7 Day creation- literal or figurative?

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

The earth became without form or void.

That's right. Something that had never existed before became. Your understanding is that something that did exist before became. As in changed from one thing to another.

That the heavens 'became' before the earth, is only if you believe that God would only speak in order of creation. However, the account is fairly clear that the stars and sun and moon 'became' on the fourth day of God's work of creating. The Scriptures declare that the heavens declare the glory of God not the earth, not man. God may well have laid out His summary statement in order of how He perceived the glory of His creating.

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them,...

This statement tells us without any equivocation that in the span of six days God made the heavens (plural), the earth, the sea......and all that is in them. All that is in the heavens; all that is in the earth; all that is in the sea. God made all these billions, trillions, gazillion things in the span of six days.......and then He rested.

On the sixth of those six days, God created the first man to inhabitat the realm He had created in the previous five days and He called that singular man, Adam. God created that first man out of the dust of the ground and then that man, Adam, had a son who Adam and his wife named Seth. From the time that God had created the first man, Adam, and the birth of Seth, 130 years (that would be trips around the sun) passed. Then God, through His Scriptures accounts for us the years of particular future sons of Adam's progeny. If we continue on through the Scriptures taking account of all the evidences found within them of the passing of time, we are able to determine about how many years have passed upon the earth from the day that God created the first man, Adam.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

Isn't it amazing.

It is like if your wish have miraculously come to reality!
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/gen001.htm

I believe that a complete copy of the written word of God, must be written in the letters of three languages. Like the letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew of the superscription nailed to the cross with Jesus; the KJV Bible is written in Hebrew, and Greek, and English. Luke 23:38 & John 19:20.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/index.htm

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

The earth became without form or void.

That's right. Something that had never existed before became. Your understanding is that something that did exist before became. As in changed from one thing to another.

That the heavens 'became' before the earth, is only if you believe that God would only speak in order of creation. However, the account is fairly clear that the stars and sun and moon 'became' on the fourth day of God's work of creating. The Scriptures declare that the heavens declare the glory of God not the earth, not man. God may well have laid out His summary statement in order of how He perceived the glory of His creating.

For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them,...

This statement tells us without any equivocation that in the span of six days God made the heavens (plural), the earth, the sea......and all that is in them. All that is in the heavens; all that is in the earth; all that is in the sea. God made all these billions, trillions, gazillion things in the span of six days.......and then He rested.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

All that will be replaced by a new heaven and a new Earth and will not be remembered nor come into mind.
Revelation 21
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind

 

[ALoveDivine]

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." - Exodus 20:11

The six day creation must be literal, because God plainly says he created the universe in six days. Even if you could read Genesis 1 and 2 figuratively, such as is proposed by the framework hypothesis, you still run into the insurmountable obstacle of reconciling that view with Exodus 20:11. The context of the passage very clearly shows that the subject is regular 24 hour days. God says he made everything in six of these. If you believe the bible is inerrant, I don't see how you can believe God didn't create everything in six days.

Do I understand how to reconcile this truth with the scientific evidence? Nope. Nor do I much care. I believe the bible is the word of God and without error, therefore since God says he created everything in six days, it must be true, regardless of what the wisdom of man says.

 

[Riberra]

On the sixth of those six days, God created the first man to inhabitat the realm He had created in the previous five days and He called that singular man, Adam. God created that first man out of the dust of the ground and then that man, Adam, had a son who Adam and his wife named Seth. From the time that God had created the first man, Adam, and the birth of Seth, 130 years (that would be trips around the sun) passed.

Yep, the Bible tell us that the third child of Adam and Eve was born 130 years after that Adam and Eve conceived Cain and Abel.
The Bible tell us also that ONLY after that SETH was born when Adam was 130 years old, that ADAM and Eve conceived OTHER SONS and DAUGHTERS Genesis 5:3-4

-That pose some problems....Effectively the Bible in Genesis 4:16-26 tell us that Cain find a wife in the Land of Nod, not long after that God punished him...

Then God, through His Scriptures accounts for us the years of particular future sons of Adam's progeny. If we continue on through the Scriptures taking account of all the evidences found within them of the passing of time, we are able to determine about how many years have passed upon the earth from the day that God created the first man, Adam.

The genealogy of Adam tell us about creation of ADAM in the GARDEN OF EDEN about 6,000 years ago.

But if you read about the humans/mankind [males and females] who were created by God on the 6th day after the animal kind you will notice that they were not created in a Garden to till the ground ...God commanded the animals and the humans males and females [mankind]of the 6th day to be fruitful and multiply and to subdue the Earth.

ADAM AND EVE were rather slow in the action of reproducing....
It took them 130 years after that Cain and Abel were born to bare their third child SETH, Genesis 5:3-4.

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

No, no, no. The Scriptures say nothing about how old Adam was when Cain and Abel were conceived or born. What they tell us was that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born. Yes, Adam and Eve had other children, but whether they were all conceived after Seth we don't know.

Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man.” Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

What we know from this is that sometime after Adam and Eve were created they had sexual relations that first led to Cain's birth and then sometime after that they again had a child named Abel. We don't know that even at this time Cain and Abel were their only children. Eve speaks of having a man, but that wouldn't necessarily mean that she hadn't previously had female children. There could have been three or four girls and Eve rejoiced that God had given her, finally, a male child. A child to carry on the family line. In ancient Judaism, as in many other cultures, having a male child was very important. That could well be why Eve gave thanks to God for a male child. Of course, this is all conjecture and I readily admit that. Just as much conjecture as some of the claims that you are making.

Yes, there came a time that Cain took one of the daughters of Adam and Eve to be his wife. The rest of what you wrote is pure conjecture. God made 'them' Adam and Eve, male and female. The Scriptures do later tell us that Adam was the first man. Paul writes to Timothy that Adam was 'formed' first, and then Eve. We can make conjectures as much as we like, but we can only be sure of what the Scriptures tell us. The rest is conjecture coming from the minds of wicked men such as myself.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted.

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

No, no, no. The Scriptures say nothing about how old Adam was when Cain and Abel were conceived or born.

We don't know that even at this time Cain and Abel were their only children.

Based on the Bible, God created Adam and Eve young adults and fully functional.
Their FIRST sexual relation is mentioned in Genesis 4:1-2 and their second sexual relation is mentioned in Genesis 4:25-26 .

Thus the mystery remain about the origin of Cain's wife .

 

[Kenneth Redden]

It is like if your wish have miraculously come to reality!
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/gen001.htm


http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/index.htm

Amazing, isn't it.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." - Exodus 20:11

The six day creation must be literal, because God plainly says he created the universe in six days. Even if you could read Genesis 1 and 2 figuratively, such as is proposed by the framework hypothesis, you still run into the insurmountable obstacle of reconciling that view with Exodus 20:11. The context of the passage very clearly shows that the subject is regular 24 hour days. God says he made everything in six of these. If you believe the bible is inerrant, I don't see how you can believe God didn't create everything in six days.

Do I understand how to reconcile this truth with the scientific evidence? Nope. Nor do I much care. I believe the bible is the word of God and without error, therefore since God says he created everything in six days, tit must be true, regardless of what the wisdom of man says.

Good; I do, too. However, have you ever tried to reconcile your concepts with 2 Peter 3:8? One day, as a thousand years and 24 hour days must reconcile.

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

As I explained, Cain's wife was a daughter of Adam and Eve. Your assumption that Adam and Eve only had two times of sexual relations because the Scriptures only speak of two, is exactly that...an assumption. Now, the Scriptures that we hold today place a comma where it says after a particular father was so old he had a certain son, comma and they then had other children. However, there were no such grammatical devices in the original Hebrew. Words just ran together and where we find all the commas and periods in the Scriptures, they have been placed their by translators. In an attempt to make the Scriptures more understandable in modern language. But...

As you agreed, Adam and Eve had other children. Now, it is your assumption that all those other children must have come after Seth. That assumption is likely based on the grammatical devices that we now find in the translated Scriptures. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that a pair of people who had been commanded to 'go forth and multiply' waited 130 years to do that after they had already had sexual relations from which Cain and Abel were born. In the original Hebrew we read that a particular father was a certain age after he had a particular son. Then we read that this particular man also had other children. We assume, because we read the word after, which in the original language is only tied to the age of the father when he had a certain child, that it also carries over to the next claim that the father also had other children. Personally, I think if we're going to add a grammatical device there, it should be a period. So that it reads that such and such a father was this age after he had a particular child (period). That father also had other sons and daughters. This would mean that the father having other children is just a statement of fact and not in any way a determinant that these other children came after the child accounted for to give the age of the father after that child's birth.

Just as with Adam and Eve we find the same 'after' statement regarding the other children. But we know for a fact that all these other children did not come after Seth. At least two of them, we know, were born to Adam and Eve before Seth was born.

Secondly, we don't know how long a time passed before Cain killed Abel. The Scriptures just tell us that 'in the course of time' Cain brought an offering of his harvest and Abel brought an offering of animals. How long do you 'assume' passed between the time that Cain and Abel were born and they grew up and came to offer these offerings? You can only guess. We also cannot know how much time passed between their giving of their offerings; the Lord chastising Cain, and then their going out to the field one day where Cain killed Abel. Is it your assumption that they brought the offerings at 3 in the afternoon and then by 5 that same day God chastised Cain and then Cain immediately rushed over to take his brother out into the field to kill him? By 9 that evening of the same day it was all over.

How did Cain know that the Lord did not look on favor to his offerings? Do you suppose that there were immediately rolls of thunder and crashing lightening the moment Cain made his offering? Or that God spoke to him from heaven, 'I don't like your offerings!' the moment they were offered? Or perhaps God sent fire down from heaven to consume Abel's offering, but Cain's sat and rotted in the place where he made his offering? It may well have been months or years before the next step in the story came to pass. Cain made his offering and over the course of time he began to come to understand that he wasn't being blessed as Abel was and found that his offerings weren't acceptable to God. We can't even say, from the evidences of the Scriptures that this particular offering was the first offerings that each one had made to the Lord. All we know is that 'in the course of time' Cain and Abel brought offerings to the Lord. We don't even know if they each offered them to the Lord on the same day. Abel could have made his offerings on one day and then months or years later Cain brought his offering. There is no indication that would lead anyone to believe, with any assurance, that these offerings were made at the same time.

What we can say is that Abel kept flocks and Cain worked the ground. But, for how long had they been doing this before they brought their offerings? All the Scriptures tell us is that it all happened 'in the course of time'. The Scriptures actually use that phrase a few times and it is never understood anywhere else in the Scriptures to be some fairly immediate time. What we can say is that both Cain and Abel brought offerings to the Lord and that the Lord did not look with favor upon Cain's offering. But, we cannot even make an educated guess as to how much time passed from Abel and Cain beginning their jobs as farmer and shepherd, and then their making offerings to the Lord. All we can say is that it came to pass 'in the course of time'.

You see the genealogies are clear as to the passage of years between a man and a specific child that man fathered. However, most everything else we read after the six days accounted for in the creation event, God doesn't give us a time stamp of when things happened. He just tells us that as time progressed these things happened. Adam and Eve may well have had, and I personally believe that they did have, other children before Seth was born. One of those children was a daughter that Cain took to be his wife. There can also be no assured claim that Cain got his wife in Nod. The Scriptures just tell us that Cain went to Nod and the very next sentence we read is that Cain had relations with his wife. It doesn't give any indication as to where that wife came from. Cain may well have been married when he became a farmer. He may have been married when he killed Abel and taken his wife with him when he went to Nod. All we know is that God dealt directly with Cain about the matter, but whether or not Cain was married or had family before he went to Nod is just a guess as far as any evidence of the Scriptures.

We must always be careful in both reading and discerning what the Scriptures tell us and what teachers of the Scriptures tell us. Just as the belief that there were three wise men to visit at Jesus' birth is merely a tradition that has been taught and believed for decades, so too, are some other 'facts' we are taught. Genesis 3 tells us that Eve became the mother of all the living. There is no one alive today who would not, if they were able to obtain such records, be found to be a descendant of Eve. And, by virtue of her being the wife of Adam, could not also find themselves a descendant of Adam.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

As I explained, Cain's wife was a daughter of Adam and Eve. Your assumption that Adam and Eve only had two times of sexual relations because the Scriptures only speak of two, is exactly that...an assumption.

So, you are saying that you don't believe the Scriptures as being inerrant ?
The Bible tell us that Adam and Eve had sex for the first time AFTER being cast out of the Garden of Eden.... Genesis 3 tell us the reason why God cast them out. Is in it revealing that the first thing they have done after being cast out of Eden was making sex----

Secondly, we don't know how long a time passed before Cain killed Abel. The Scriptures just tell us that 'in the course of time' Cain brought an offering of his harvest and Abel brought an offering of animals. How long do you 'assume' passed between the time that Cain and Abel were born and they grew up and came to offer these offerings?

Cain and Abel have made their offerings as soon as they became young adults.They are twin brothers ,then they have made their offering at the same time.

As you agreed, Adam and Eve had other children. Now, it is your assumption that all those other children must have come after Seth. That assumption is likely based on the grammatical devices that we now find in the translated Scriptures. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that a pair of people who had been commanded to 'go forth and multiply' waited 130 years to do that after they had already had sexual relations from which Cain and Abel were born.

We know that God cursed Eve after the fall that He will greatly multiply her sorrow when she will bare children Genesis 3:16....that may explain why she waited 130 years after that she bare Cain and Abel ....she was probably afraid that the next time that she will bare children the pain will be worst.
In her mind sex became something to avoid...until that finally 130 years later ...after that Adam have finally convinced her....

Genesis 3 tells us that Eve became the mother of all the living. There is no one alive today who would not, if they were able to obtain such records, be found to be a descendant of Eve. And, by virtue of her being the wife of Adam, could not also find themselves a descendant of Adam.

Eve became the mother of all the -living- believers in God ....because ultimately Adam and Eve descendants through SETH lineage [Genesis 4:25-26]gave birth to the woman who gave birth to Jesus whom Father is God.

Genesis 4:25-26
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Genesis 5 --- Luke 3:23-38 ---- Matthew 1

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

How long did Adam and Eve live in the garden prior to the fall? The serpent of old, Satan, came to tempt Eve, do you suppose his jealousy was aroused very soon after He saw all that God had created in this new realm or did he wait months, years, decades or centuries? I have looked and looked and can't seem to find the word 'first' attached with their relations. What I do know is that God told them to be fruitful. That infers to me that he wanted them to have a lot of fruit. And, to multiply very, very early on in their existence. Is there some reason that you believe they wouldn't do that for many, many, many years? That they would have two sons only and then after 130 years and an account that one had been killed, start having children again?

I do believe the Scriptures to be inerrant, but I also try not to add my little jots and tittles when I study them. I believe them to be words that are literally breathed from God, given to man through the work of His Holy Spirit. However, when the Scriptures tell me that Adam laid with his wife I understand that as a statement of fact. The fact being that Adam laid with his wife. It doesn't identify in any way that this was the first time that Adam had relations with his wife. Neither does it indicate that it may have been the fourth, fifth or hundredth time that Adam laid with his wife. It merely says that Adam laid with his wife and she conceived from this union a child named Cain and then tells us that Abel came later. No indication at all that between this time in which Cain was born, and later Abel, that there weren't other children born to them in between. It would be an assumption made from evidences not found in the Scriptures that either scenario is the truth of what actually happened between Adam and Eve.

So, my understanding, as far as the evidences found in the Scriptures, is just as likely as yours. However, my understanding does fit with Cain getting a wife from the woman who we are told was the mother of all the living. Yours doesn't. Your understanding says that Cain got a wife from people who came from some other mother and father created by God when He formed Adam and Eve who were not children of the mother of all the living. That is an assumption that doesn't fit with all the facts found in the Scriptures, and in fact, means that the statement that Eve was the mother of all the living is not a true statement.

Listen, we weren't there. All we have are the facts that God has given us through His Scriptures. Everything that we believe about those days must fit with those facts. As I understand it, and in keeping with the facts found in the Scriptures, Cain's wife must have come from Eve. All the people that Cain was afraid would do him harm after killing Abel must also have come from the mother of all the living, if we are to believe that statement is a truthful fact. This would also offer some explanation as to why these other people would want to harm Cain...he had killed one of their brothers. God may well have only singled out Cain and Abel because there was a story to tell about how a great wickedness came to pass on the earth. How all the other progeny of Adam and Eve may have gotten along together well, but for Cain, he harbored hate in his heart which conceived murder. We don't know and can only make guesses, assumptions and conjecture about the actual reality of the passing of the first years of existence upon the earth.

We don't know how long Cain and Abel had lived before the murder was committed. We know that they were adults and had been working the fields and keeping flocks. They may likely have been doing this for some time and Adam may have been near 130 years old when Cain killed Abel. We honestly haven't a shred of evidence as to how much time passed as these events unfolded. We can only bring up assumptions and conjectures. But, those assumptions and conjectures must fit with the facts that we do have. I personally believe that one of the most important facts that we must hold to, when trying to understand where all these other people came from, is that the Scriptures do tell us that Eve became the mother of all the living. So, I start from that foundation and try to align my assumptions and conjectures with that Scriptural fact.

Now, your argument that Eve's becoming the mother of all the living refers to her being in the lineage of Jesus does have some merit. I will have to pray upon that and seek the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. However, it isn't what I understand the statement to be inferring. However, your claim that Eve may have been fearful of giving birth because of the pain that God attached to childbirth when He cursed them doesn't necessarily hold water. According to the timeline as written of the curse and then the births of Cain and Abel, their births were after the curse was applied. So, Eve already knew the pain of childbirth. It would seem that if the pain was her deterrent, then she likely wouldn't have had Abel.

This is why I believe that the fall likely came very shortly after the creation event. Satan was jealous of all that God had made. God had made an entire realm of existence for new creatures that He was giving at least some of His time to. Satan may have very quickly gone into the garden to tempt Eve into the same disobedience that he had allowed in his relationship with his Creator. However, that is offered as conjecture and I readily admit that. We don't really know.

I believe that God created this realm of existence in six fairly regular days just as we have today. With a day being defined as a simple rotation of the earth. Which is still today what determines the length of time of a day. All this talk of there not being a sun or moon doesn't really have any bearing on what actually defines the period of a day. They are merely what we now know to define the periods of a day that are daylight and nighttime. But, they actually have no bearing on the length or passing of 'days'. The sun and the moon could scatter to the farthest ends of the universe right now, and days would still pass upon the earth. They would be difficult for we mere mortals to keep track of because we would then have to find some other light in the cosmos to record the spinning of the earth, but days would pass nevertheless. This is, of course, why God told us that He created the sun and the moon and other stars. So that we mere mortals could keep track of days and seasons and times.

Yes, I absolutely believe that the Scriptures are inerrant in all that they tell us.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

I haven't yet offered prayers and supplication for wisdom and understanding regarding your teaching that the reference to Eve as the mother of all the living means that she was in the lineage of Jesus, the one who came to give life abundantly, but...

I did read over what was written and I am struck by the fact that the Scriptures make the claim that Adam was the one to name his wife Eve. God named Adam and we know that God knows the end from the beginning, but Adam named Eve and I don't hold that he was quite so omniscient. Is it your contention that Adam knew that Jesus would come? There honestly doesn't seem to be any evidence to support that found in the Scriptures.

However, Adam would have known, if they were the only two created in the beginning, that all the living would come from Eve. That she was then, and would always be, the mother of all the living. Excepting, of course, themselves.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

How long did Adam and Eve live in the garden prior to the fall? The serpent of old, Satan, came to tempt Eve, do you suppose his jealousy was aroused very soon after He saw all that God had created in this new realm or did he wait months, years, decades or centuries?

Probably no more than one or two months... as soon as the run time was established.Remember that Adam and Eve were created young adults fully functional.The run time was easy ,they had the right to eat the fruits of every trees of the Garden except from one tree....

That is God who allowed Satan to enter into garden ...the whole thing was a test prepared by God to see if they will obey God command or Satan, with the consequence that we know.

I have looked and looked and can't seem to find the word 'first' attached with their relations. What I do know is that God told them to be fruitful. That infers to me that he wanted them to have a lot of fruit. And, to multiply very, very early on in their existence. Is there some reason that you believe they wouldn't do that for many, many, many years? That they would have two sons only and then after 130 years and an account that one had been killed, start having children again?

That is where the account of the creation of the humans of the 6 Th Day and the creation of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden differs.
-To the Humans created on the 6Th day God COMMANDED them to be fruitful and multiply and also that they can eat the fruits of EVERY trees.

-To Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden the only COMMAND made by God was that they cannot eat the fruit of a certain tree because if they eat the fruit of that tree of the knowledge of good and evil they will surely die.

Two different but complementary accounts ...

This is why I believe that the fall likely came very shortly after the creation
event.

Exactly,possibly one or two months after that God created Adam and Eve and placed them in the garden of Eden. Which mean that Adam and Eve cannot possibly had children before Cain and Abel.

Satan was jealous of all that God had made. God had made an entire realm of existence for new creatures that He was giving at least some of His time to. Satan may have very quickly gone into the garden to tempt Eve into the same disobedience that he had allowed in his relationship with his Creator. However, that is offered as conjecture and I readily admit that. We don't really know.

Satan was jealous because Satan had lost his position of power upon the World that then was ....but Satan have retaken his position of power after the fall of Adam and Eve -upon the world which is NOW.-

That is all explained in details with Biblical reference in the page linked below
But you are not allowed to read it , or you will be changed into a statue of salt.You have been warned.
http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2009/11/world-that-then-was-first-earth-age.html

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

Again with the conjecture. It's ok to have conjectures, but they need to be identified as such and cannot be stated as facts. You don't have any evidence whatsoever that God tempted Eve by sending him to her as some sort of test of her obedience. The only time we know of that God allowed Satan, or claimed to have had some hand in Satan's work against someone was with Job and it was Satan who approached God about it and claimed that if God would remove his hand from Job and allow him (Satan) to go after him that he, too, would curse God. In that instance God seems to have said, "ok, go after him and we'll see." Satan was wrong!

The rest of your claim is pretty much conjecture also. Looking at your referenced site, I can see where you get your information. That writer pretty much lost me when he made the opening claim that he personally believes that the teaching of a young earth creation is the reason for most unbelief today. He apparently hasn't done much discerning of the Scriptures, nor does he have even the slightest inkling of the hearts of men.

Friend, Jesus, the Son of the living God who has all wisdom and all knowledge, came to visit the earth about 2,000 years ago. He spent some three years going throughout Israel, his Father's own people, trying to tell them the truth of things. When he was hung on that cross, most of Israel, even though they had all witnessed the Son of the living God living and teaching amongst themselves, didn't believe Jesus was who he said that he was. Even today one of Judaism's main tenets is that Jesus is not the Messiah. And as far as we know, Jesus spoke very little about the age of the creation. Men don't believe the truth because they have loved the lie. Part of that lie is that we all know that the simple understanding of the reasonably clear teaching of the beginnings of the Scriptures is not the truth. Just as your writer goes on to attempt to point out.

We all know that God did not start off by creating a perfect realm of existence for man. No! Not at all! God first created an empty and barren universe that spun around for no apparent reason for hundreds of thousands of millions of years before He ever got around to doing it right. That's the truth! ( for those unable to discern my sarcasm let me assure you that those last sentences were written with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

Look, believe what you will. Everyone does. We all believe what we have convinced ourselves is the truth. I am firmly convinced and convicted that this realm in which we live; all those stars and planets and asteroids that we see out in the cosmos and all the ground under our feet and the vegetation that grows from it and the people that live upon it, didn't exist somewhere around 6,000 years ago. And I can tell you that I am not about to be swayed by someone making an argument that opens with, 'the reason for today's unbelief is this teaching of a young creation.' That person hasn't the slightest understanding of God, the Scriptures, and the wicked and deceitful hearts of men.


God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If we weren't created,

we wouldn't be here !

 

[Riberra]

If we weren't created,

we wouldn't be here !

Who said that we had not been created ?

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

Again with the conjecture. It's ok to have conjectures, but they need to be identified as such and cannot be stated as facts. You don't have any evidence whatsoever that God tempted Eve by sending him to her as some sort of test of her obedience.

Can you explain why God was not present in the Garden at that moment ?
Answer ---because God knew that Satan will profit of God's absence to enter the Garden....

I have not said that that God have planned something with Satan to tempt Eve .I only said that God allowed Satan to enter into the Garden...

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

What you said was 'that the whole thing was a test prepared by God'. So, perhaps more clarification is needed as to exactly what you meant as 'the whole thing was a test prepared by God. Exactly where does 'whole thing' end and begin in the account. I honestly have a hard time reading that the 'whole thing' was a test prepared by God and then read of your equivocating as to whether or not God planned the 'whole thing'. Sounds like pretty basic double speak to me.

No, I cannot give any factual explanation of anything about God beyond what He tells me about Himself and His actions. I may make several conjectures, but I can't, with any assurance, tell you that anything I say about God, that is not supported in the Scriptures, is true. I can make a feeble human attempt to reason out some situation, but I fully understand that any such reasoning, unless supported by actual facts, is not necessarily going to be correct. And I also fully understand that any such reasoning is likely going to be flawed because it comes from a man with a wicked heart. A man who thinks as a man and not as God. What I know is that His ways are not my ways and His thought are not my thoughts. Does that help at all?

However, setting all of the discussion on this matter aside for the moment, do you believe that the biggest reason that people don't come to faith in God is that some very, very small sect of christians is teaching that the creation is young? I mean let's look at the facts. Most of the largest denominations of christians neither believe nor teach any longer a young creation model of our existence. The catholic organization doesn't and most of those protestant denominations that came from it. Some baptist and some Holiness fellowships do still teach it and you'll likely find it in some non-denom fellowships. However, it has been my experience that more and more fellowships are shying away from such teaching. My question,, of course, is whether that means the world is becoming more and more godly or whether as Paul seems to tell us, it means that the world is doing exactly what has always been warned and prophesied that it would do? Becoming more and more wicked in its renouncing of the truth of God.

God bless you,
In Christ Ted

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

What you said was 'that the whole thing was a test prepared by God'. So, perhaps more clarification is needed as to exactly what you meant as 'the whole thing was a test prepared by God. Exactly where does 'whole thing' end and begin in the account. I honestly have a hard time reading that the 'whole thing' was a test prepared by God and then read of your equivocating as to whether or not God planned the 'whole thing'. Sounds like pretty basic double speak to me.

The whole thing about the Garden of Eden ...The -obedience test- begin with God command to not eat of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden [the tree of the knowledge of good and evil Genesis 2:16-17] and end with the expulsion of Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden after that Eve and Adam disobeyed God [Genesis 3:4-24].