever, or that this state for that matter is my home forever. But while I'm here, I will enjoy it and encourage others to attend. And when God calls me to move, I know that I will be looking for another good church just like this. Far be it from me to ask people to attend a church that is either untruthful, legalistic, or isn't led by God.

Good attitude

 

[Llewelyn]

"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction,

Very good, thanks. I was trying to relate it back to Scripture and looking in the wrong direction. Every orderly home has a pleasant structure that makes you want to belong.

 

[sunlover1]

Perhaps that is why some of these folks on CF do not join a church. I have a feeling it might be Rick's reasoning, or one of them.

But I don't see it as a excuse for a majority of the cases, because my home town alone has like 8 churches on a single street. Are all of them heretical? Some people do come from one church towns, but in my experience a lot of american towns have as many churches as they do McDonalds.

If they're denominational then they're heretical
1 Cor 11:19
18For first of all, when ye come together in the church,
I hear that there be divisions among you;
and I partly believe it.
19For there must be also heresies among you,
that they which are approved may be made
manifest among you.
1 Corinthians 11:19 N-NFP
GRK:γὰρ καὶ αἱρέσεις ἐν ὑμῖν
NAS: also be factions among
KJV: be also heresies among you,
INT: indeed also factions among you

STRONGS NT 139: αἵρεσις hairesis:
choice, opinion
Original Word: αἵρεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hairesis
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-ee-res-is)
Short Definition: a self-chosen opinion, a sect
Definition: a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention.
αἵρεσις, (εως, ἡ;

1. (from αἱρέω), act of taking, capture: τῆς πόλεως, the storming of a city; in secular authors.

2. (from ἁιρέομαι), choosing, choice, very often in secular writings: the Sept. Leviticus 22:18; 1 Macc. 8:30.

3. that which is chosen, a chosen course of thought and action; hence one's chosen opinion, tenet; according to the context, an opinion varying from the true exposition of the Christian faith (heresy): 2 Peter 2:1 (cf. DeWette at the passage), and in ecclesiastical writings (cf. Sophocles' Lexicon, under the word).

4. a body of men separating themselves from others and following their own tenets (a sect or party): as the Sadducees,Acts 5:17; the Pharisees, Acts 15:5; Acts 26:5; the Christians,Acts 24:5, 14 (in both instances with a suggestion of reproach); (inDiogenes Laërtius 1 (13) 18f, others, used of the schools of philosophy).

5. dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims:Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 11:19. (Cf. Meyer, at the passages cited; B. D. American edition under the word ; Burton, Bampt. Lect. for 1829; Campbell, Diss. on the Gospels, diss. iv., part iv.)

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I agree with the earlier poster that said it was defiant not to go to church.

I think that defiant might be a good word to describe it, but there could certainly be other reasons as well. My experience with people naming themselves Christians yet having distain for His church is limited to CF. I do know others who have walked away from the Church, but they don't claim to be Christians, so this combination of churchless and Christian is new to me, which is why I started a thread. Not that I don't think it's wrong for a Christian to remain churchless (if they are not bedridden or in a very remote location), but to see how people reconcile church-less & Christian. What I've come across so far has been much defiance.

Many posters, across several threads, who've opposed the idea that a Christian should be a member of a local church have been belligerent, rude, impatient, and much worse. So much so that I've had to block and/or report them. So, there might be a rebelliousness to the anti-church crowd, but that's nothing more than a guess, based on some posts on CF.

Not going because you've been hurt (and yes I have), is to walk in self-pity, self-centeredness, unforgiveness, and disobedience.

I agree, and I have been hurt by people in churches and as well.

Using "I've been hurt by the church" as reason, first of all is not an accurate statement. A person or group of people may have hurt someone, but not the church. Secondly, you are right, if the reason that someone gives for walking away from the church is that he has been hurt, then self-pity, self-centeredness, and unforgiveness are to be suspected. . .

 

[FanthatSpark]

I interpret Matt 16 this way: Just before Jesus said what He did to Peter, Peter said this to Him, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”.

And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Peter's confession, his statement that Jesus is the Christ, is what the church is built upon, in my understanding.

Yes ,

And the Christ is the Word... Light, and judged good, Geneses 1:4. A church is the flesh that can build a physical church. For me, Peter recognizes the Spirit/Christ for the Father gave him the knowledge. However, yester-year in "my knowledge alone" what I read, is. There was no Spirit in what "I" read so Church was physical to me and for decades "I alone" was missing the point like in John 5:39 where verse 40 was missing in self (Following ,,). A good verse is the one of "Fishing for men"/women/flesh/church- the heart of the flesh.

What is required, is sequester in the Word and prayer (with no distractions like a TV, Iphone or Radio ) for a season to revamp the mind from judgment to forgiveness, as Jesus sent his disciples away to sequester in Luke. A church/physical is either for training and/or helping it through God to righteousness depending upon where we are at in the journey. The Church of the flesh however, only God can remold, if we are willing. The Spirit is a whisper and can be easily drowned out or distracted from if there is no quiet/sequester in prayer Word and a willingness to apply the whisper to selves I Corinthians 13:4 concentration on" vaunteth not itself" for it is a whisper. I reiterate , no man can guide the Spirit , self included, so depending upon the place holder of our individual journeys plays a major roll of what physical church to attend. Pray upon these words with our final authority readers . In hopes...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The Spirit is a whisper and can be easily drowned out

I don't follow.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Below are a couple of paragraphs from a Christianity Today interview with pastor Kevin DeYoung:

In the New Testament, you get a good sense that the church looks a little different in Acts than it does in Corinthians and in Timothy. But there's teaching. There's singing. There's praying. There are sacraments.

It's important to remember that when you have two people at Starbucks who are talking about Jesus, that's nice and that may be a group of Christians, but a church has order, offices, and certain worship elements.

. . . The second danger with churchless Christianity is that in some instances, it might not be Christianity anymore. Churchless Christianity sometimes seems to be anti-pastor, anti-sermon, anti-doctrinal boundaries, and the mantra, "I want Jesus, not religion."
​

The complete article here:http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/august/35.58.html

 

[imstillstanding]

I have been taught that church is not optional, but I don't go to church very often. Sometimes I feel guilty about it. Maybe I just haven't found the right church yet. The legalism is tough to follow. And some attendees really show out, leaving me feel like I'm missing something, doing something wrong because I'm not acting "as christian" as they are.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Is being joined to a local body of believers, and under the authority of the church, optional or manditory for a Christian?

Is it personal preference, like toppings on a pizza, or is it obligatory and fundament for all Christians?

Was always mandatory.
St Paul said - receive the Eucharist as often as you can.
How does one receive if they are not going?
How is it ppl can claim they do not need to 'go out' [another meaning of Church]
God doesnt come to us... we go to Him.

The ppl followed the church in ancient times by following the men who preached the Lord. [Apostles].
They did not sit in their homes and say 'He is here, we're ok.'

 

[WarriorAngel]

I have been taught that church is not optional, but I don't go to church very often. Sometimes I feel guilty about it. Maybe I just haven't found the right church yet. The legalism is tough to follow. And some attendees really show out, leaving me feel like I'm missing something, doing something wrong because I'm not acting "as christian" as they are.

We're all sinners.
We need Church for that purpose.
Jesus established a leader in the OT [Moses]
And thus Apostles to bring in all to His Church.
Men must lead men.
And even the men who lead will be failures.
We arent there to judge Jesus by Judas's that exist.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Agreed. There is no such creature as a churchless Christian in the pages of scripture. Our salvation is wrapped up in being brought into the church.

You do realize the hypocrisy in saying to me and my situation that it's ok to home church and for someone else, their salvation depends on it... unless you truly believe that my walk is compromised because I don't congregate corporately.

Also, are you saying that there is truth in all denominations and churches? How do I know which ones have truth in their doctrines? Or is it just get together and love Jesus?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Then of course there is the argument about which is the true Sabbath day. But I tend to think that's a little irrelevant...though I don't have any Scripture for that.

There is no valid argument for Sabbath being anything other than what God Sanctified and Hallowed... no Biblical argument anyway.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Was corporate a word Jesus used?

Didn't Jesus say 'Do as they say - obey those who sit on the chair of Moses?'
Despite - yes despite their own failings.

 

[Rick Otto]

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED FOR WORSHIP
John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO LEARN OF GOD
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO PARTAKE OF CHRIST
1 Corinthians 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation.

CHURCH IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE SAVED
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

CHURCH IS FOR MINISTRY AND THOSE WHO NEED IT – IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT
1 Corinthians 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

Amen

 

[Extraneous]

Was corporate a word Jesus used?

Didn't Jesus say 'Do as they say - obey those who sit on the chair of Moses?'
Despite - yes despite their own failings.

Thats not what Jesus said. He said to follow the commands that they teach but not their tradition or their example, because they say but do not do. THe difference between those who sat in Moses seat and those who sit in Church chairs, is that those who sat in Moses seat were actually teaching God commands, although they made it void with their tradition. We are not commanded to fellowship or follow pharisees or anyone else but Christ and His NT apostles. Anyway, i better run for the hills again before i get run off.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Um, He didnt say that.

He said [let me paraphrase in todays language] to the Pharisees.
What's up with how you are so strict in keeping your hands washed that you are not mindful of your parents?
You put them off like a burden and do the least possible, but you worry about the little things that are not about loving...
and honoring.

AND yes, He did say 'OBEY those who sit on the chair of Moses.'

I didnt see a retraction of that...[until He chose Simon to be rock]
Which in and of itself means you have to understand the part of the keys stemming from Isaiah... 22.
The Steward holds the keys of the King and rules it in the place of the King in His absence.
Ya see, Isaiah also said - BORN unto us is a Son....who shall have the government on his shoulder. Meaning: He will be King and have the keys to choose a Steward.
Because - back in the time of Isaiah - the King wore a robe and a tie around his waist to fling the keys over his shoulder so he had them at all times.
In His absence it was given to the steward.
Another reference to 'authority' BTW.

A chair is a reference to - a seat of authority.

 

[Llewelyn]

I have been taught that church is not optional, but I don't go to church very often. Sometimes I feel guilty about it. Maybe I just haven't found the right church yet. The legalism is tough to follow. And some attendees really show out, leaving me feel like I'm missing something, doing something wrong because I'm not acting "as christian" as they are.

Every people group has its likes and dislikes. Here in Forbes I attend the local Generocity Church once a fortnight and Molong Community Church once as fortnight. I have become quite involved in both. They are both very different in their flavour though they both belong to the ACCC group. From the looks of your attire in your picture I would say you would probably feel more comfortable in GC right now. The other thing is in Molong we sing with a strong country flavour while GC is more to the more contemporary worship. They've asked me to play acoustic guitar in GC so that's going to be interesting, I don't understand rock. lol.

Fitting into a church has more to do with you than you realise. If you decide you don't like it you won't fit. I believe we are in a covenant relationship and it is our responsibility to love those we find unlovely. I don't find it easy because I'm shy but I go out of my way to connect. When you go to church greet as many as you can and let them know you're happy to be with them. You may find that bloke wearing the lime green suit and polished shoes [me] actually isn't so bad after all and he really doesn't look at your appearance even if you're wearing a 1600s hoodie [lol. Just having a go at fashion].

I'm not like those who say that they only go to church to worship God because you can't love God and not your brother.

How do you think its going to look in those flashy disco lights with a guy in a lime green suit and shiny shoes standing next to a bass guitarist either barefoot or in thongs and shorts? Its going to be interesting. I could tone it down to the bright blue or the deep purple I suppose.