5 Challenges to Trump's Wall

[dogs4thewin]

How much will that cost?

probably a fair bit.

 

[Armoured]

probably a fair bit.

Probably worth investigating a bit more before just throwing it on there.

 

[dogs4thewin]

"More dangerous" how? We're talking about cameras, not land mines.

...or is that the next step? (so to speak)

no, I am saying that if a river floods; then there is an increased risks of drowning.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Don't give ideas

Believe me, I'm not telling them anything they haven't already thought of... you think the land mines were my idea?

 

[TLK Valentine]

no, I am saying that if a river floods; then there is an increased risks of drowning.

Many travelers -- especially those who expect to cross rivers incognito -- have practiced the forbidden lost art of "swimming."

Think about it -- they were expecting to cross a river; what's the difference crossing a flooded river?

I would suspect many of them are counting on the river flooding... the locals have already cleared out.

 

[Vylo]

That photo is NOT what you say it is...

The terrain alone is a no starter...

In fact there is almost no fence on the border, only close to official crossings. Probably why so many get into mexico and up to our border. Note that mexico only had about 125 agent to patrol a 577 mile border: Headless corpses spark worries on Mexico's southern border

 

[blackribbon]

You still have to account for people who come into the country legally and then just overstay. I think estimates are half of people here legally have done just that. A wall doesn't fix them. The long term fix, in my opinion, are laws that nearly bankrupt a business for employing an illegal.

That, combined with efforts to stop the crazy "war on drugs" that helps create more crime than it stops, ease poverty, help with jobs training, and bring back jobs will fix many of the problems we face.

A wall, a fence won't. It will be a nice symbol for people while nothing changes. But it feels good so we go with it. I wish we'd move away from what feels good.

BTW: pointing out Israel doesn't necessarily work. Israel has different goals with securing that portion of its boarder.

Okay....I will be happy if we just deal with those crossing our borders illegally from day one to start with. As for the ones overstaying their visas, just make people prove citizenship or legal right to be here when they renew their driver's licenses, rent homes, register for school, get a new job, etc.... (I would hope we do this anyway). The people I know who entered legally, stayed legal and became naturalized citizens....not a single overstayed visa in the bunch. They are all successful citizens.

 

[Armoured]

Believe me, I'm not telling them anything they haven't already thought of... you think the land mines were my idea?

I'll predict now that the people advocating this shoot on sight/landmines nonsense have never seen the effects of either on a human being.

Someone should tell them you're not at war with people crossing borders illegally.

 

[LoAmmi]

Okay....I will be happy if we just deal with those crossing our borders illegally from day one to start with. As for the ones overstaying their visas, just make people prove citizenship or legal right to be here when they renew their driver's licenses, rent homes, register for school, get a new job, etc.... (I would hope we do this anyway). The people I know who entered legally, stayed legal and became naturalized citizens....not a single overstayed visa in the bunch. They are all successful citizens.

And I'd rather if we dealt with issues facing everyday Americans before turning out attention to what people seem to think will be a force field from Star Trek at our boarder.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Many travelers -- especially those who expect to cross rivers incognito -- have practiced the forbidden lost art of "swimming."

Think about it -- they were expecting to cross a river; what's the difference crossing a flooded river?

I would suspect many of them are counting on the river flooding... the locals have already cleared out.

Yes, but it is still not particularly safe to be swimming in a flooded river. If that were not the case it is likely that many fewer people would lose their lives to floods.

 

[Armoured]

As for the ones overstaying their visas, just make people prove citizenship or legal right to be here when they renew their driver's licenses, rent homes, register for school, get a new job, etc.... (I would hope we do this anyway).

visas=/= citizenship

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'll predict now that the people advocating this shoot on sight/landmines nonsense have never seen the effects of either on a human being.

Someone should tell them you're not at war with people crossing borders illegally.

It is ILLEGAL. Therefore do not do it; if you choose to expect push back.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'll predict now that the people advocating this shoot on sight/landmines nonsense have never seen the effects of either on a human being.

Someone should tell them you're not at war with people crossing borders illegally.

Worse, since posse comitatus prohibits the military from domestic law enforcement, the job of "shoot on sight" and planting the mines will fall on state/federal law enforcement. How well is that going to go over? "Blue Lives Matter; Brown Ones Don't."

 

[blackribbon]

You're missing the point entirely... You have to prove the fact that they committed a crime in a court of law.

I can't stress this absurdly simple fact about the American legal system enough: The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the government to prove that the accused COMMITTED the crime.

Wouldn't lack of citizenship or legal visa be proof that you broke the law? And it isn't assumed that I have a driver's license...I have to provide the proof when asked. So proof of birth certificate, Visa, passport, etc...isn't really a big request.

 

[roamer_1]

1. The terrain is very rough in some areas

Anywhere Trump can't build a wall easily is going to add delays and expenses... anywhere he can't build it at all is going to be a gap which needs to be covered... somehow.

TRUE. But the rougher the terrain, the less likely the crossing, and what crossing there is would be naturally funneled to hot spots - Mountainous terrain is an effective barrier, naturally funneling traffic into defensible canyons and valleys. Where water is scarce, traffic is predicted and limited by watering holes...

2. Unlike the Western border states, most of Texas is privately owned

Trump's no stranger to "eminent domain," so let's see how Texas reacts to being on the wrong end of it from President Trump.

If there was ever a legitimate use of eminent domain, border protection would be it. And normally, the US retains right-of-way (according to my experience on the Northern border)

3. Most of the border is natural, but a human-made barrier is not

Just going to build a wall along the river, eh? Have we forgotten that rivers flood?

FALSE. Most borders follow natural geography. Most countries create barriers on their borders. Fences along rivers are nothing new at all. Solutions are already well known.

4. Surveillance makes the barrier effective

Obvious, really -- 2,000 miles of wall is going to require 2,000 miles of 24/7 surveillance... will Mexico be paying for that, too? Another Spanish I.O.U. in Trump's handwriting?

TRUE, but expected. All borders are garrisoned. The cost of protecting the border is far, far cheaper than allowing unfettered passage, as we already know.

5. Migrants are determined and often have few options

Having already established that a wall is not the solution to the majority of our illegal immigration woes, Trump seems to be relying heavily on the "intimidation factor" in it -- but considering that many illegal border crossers are either seriously desperate to get away from something, or worse, drug cartel mal hombres, there's very little to be intimidated by.

TRUE, but expected. Criminals are always as such. desperate or bad, or both. That's what makes them criminals. Every other border on the planet faces the same sort of problems, and are effectively managed.

What makes our southern border unique is many generations of tradition wherein criminals expect to be able to break the law with impunity, creating an uncontrollable (unstoppable) force. Such a force requires an immovable object, and a big hammer.

Once a workable solution is established, and a period of brutal enforcement ensues, the impossibility creates impasse, and the pressure on the border will diminish dramatically.

 

[lasthero]

It is ILLEGAL. Therefore do not do it; if you choose to expect push back.

It's illegal to steal candy, too, but that doesn't mean a store owner can shoot and kill a kid he sees doing it.

 

[Radrook]

I'm curious - do people who support the wall think that Mexicans are just going to walk to it, see it, then give up and go back home?

Maybe they should build a mote on the Mexican side and stock it with Florida crocodiles.
An occasional boa constrictor might also add to the detergence.

American Crocodile: Species Profile - Everglades National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[dogs4thewin]

It's illegal to steal candy, too, but that doesn't mean a store owner can shoot and kill a kid he sees doing it.

nope. He can however, detain them and he MAY shoot them if they are using force to do so.

 

[Armoured]

It is ILLEGAL. Therefore do not do it; if you choose to expect push back.

Do you think anything illegal warrants being shot on sight?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes, but it is still not particularly safe to be swimming in a flooded river. If that were not the case it is likely that many fewer people would lose their lives to floods.

It's not safe swimming in any river -- they're not swimming pools.

We're talking about people who've already trekked hundreds of miles through very harsh, unforgiving wilderness -- mostly desert. They're not going to stop at a river; flooded or not.

Besides, flood waters always recede, and they can cross before the patrols return or fences are repaired.