70 weeks

[Douggg]

Yet you preach their teaching on the future antichrist and the gap theory.

So then you are saying that some of what they say is truth as determined by you.

I will go with the reformers and not the teachings of the Jesuit Ribera

"He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist."

Jesuit Futurism

Read and understand

My futurist view is Endtimes Eventism. Nothing to do with coming from Ribera.

Your historicist view is Seventh Day Adventism. Rooted in the reformers beliefs about the Pope/papacy being the Antichrist/beast - yes or no?

 

[keras]

The word "after" used in Daniel 9:26 is clearly used in relation to the 69th week, not in relation to what point in time during the 70th week Messiah would be cut off. The 3 1/2 years is derived quite logically from the fact that verse 27 states that the sacrifice and oblation will be caused to cease in the midst of the 70th week.

It is scriptural and more logical for 69th 'week' to finish at the Crucifixion. Not 3 1/2 years before it.
Anyway the [or maybe we should all use teh?] belief of Daniels 70th happening in the first century, is totally refuted by what Daniel 9:27 and 11:31 tell us will actually happen at the mid point. It is NOT teh Crucifixion!

 

[jgr]

Your post is an excellent example of demagoguery.

Prove it untrue.

 

[jgr]

My futurist view is Endtimes Eventism. Nothing to do with coming from Ribera.

Your endtimes eventist futurism is a mirror image of modernist dispensational counterfeit Riberan futurism.

The two are indistinguishable.

 

[Douggg]

Your endtimes eventist futurism is a mirror image of modernist dispensational counterfeit Riberan futurism.

The two are indistinguishable.

Do a copy and paste of portions directly from an english translation of Ribera's 500 page commentary on Revelation to substantiate your claim. That corresponds to the 9 principles of Endtimes Eventism.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

My futurist view is Endtimes Eventism. Nothing to do with coming from Ribera.

Your historist/futurist view is Seventh Day Adventism. Rooted in the reformers beliefs about the Pope/papacy being the Antichrist/beast - yes or no?

Historist as my avatar says. Yes the little horn is the papal religious system which is what the reformers preached.

Yes I follow the teachings of the reformers.

Why would you make the above statement about SDA when that is what I declare I am below my avatar.

 

[Douggg]

Historist as my avatar says. Yes the little horn is the papal religious system which is what the reformers preached.

I overlooked. I went back and edited my post to say Historist.

 

[DavidPT]

Because of this, you have been one of the greatest recruiting tools for Amil.

LOL. You would think that should be a good thing then, assuming Amil is the camp one should really be in since the Bible allegedly supports it, not Premil. I don't even support the idea of animal sacrricficing post the 2nd coming like some other Premils do, yet you insist I do more to cause Premils to switch to Amil than they even do. Wow. That aside though, name one or more former Premils since you have known me that has since switched to Amil, former Premils you and I would both know. When I initially encountered Eric and Dave T, both of them were already Amils, so you can't credit that to me as for why they switched to Amil instead, not that you are. And since it can't be neither of them, what other former Premils are you referring to?

 

[jgr]

Do a copy and paste of portions directly from an english translation of Ribera's 500 page commentary on Revelation to substantiate your claim. That corresponds to the 9 principles of Endtimes Eventism.

I don't happen to have an English translation of Ribera's commentary, so can't help you with the copy/paste.

However, I do happen to have, and believe, the testimony of futurist Clarence Larkin:

"The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such and hold that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel’s Seventy Weeks.” . . . In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and among Protestants. . . ., The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

Clarence Larkin, Dispensational Truth

Has not EE "referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future"?

 

[jgr]

I overlooked. I went back and edited my post to say Historist.

The word is "historicist".

Like the word is "futurist", not "futist".

 

[Douggg]

.

 

[Douggg]

The word is "historicist".

Like the word is "futurist", not "futist".

I'll let you and One Happy Camper argue it out.

"Historist as my avatar says." post #146.

At least he has a reference in his screen-name. You have nothing.

 

[Douggg]

I don't happen to have an English translation of Ribera's commentary, so can't help you with the copy/paste.

Then provide a link to the English translation of Ribera's commentary on Revelation. You are claiming that futurists are basing their beliefs of what Ribera wrote. I am saying to you NO futurist on this forum or site have ever read Ribera's commentary.

Nor any historicist.

 

[jgr]

Then provide a link to the English translation of Ribera's commentary on Revelation. You are claiming that futurists are basing their beliefs of what Ribera wrote. I am saying to you NO futurist on this forum or site have ever read Ribera's commentary.

Nor any historicist.

I'm willing to believe the testimonies of those who did read him.

 

[Douggg]

I'm willing to believe the testimonies of those who did read him.

But you are making a claim that futurists here base their beliefs from ribera - when no-one here in this forum has even read ribera to get their beliefs from him. You yourself haven't even read ribera. You have read the Endtimes Eventism threads and its 9 principles though.

 

[jgr]

But you are making a claim that futurists here base their beliefs from ribera - when no-one here in this forum has even read ribera to get their beliefs from him. You yourself haven't even read ribera. You have read the Endtimes Eventism threads and its 9 principles though.

Larkin was a futurist.

Larkin got his futurism from Ribera.

Do futurists here agree with Larkin's futurism?

The issue is not your EE nuances.

The issue is the overarching dogma of futurism.

Ribera is identified with it.

 

[Douggg]

Larkin was a futurist.

Larkin got his futurism from Ribera.

Do futurists here agree with Larkin's futurism?

The issue is not your EE nuances.

The issue is the overarching dogma of futurism.

Ribera is identified with it.

You are making an unsubstantiated claim because no futurist at this forum, nor historiicist has read ribera, to take their eschatology from.

 

[harmonicaman]

Historist as my avatar says. Yes the little horn is the papal religious system which is what the reformers preached.

Yes I follow the teachings of the reformers.

Why would you make the above statement about SDA when that is what I declare I am below my avatar.

Are there any verses in prophecy that specifically identify the papal system as the little horn or anything else like the beast with two horns, the harlot, Babylon the Great, or any of the beast? I'd like to see them. I've never found ONE!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Are there any verses in prophecy that specifically identify the papal system as the little horn or anything else like the beast with two horns, the harlot, Babylon the Great, or any of the beast? I'd like to see them. I've never found ONE!

So glad you asked

Daniel's dream describes a little horn that arises from among the ten horns of the fourth terrible beast. The little horn power represents the Antichrist and is described in Daniel's dream with great detail so that we can clearly identify who this end-time enemy will be. Since we don't want to make any mistake, it is essential that we correctly identify this power.

Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:
(click on the following to read more detail)
1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

The Antichrist power has to fulfill all of the characteristics given in the Bible. It cannot meet only some of them. Thirteen times in the above articles, we see how the papal system qualifies for all the identifying points of the little horn power of Daniel 7, as sad and shocking as it may seem. It is essential that we realize that the Bible is not dealing with individuals, but with a religious and political system that for more than 1500 years has claimed the power to control the planet’s conscience. Moreover, for a set time, it had power to enforce its decrees and to persecute all who chose to obey God and His Word

Identifying the Antichrist | Prophecy of Daniel | Religious and Political System

Here is an easy to read study also

Unsealing Daniels Mysteries – Lesson 7 – Kingdoms in Collision – It Is Written

 

[Douggg]

So glad you asked

Daniel's dream describes a little horn that arises from among the ten horns of the fourth terrible beast. The little horn power represents the Antichrist and is described in Daniel's dream with great detail so that we can clearly identify who this end-time enemy will be. Since we don't want to make any mistake, it is essential that we correctly identify this power.

Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:
(click on the following to read more detail)
1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

The Antichrist power has to fulfill all of the characteristics given in the Bible. It cannot meet only some of them. Thirteen times in the above articles, we see how the papal system qualifies for all the identifying points of the little horn power of Daniel 7, as sad and shocking as it may seem. It is essential that we realize that the Bible is not dealing with individuals, but with a religious and political system that for more than 1500 years has claimed the power to control the planet’s conscience. Moreover, for a set time, it had power to enforce its decrees and to persecute all who chose to obey God and His Word

Identifying the Antichrist | Prophecy of Daniel | Religious and Political System

Here is an easy to read study also

Unsealing Daniels Mysteries – Lesson 7 – Kingdoms in Collision – It Is Written

I would like to ask a question of SDA eschatology.

In Revelation 17:16, the ten kings who rule with the beast, destroy the harlot with fire.

And the ten kings give their kingdom to the beast, Revelation 17:17.

Who is the harlot that the ten kings destroy? And who is the beast, that the ten kings give their kingdom to?

_________________________________________________________________

The link you provided was not clear, reading their commentary, when I used the search feature on Revelation 17. The site does indicate ten European nations, which I agree to in general, albeit it is ten leaders of the EU and not necessarily ten nations. I don't want to argue over that particular point.