7 Day creation- literal or figurative?

[Kenneth Redden]

There is a telling of days beginning Jeremiah 4:23, which uses “without form and void” and "had no light" as connectors, to both recipients and to both arguments pushed by the KJV Bible. "Heavens,” is root word.

 

[Riberra]

There is a telling of days beginning in Jeremiah 4:23 with, “without form and void” and "had no light" with “heavens” as the root word.

If you read Jeremiah 4:23-25 you will realize that it talk about a destruction at a time that there was no man ...
Jeremiah 4:24
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jeremiah 4:25
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. ...That is the destruction of the world that then was mentioned in
2 Peter 3:5-6
5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished
=
Genesis 1:2
2 And the earth BECAME without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


I have provided a study demonstrating with Scriptures that God have not created the Earth without form and void .It seem that you have missed it.*
The word WAS in Genesis 1:2 And the earth WAS without form, and void-is a mistranslation from the Hebrew word . The original meaning in that context means BECAME.
And the earth BECAME without form, and void


*HERE IT IS AGAIN:
http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2009/11/world-that-then-was-first-earth-age.html

 

[Kenneth Redden]

If you read Jeremiah 4:23-25 you will realize that it talk about a destruction at a time that there was no man ....

The telling of days in Jeremiah 4:23 begins on the first day, after Adam dies in Genesis 5:5; hence, "there was no man," in Jeremiah 4:25. The second day may begin Genesis 6:1.

Jeremiah 4:24
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

The “mountains” and the “hills” are an answer to Proverbs 8:25, in the telling of days by the Spirit of God, beginning Proverbs 8:22 and "works," is the root word.

Jeremiah 4:25
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. ...That is the destruction of the world that then was mentioned in
2 Peter 3:5-6
5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished

Yes; the second day, beginning Genesis 6:1

Genesis 1:2
2 And the earth BECAME without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


I have provided a study demonstrating with Scriptures that God have not created the Earth without form and void .It seem that you have missed it.*
The word WAS in Genesis 1:2 And the earth WAS without form, and void-is a mistranslation from the Hebrew word . The original meaning in that context means BECAME.
And the earth BECAME without form, and void

My faith rests in the King James Version of the Bible, verbatim, as is. Not a single character may be changed in any way.

 

[Riberra]

My faith rests in the King James Version of the Bible, verbatim, as is. Not a single character may be changed, in any way.

The KJV is by far the best ENGLISH TRANSLATION but that is not the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE into which the OLD TESTAMENT was written.

Hebrew is the original language of the Old Testament [the Pentateuch/Torah] .

Here the definition of the Hebrew word hayah

hayah is Word 1961 from Strongs KJV Hebrew to English concordance

hayah
haw-yaw


a primitive root (compare 'hava'' (1933)); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.

Source:
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRHEB19.htm#S1961

Or see:
biblehub
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm
hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be.
Original Word: הָיָה. Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: hayah. Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw)

-----------------
Or see the translation from the Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT)
English text under the Hebrew letters.
NOTE Transliteration is for identification of the letters - NOT phonetic
Index:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

 

[Kenneth Redden]

The KJV is by far the best ENGLISH TRANSLATION but that is not the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE into which the OLD TESTAMENT was written.

Hebrew is the original language of the Old Testament [the Pentateuch/Torah] .

Here the definition of the Hebrew word hayah

hayah is Word 1961 from Strongs KJV Hebrew to English concordance

hayah
haw-yaw


a primitive root (compare 'hava'' (1933)); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):--beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.

Source:
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRHEB19.htm#S1961

Or see:
biblehub
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm
hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be.
Original Word: הָיָה. Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: hayah. Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw)

-----------------
Or see the translation from the Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT)
English text under the Hebrew letters.
NOTE Transliteration is for identification of the letters - NOT phonetic
Index:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

I believe that a complete copy of the written word of God, must be written in the letters of three languages. Like the letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew of the superscription nailed to the cross with Jesus; the KJV Bible is written in Hebrew, and Greek, and English. Luke 23:38 & John 19:20.

 

[miamited]

Hi guys,

I'm always sadly humored by those who stumble and trip over the words and their intentions and meanings in the book of the beginnings. Great debates are held and points expounded upon ad infinitum. All sorts of different meanings and understandings are proposed and researched and each one finding some root of truth based on the individual's personal perspective and understanding.

And yet, God clarified it all in the law to His people. No one ever brings up the place of inclusion in the law where God clearly and simply declares that He made all things in this realm in six days. Both the earth and its 'heaven' (sky); the stars and its 'heaven' (universe).

Throughout the account of the beginnings the Scriptures refer to the 'heavens' (plural) that God made during the six day period of the creation. God also resides within a 'heaven'. Therefore, there are three heavens. The earth and the atmosphere which surrounds it is one heaven. The place where all the stars are displayed in their vast array of glory is the second heaven. God's abode is the third heaven. However, God's heaven is not being referred to in the plurality of the 'heavens' which He created in the six days of the creation of the realm in which we live. That plurality is merely the 'heaven' of the stars and all their vast array and the 'heaven' of the earth.

Our misunderstanding is likely caused by the fact that we don't fully understand what the word 'heaven' means. It is a vast expanse of area in which things exist. God established that man exists in a small area of the creation and He calls that expanse of man's existence a 'heaven'. He also established that the stars and other celestial bodies exist in another expanse and He calls that expanse 'heaven'. He also established the great expanse in which He and all the angels exist, and yes, He calls that place 'heaven'. So, there are three heavens.

Paul is telling us that he knew a man who was taken up to the very place of God's existence: the third heaven.

Now, I realize that many won't agree with this explanation and understanding. That's ok, but I did want to put it out there for others who may be following along with these explanations that seem to claim that 'heavens' refers to times of existence rather than merely the different places of existence.

God bless you all,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

Now, I realize that many won't agree with this explanation and understanding. That's ok, but I did want to put it out there for others who may be following along with these explanations that seem to claim that 'heavens' refers to times of existence rather than merely the different places of existence.

God bless you all,
In Christ, Ted

'Heavens' refers to different places of existence and refers also to different times of existence .

The Heavens and the Earth into which we live will not be remembered nor come into mind,and will be replaced by new heavens and a new Earth.The same have happened to the world that then was.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind = Revelation 21:1

Revelation 21:1
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[Riberra]

2 Corinthians 12:4 looks like the heaven and the earth of the third day. So, it's very simple; third heaven, third day. We mustn't complicate things which aren't complicated.

Your simplicity makes things more complicated.God and the angels does not reside in the atmosphere of the Earth where the planes and birds fly.

 

[Riberra]

I believe that a complete copy of the written word of God, must be written in the letters of three languages. Like the letters of Greek and Latin, and Hebrew of the superscription nailed on the cross with Jesus. The KJV Bible is written in Hebrew, and Greek and English. Luke 23:38 & John 19:20.

Are you able to read Hebrew, Greek and Latin ?
Here it is :
Polyglot Bible Index
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/

Here a great tool also.
Original Hebrew to English.Check out Genesis1:2 for starter.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Are you able to read Hebrew, Greek and Latin ?
Here it is :
Polyglot Bible Index
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/

Here a great tool also.
Original Hebrew to English.Check out Genesis1:2 for starter.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

I can read and understand English, and that appears to be enough.

 

[Riberra]

I can read and understand English, and that appears to be enough.

I see!That's why English is also included + a lexicon .All that in a click.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/gen001.htm

 

[Riberra]

I believe 2 Peter 3:3-8 is a doublet of the days in Genesis one, which is the method Paul uses to navigate the King James Version of the Bible.

Are you saying that Paul learned that method from PETER?
2 Peter 3:3-8 was written by PETER not by Paul.

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

As I admitted, I understand that not everyone would agree. I also understand that different uses of the word 'heaven' may well refer to different places and that different places referred to as 'heaven' may exist at different times. However, that doesn't have any bearing on my explanation.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

As I admitted, I understand that not everyone would agree. I also understand that different uses of the word 'heaven' may well refer to different places and that different places referred to as 'heaven' may exist at different times. However, that doesn't have any bearing on my explanation.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

Do you agree that Genesis 1:1 tell us about the moment in time when God created the Heaven and the Earth perfect and fully functional?....

Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

I agree that the posted verse does refer to God creating all that is in and on the earth and the universe that comprise this realm of His creating. Yes, I agree that it refers to a time when all those things were created.

However, it is odd that different translators translated this particular passage in two ways. Some use the word 'heaven' and some 'heavens'. This same oddity is found in Exodus 20. So, I just want to go on record that I don't believe that this passage refers to the 'heaven' in which God resides.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

So, I just want to go on record that I don't believe that this passage refers to the 'heaven' in which God resides.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

Effectively ...Genesis 1:1 talk about the Creation by God of the physical universe the COSMOS which include the stars, and the Earth who was created by God fully functional and habitable right there at that moment....

Genesis 1:2 talk about the Earth who BECAME a WASTE and a RUIN totally submerged with waters....
-------

See the KJV English/Hebrew lexicon [click on the little Numbers]to see the words in the original Hebrew and their meanings.
Here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/gen001.htm

2 And the earth776 /was/BECAME1961 without form,8414 and void;922 and darkness2822 was upon5921 the face6440 of the deep.8415 And the Spirit7307 of God430 moved7363 upon5921 the face6440 of the waters.4325

 

[miamited]

Hi riberra,

No, I don't read the second verse that way. Genesis 1:1 speaks as a summary statement that in the beginning of the this realm God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 begins to expose the details of the steps that explain in what manner God accomplished Genesis 1:1. He created the earth, the actual physical planet first. There was nothing else in all of the universe but the planet Earth spinning on its axis covered in water. As we continue through the next few verses God explains to us each step that He took to accomplish the summary statement of Genesis 1:1.

In other words, no, I don't agree that some form of the earth existed before the day spoken of in Genesis 1:2. Neither do I believe or agree that any form of other heavenly bodies that we see comprised as the universe today, existed before God's creating them during the fourth rotation (day) of the earth.

I believe this for three reasons. Number 1, I believe that God created this entire realm of existence for nothing more than man to have life. So, there is no purpose in some earthly planet existing before God began to set in motion that plan of creating man. There is no reason that some planet spun around in the universe for millions or billions of years prior to God's setting out to create a realm in which man could exist. Number 2, the God I believe in can do what man would say is impossible. Number 3, Exodus 20 tells me that God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them in six days. It doesn't say remade or refabricated and it is a clear testimony to the power, glory, wisdom and love of my Father.


God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

Hi riberra,

No, I don't read the second verse that way. Genesis 1:1 speaks as a summary statement that in the beginning of the this realm God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 begins to expose the details of the steps that explain in what manner God accomplished Genesis 1:1. He created the earth, the actual physical planet first. There was nothing else in all of the universe

That interpretation contradict the words of God who said that The Heaven ie the COSMOS came first in the order of creation of the physical universe -and [after] the Earth.
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

If the Earth have been created first the wording would rather go this way
1 ''In the beginning God created the EARTH and the heaven.''

 

[Kenneth Redden]

I see!That's why English is also included + a lexicon .All that in a click.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/gen001.htm

Isn't it amazing.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Are you saying that Paul learned that method from PETER?
2 Peter 3:3-8 was written by PETER not by Paul.

No, Peter learned from Paul and 2 Peter 3:15 uses the word, "also," as a link to the stars, in Genesis 1:16.