Left Behind or Led Astray: History of the Pretrib Rapture doctrine
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
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It was scriptural prior to those books and movies, it was scriptural during, and it is scriptural now. No matter what LaHaye ever did or said, none of it has any bearing on that reality, for good or bad. The truth of the pre-trib rapture has never hinged on LaHaye.
The error that modern Jews would come to salvation outside of the Church was the original doctrine taught by Darby, Scofield, and Larkin, as seen below in the presentation by Pastor John Otis.
Read the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost to confirm the above.
Dr. Pentecost was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary and a proponent of modern Dispensational Theology.
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Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Joh_16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
Rom_5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
Rom_8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom_12:12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
2Co_1:4 who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2Co_7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.
1Th_3:4 For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.
Rev_1:9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Rev_2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Genesis of Dispensational Theology
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
Left Behind or Led Astray?
Good Fight Ministries
http://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/
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Fake news.
The rapture is a myth amongst brother and sister Christians. It's a secondary issue that can be vigorously debated but should never divide Christians. That being said...
There is zero basis for a sudden rapture or "secret coming." It is a 19th century started myth, created by Dispensationalist John Nelson Darby. In fact, the rapture was never taught by evangelical Protestantism prior to the year 1830. Why? Because it is not a bible based doctrine. Its origin is not based on scripture.
John 5:28-29 (NKJV)
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which ALL who are in the graves will hear His voice 29-and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed, 52-In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (Emphasis mine).
"ALL" will see the second coming of our Lord, not just a few during any "secret" coming where Jesus takes his church and then leaves the rest to suffer 7 years of "hell" (tribulation) on earth. Rather when He comes the second time, believers in Hades (Abraham's bossum; Luke 16) will rise first and will be taken with those believers still living on earth at the time of the second coming. The non believers in Hades (in "agony"; Luke 16) will be cast down to hell with those non believers at the time Christ appears. This is the great judgment.
Not understanding the book of Revelation and Daniel is why the "Rapture" myth came to fruition in the 19th century.
Ask yourself this: Why didn't one biblical scholar such as Calvin, Luther, Newton, Wycliffe, not even the Roman Catholics, nor Greek Orthodox nor any other reliable professor before the 1800's ever identify nor profess this "secret Rapture" myth, whch supposedly stemmed from within the pages of "Sola scripture?"
Answer: Because it came to fruition from the mind of a crazy man, John Darby.
Author Tim LaHaye's books and movies have convinced millions that the pre-trib doctrine is scriptural.
What did he say about which viewpoint is the oldest?
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197, Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998
Since the doctrine of the Apostles of Christ would be the oldest view, I will go with their version.
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Yeah Tim LaHaye (rolls eyes). There's another one who has seriously twisted his interpretation of scripture.
Dr. Tim LaHaye uses biblical monikers such as “The Day of Israel’s Calamity” to codify what he eerily described as Antichrist’s “final solution” to the “Jewish problem.” *1.
*1. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice, Charting the End Times (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2001), 63.
LaHaye is totally convinced that this time of national suffering for Jews will “be far worse than the Spanish Inquisition of the sixteenth century or even the Holocaust of Adolph Hitler in the twentieth century.” *2. Where does he get this information, because it's not found in the Bible.
*2. Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, Are We Living in the End Times? (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale, 1999), 146.
Sadly, Tim LaHaye's eisegesis is just a sad example of the blind leading the blind. Though he's made millions with his "Left Behind" series of fiction.
Again, we Christians ar called to correct and rebuke these types. This is not me (66/40) making this command, rather it is Paul:
2 Timothy 4:2-5 (NIV)
"2- preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage patient with great patience and careful instruction. 3-For The time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4-They Will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5-But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."
Sorry, but I'd agree with you if you were right. The Roman Catholics were never successful in containing nor censoring the Greek Orthodox, the Reformers, nor the Protestants on the subject it was they choose to preach. Calvin and Luther are but two classic examples of historic biblical scholars that couldn't be contained by the Papacy. They NEVER taught a rapture "The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.
Left Behind or Led Astray: History of the Pretrib Rapture doctrine
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
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Sorry, but I'd agree with you if you were right. The Roman Catholics were never successful in containing nor censoring the Greek Orthodox, the Reformers, nor the Protestants on the subject it was they choose to preach. Calvin and Luther are but two classic examples of historic biblical scholars that couldn't be contained by the Papacy. They NEVER taught a rapture "
"SUPPOSE?" "SUPPOSE?" Well lets "suppose" then that grandma was born a male, then she'd be Grandpa, right????It doesn't matter at all if Calvin or Luther ever taught the rapture or not. Either way, it changes nothing. For example, suppose Luther did preach the pre-trib rapture, would that suddenly change your mind, or would you just ignore it? I suspect you would just ignore it or explain it away, indicating their teaching on it would hold no weight with you either way either.
The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.
If the RCC had ever heard of a pretrib rapture, they would have fallen all over themselves in their haste to embrace it, because it fits perfectly with the futurism that was contrived by the papacy's counter-reformation. Futurism and pretribulationism are absolutely integral, indispensable, and inextricable within dispensationalism today. But the RCC didn't embrace it, because they never heard of it. You can't hold hostage something of which you've never heard.The reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church was not taught by all those you list in your post above, is because the RCC held it hostage, along with the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, for more than 1,600 years by their doctrine of Amillennialism.
Review the origins of the pre-trib rapture of the Church teachings, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Jojm and Paul, in the four post link below:
The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum
Quasar93
"SUPPOSE?" "SUPPOSE?" Well lets "suppose" then that grandma was born a male, then she'd be Grandpa, right????
You're presenting not only a false-dilemma but also a false assumption. You're creating a hypothetical situation that clearly never existed. Therefore you're last point here is moot.
You're argument has its feet firmly planted in midair. Try just using facts in evidence (history) that have already been proven over time. That is, neither Calvin nor Luther EVER taught the rapture myth. Not ever.
No not quite. Respectfully, where do you come up with this stuff? When Calvin "freed" himself from Catholicism and migrated to Geneva (a relatively "catholic-free" society at the time), his absolute number one priority in life was his complete and absolute devotion to soteriology! He lived and breathed his concept of the “double grace” gifted to all believers through their “partaking” in Christ. After Geneva, he even had time to write the first "study bible" without hardly any interference from the RCC. In all of his volumes of writings, he could have easily mentioned at least something about this fantastic "rapture" myth, but he didn't. Because the myth didn't exist then and still doesn't exist today within the pages of scripture.My point is that your point is irrelevent. Luther and Calvin had bigger issues than eschatology to contend with, such as rescuing salvation by grace through faith from the RCC teachings.
Why do you have this insatiable desire to continuously present a non sequitur scenario? You're dodging facts that are already present and then you assume "facts" that are NOT in the historical evidence. You suggest nothing but hypotheticals of magical "documents" that will "suddenly appear" in an effort to strengthen your already weak argument for the secret rapture myth. That's called "fake news."SeventyOne said:Tell me the truth. If a new document suddenly emerged from Calvin or Luther where they taught the concept of a pre-trib rapture, would you suddenly embrace it, or continue to deny it?
I've heard the lies that are in this video before and you all who are complicit in that deception will give an account for it.
No not quite. Respectfully, where do you come up with this stuff? When Calvin "freed" himself from Catholicism and migrated to Geneva (a relatively "catholic-free" society at the time), his absolute number one priority in life was his complete and absolute devotion to soteriology! He lived and breathed his concept of the “double grace” gifted to all believers through their “partaking” in Christ. After Geneva, he even had time to write the first "study bible" without hardly any interference from the RCC. In all of his volumes of writings, he could have easily mentioned at least something about this fantastic "rapture" myth, but he didn't. Because the myth didn't exist then and still doesn't exist today within the pages of scripture.
Luther's number one priority was a reverence for Sola scriptura and denouncing the Roman Catholic's sale of "indulgences." He was hardly focused on the RCC after he wrote his 95-Theses and boldly wrote the "Luther bible" for the common man. In other words, he too would have had PLENTY of uninterrupted time Stemming from the R-Catholic Church to write about a fantastical rapture, had he thought it existed within the parchment of the manuscript evidence.
Surely you can't believe that Calvin and Luther didn't "have time" to refute or prove of this fantastic rapture myth, because they were just "too busy" battling the RCC? Come on mate, you can't be serious?! ....Are you???
Why do you have this insatiable desire to continuously present a non sequitur scenario? You're dodging facts that are already present and then you assume "facts" that are NOT in the historical evidence. You suggest nothing but hypotheticals of magical "documents" that will "suddenly appear" in an effort to strengthen your already weak argument for the secret rapture myth. That's called "fake news."
Right now, there isn't any documents from either Calvin nor Luther to support your rapture claim. Both of them in fact had plenty of time to translate and write their own bibles from the manuscript evidence at that time! Definitely a colossal task indeed! In fact, Calvin even wrote and published his own 1560 Geneva bible with his own "STUDY NOTES" within the margins of that bible!" So don't even try to hint that those two were just "too busy" thwarting off the RCC. That's preposterous.
You can't accept the fact that neither the Protestants, Reformers, Orthodox, nor the Roman Catholics never taught about the rapture. That's because they were all intelligent enough to master the art and science of proper biblical interpretation.
Sorry, but I'd agree with you if you were right. The Roman Catholics were never successful in containing nor censoring the Greek Orthodox, the Reformers, nor the Protestants on the subject it was they choose to preach. Calvin and Luther are but two classic examples of historic biblical scholars that couldn't be contained by the Papacy. They NEVER taught a rapture "
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Luk_6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.
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