4004 Bc

[Gracchus]

I think not paying taxes, where legally possible is a sacred duty! Look how they spend it!

But of course Hovind was convicted on tax evasion where it wasn't legally possible.

I remember Jim Baker a bit. I was shocked when hearing the first sentence that he was getting. I think they reduced it soon after for varous reasons. If I recall, it was something like 40 years!?

The legislature sets the penalties.

Then I look at child molesters and killers getting off with maybe a few years....

So they reduced his sentence? Legislators wouldn't want to come down too hard on grifters, embezzlers, and tax evaders, would they?

 

[mpok1519]

Prove it.

lol to you? I am reading the documented narrative right here and now; what, you want me to fax it to you? lol If I did, you'd just ignore it anyway. Natives were often tricked by missionaries all the time, and even killed by missionaries. Just because someone is a missionary doesn't mean theyre perfect people; a missionary could be a prefectly terrible person if they wanted to.

BS. Pure and simple. The missionaries, and even godly traders were nothing like that.

what are yout alking about? white european settelers killed many natives, and tricked them into all kinds of things involving commerce.

BS. The reason whites came was because whites were the ones that were from Europe. To tarnish all whites with your racist brush would be intellectual lobotomy. As well as moral degeneracy. Not to mention dishonest and racist gibberish.

Again, how many credit hours of history did you take? none? kay. This is not racist; this is really what happened; not to say that the natives weren't also doing bad things to the whites; there were atrocities on both sides.

Thanks for sharing your brainwashed dreams. Interesting

This is history; it actually happened. Not like your fairy tale garden of eden that existed only 6000 sun rises ago.

Well, no. It was also the unmissionary, greedy, whiskey trading types, that actually did things like spread smallpox, by leaving infected blankets or carcasses out for the natives.

The missionaries were businessmen too; you think none of them had a job on the side? lol naive. The missionaries would aso ive small-pox ridden blankets to natives. Sure, the intentions were debated, but, much evidence suggests sometimes the natives were given these things as a systematic form of prostelyzation and/or genocide via biological warfare.

Indeed! As well as a sick and perverse fabrication and wet dream. Thanks for sharing.

Wet dream? This is a wet dream of mine? I am having ejaculatory night emissions from this? oookay. Is this a rule violation? lol This is actual, documented truth here; you just havn't been to school in a long time. The 700 club isn't a good place to get your historical info buddy.

I see. So now I am the bad guy in your dreamfest. OK. Thanks for that.

Not my dream; you're the bad guy in your own nightmare. =)

Take care!

 

[AV1611VET]

Then I look at child molesters and killers getting off with maybe a few years....

Yup --- I brought up the Louise Woodward au pair case earlier, and it was glossed over like it was nothing.

Abortion, the Challenger, Chernobyl, Hitler, Thalidomide, Vioxx --- means absolutely nothing to these guys.

After all, what's a few graves in the name of science?

But put an income tax evader on trial?

Oh, man! Stop the press! Get a cell ready!

It's time for yet another religious nut to get what's coming to him!

 

[dad]

But of course Hovind was convicted on tax evasion where it wasn't legally possible.

Right.

The legislature sets the penalties.





So they reduced his sentence? Legislators wouldn't want to come down too hard on grifters, embezzlers, and tax evaders, would they?

Good point. But they still came down hard. Ridiculous.

 

[dad]

lol to you? I am reading the documented narrative right here and now; what, you want me to fax it to you? lol If I did, you'd just ignore it anyway. Natives were often tricked by missionaries all the time, and even killed by missionaries. Just because someone is a missionary doesn't mean theyre perfect people; a missionary could be a prefectly terrible person if they wanted to.

Killed by missionaries? Examples? What narratitve, of whom, by who?

what are yout alking about? white european settelers killed many natives, and tricked them into all kinds of things involving commerce.

Red folks killed many white folks too. So? The natives had slavery, so? Some were cannibalistic. So? Maybe natives killed each other too. So? Men are men. Wickedness comes in all colors. Don't be racist.

Again, how many credit hours of history did you take? none? kay. This is not racist; this is really what happened; not to say that the natives weren't also doing bad things to the whites; there were atrocities on both sides.

I don't believe you. So, pony up the 'narrative' author, etc.

This is history; it actually happened. Not like your fairy tale garden of eden that existed only 6000 sun rises ago.

What is history is that some traders did not want to sell whiskey or infect the natives in any way. As for Eden, you are out of your depth, and the range of so called science to comment on intelligently.

The missionaries were businessmen too; you think none of them had a job on the side? lol naive.

There were all kinds, but the concept of a missionary, is one that primarily seeks to preach and further the kingdom, and knowledhe and love of God. If they grew a little corn, so what?

The missionaries would aso ive small-pox ridden blankets to natives. Sure, the intentions were debated, but, much evidence suggests sometimes the natives were given these things as a systematic form of prostelyzation and/or genocide via biological warfare.

Prove it. I do not believe you.

Wet dream? This is a wet dream of mine? ... This is actual, documented truth here; you just havn't been to school in a long time. The 700 club isn't a good place to get your historical info buddy.

If I wanted to learn, the last place on earth I would fo is school. If I wanted pagan fables, and slanted fabrications, and selective propaganda, public schools would be where I would go.

Now, try to face reality.

 

[dad]

Yup --- I brought up the Louise Woodward au pair case earlier, and it was glossed over like it was nothing.

Abortion, the Challenger, Chernobyl, Hitler, Thalidomide, Vioxx --- means absolutely nothing to these guys.

After all, what's a few graves in the name of science?

But put an income tax evader on trial?

Oh, man! Stop the press! Get a cell ready!

It's time for yet another religious nut to get what's coming to him!

Woe unto them that call good evil, and evil good. Nevertheless, when we step out of God's protection, and sin, we can expect the tender mercies of the devil, and the wicked. And, maybe we will pay the uttermost farthing in the process. Our judgment starts here, so it is not all for naught. Our lessons are for eternity, so must be learned well.

Thankfully we need not sorrow as them that have no hope, no future, no purpose.

 

[MoonLancer]

BS. Pure and simple. The missionaries, and even godly traders were nothing like that.

I do not know for sure if what mpok says is true, but i do know that christains gave native Americans small pox blanks intentionally. the question is, did the second part happen too?

BS. The reason whites came was because whites were the ones that were from Europe. To tarnish all whites with your racist brush would be intellectual lobotomy. As well as moral degeneracy. Not to mention dishonest and racist gibberish.

your right, but your also using a fallacy here. Guess which one. I think i will go bird watching.

Thanks for sharing your brainwashed dreams. Interesting.

? If you accept that god of the bible has the right to tell others to commit genocide in his name, What mpok is saying is not that far fetched.

Well, no. It was also the unmissionary, greedy, whiskey trading types, that actually did things like spread smallpox, by leaving infected blankets or carcasses out for the natives.

see above.

Indeed! As well as a sick and perverse fabrication and wet dream. Thanks for sharing.

do you like wet dreams? you seem to like them when they are in the bible.

I see. So now I am the bad guy in your dreamfest. OK. Thanks for that.

Only if you

actively manipulate truth into your own advantage in oder to manipulate others

 

[MoonLancer]

Prove it! Never heard such an insane claim, that is so hopelessly baseless. What an insult to men of all ages. What in box narrow mindedness.

show me a spirit and i will retract my claim.

 

[MoonLancer]

like 40 years!?

its 10 years. he is lucky, it could have been over 200

 

[AV1611VET]

Woe unto them that call good evil, and evil good. Nevertheless, when we step out of God's protection, and sin, we can expect the tender mercies of the devil, and the wicked. And, maybe we will pay the uttermost farthing in the process. Our judgment starts here, so it is not all for naught. Our lessons are for eternity, so must be learned well.

Good point --- judgment starts at the house of God first.

 

[AV1611VET]

show me a spirit and i will retract my claim.

Aren't you guys working on that machine?

And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

 

[mpok1519]

Killed by missionaries? Examples? What narratitve, of whom, by who?

You want specifics that you'll ignore anyway? lol Nope; not gonna give you the pleasue of wasting any more of my time that you've already devoured with meaningless rhetoric and empty knowledge.

Red folks killed many white folks too. So? The natives had slavery, so? Some were cannibalistic. So? Maybe natives killed each other too. So? Men are men. Wickedness comes in all colors. Don't be racist.

Just because I called the euro settlers white doesnt make me racist. lol

I don't believe you. So, pony up the 'narrative' author, etc.

You wouldnt believe truth if it kidnapped your dignity and sold it to charity. Read "Keepers of the Game" for some good examples.

What is history is that some traders did not want to sell whiskey or infect the natives in any way. As for Eden, you are out of your depth, and the range of so called science to comment on intelligently.

Coming from the guy who hates education. lol Didnt you call school just a...oh, heck,, I dont know, but it was clear that you disapprove of education itself.

There were all kinds, but the concept of a missionary, is one that primarily seeks to preach and further the kingdom, and knowledhe and love of God. If they grew a little corn, so what?

And some made lives out of exploiting indians here and there.

Prove it. I do not believe you.

I dont care if you do or not; the truth doesn't depend upon your belief son.

If I wanted to learn, the last place on earth I would fo is school. If I wanted pagan fables, and slanted fabrications, and selective propaganda, public schools would be where I would go.

theres your opinions of education! Well if you believe you know what is best for everyone, you should run for school board. (~prays this never happens~)

Now, try to face reality.

Coming from the guy who said "The evidence of spirits are nil" and then "the evidence mounts" within the same paragraph. lol Sorry son, you're the one in need of a reality check.

 

[BananaSlug]

Since you know squat of the state of the future or past, that is a lame claim to pretended fame. Your key doesn't actually work. It has produced insane fables.

Then go out and search for the evidence proving a different state past. Until that evidence is found, all we have shows a same state.

Since you have no clue about the laws in the universe state of the day, you should not expect others to. Although I actually do have a clue, unlike modern speculative past fabricators.

If you have a clue, then please give us the physical state of the past so we can disprove them. Of course it is hard to disprove a "different state" past if we don't know how it was different. Until then, all the evidence shows a same state past.

Why, did they like Galileo question actual knowledge, like I do? No. They pretended to have the knowledge of God, and were as phony as same state pasters! Total BS.

The church of Galileo's time thought they knew the nature of God. A lot of people today think the same way.

There is absolute 0 evidence to support any sort of same state past. So why assume either as the foundational premise of science? A building is only as good as the foundation is sits on.

There is 0 evidence to support a different state past. Why claim the past was different? Can you provide some examples on how the past was different? You sure haven't yet and your claims seem to be filled more and more with hot air. Tell us how the past was different rather than make us provide proof for how it was the same. Zero percent of the evidence shows a different state. All of the geologic phenomena from the past can be explained by geologic phenomena from the present.

As you have yet to tell us how the past was the same state, there is no place in geologic history to show any sort of same state physical laws in the past that are in the present, as is.

There is no place in geologic history to show any sort of different state past. We use modern phenomena to explain historic phenomena. Volcanic ash is made of the same elements and particles. We can find modern ash and it will be the same composition as ancient ash. So if the past was different then there should be a difference in the composition of the two volcanic ash deposits. There isn't.

Says who? If the flood was around the KT layer or so, (?) would that be before or after?

There are layers of ash of different ages. Are you saying there was more than one flood?

How do you know that gravity as is deposited the ash? Prove it.

What force do you claim to make the ash fall to earth? The rain fell from the heavens in Genesis 6, so we know there was gravity. Adam and Eve walked in the Garden of Eden, so we there was gravity.

Why would chemicals left from ash be different?

Because you claim the past existed in a different state but you never say how it was different. It is hard to disprove you claims when all you say is "it was different, it was different".

Is that ash exempt from the universal laws that now govern?

What? Are you claiming that there is no evidence for a different state past? Are you saying that any evidence for a different state past was changed when it turned over to the present state?

How was it when it was laid down?

Volcanic ash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thses are just a few questions...wanna dance?

I'm partial to Salsa. Clogging works as well...

You assume that present state chemicals and light, and gravity, and atomic arrangments, and etc were all the same. Yet, if the universe fabric changed, atoms and laws change too. So does molecules, and cells, and the interactions and relationships of living things, etc. Looking at how it now is in this temporal state does not mean it was that way! Simple.

So you are claiming that there is no evidence of a different state past. All of the evidence that showed a different state in the past changed when the physical state changed. If all of the historical evidence was changed then there is no proof for a different state just evidence for a same state. If there is no evidence for a different state past then there is no reason to assume a different state past.

Yes.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have learned that they were told, “Love your neighbor, hate your enemy.” But what I tell you is this: Love your enemies and pray for your persecutors; only so can you be children of your heavenly Father, who makes his sun shine on good and bad alike, and sends the rain on the honest and the dishonest. If you love only those who love you, what reward can you expect? Surely the tax-gatherers do as much as that. And if you greet only your brothers, what is there extraordinary about that? Even the heathen do as much. There must be no limit to your goodness, as your heavenly Father’s goodness knows no bounds.
​

Matthew 5:38-42

You have learned that they were told, “Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.” But what I tell you is this: Do not set yourself against the man who wrongs you. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn and offer him your left. If a man wants to sue you for your shirt, let him have your coat as well. If a man in authority makes you go one mile, go with him two. Give when you are asked to give; and do not turn your back on a man who wants to borrow.
​

Luke 6:27-36

Love your enemies; do good to those who hate you; bless those who curse you; pray for those who treat you spitefully. When a man hits you on the cheek, offer him the other cheek too; when a man takes your coat, let him have your shirt as well. Give to everyone who asks you; when a man takes what is yours, do not demand it back. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. If you love only those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. Again, if you do good only to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do as much. And if you lend only where you expect to be repaid, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to each other to be repaid in full. But you must love your enemies and do good; and lend without expecting any return; and you will have a rich reward: you will be sons of the Most High, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be compassionate as your Father is compassionate.
​

 

[MoonLancer]

Aren't you guys working on that machine?

a guy hallucinates and you think its a spirit? you could say that the machine is LSD.

But i will take another approach.

The machine is already invented. Its a paint brush. I'm holding this very moment!!!. I am the wilder of a sacred paint brush!!!!

 

[AV1611VET]

Please try to do more then to qoat me fiction. Or i will qoat gilgamesh, which is older then the bible and the tora.

Quote your Gilgamesh --- it means nothing to me.

I place it just below your science.

And just FYI, your Gilgamesh may predate the Torah, but it does not predate the Flood --- and it most certainly goes not predate early Genesis.

 

[MoonLancer]

And just FYI, your Gilgamesh may predate the Torah, but it does not predate the Flood --- and it most certainly goes not predate early Genesis.

Prove it. Genesis is an idea people came up with and wrote down in the Torah, so yes Gilgamesh DOES predate Genesis.

I'm glad you caught my edit for a number of reasons. i get to have my cake and eat it too.

 

[AV1611VET]

Prove it.

No can do --- just like I can't prove the U.S. Constitution.

That's why I take them on faith --- like I'm sure you do.

Genesis is an idea people came up with and wrote down in the Torah...

You were there?

... so yes Gilgamesh DOES predate Genesis.

No, it doesn't.

The Epic of Gilgamesh was written in an empire started by Noah's great-grandson.

 

[dad]

I do not know for sure if what mpok says is true, but i do know that christains gave native Americans small pox blanks intentionally. the question is, did the second part happen too?
your right, but your also using a fallacy here. Guess which one. I think i will go bird watching.

People did use germ warfare in the smallpox era, yes. The whiskey traders and others that had no love for the natives. Not missionaries. They came to share God's love, and help.

? If you accept that god of the bible has the right to tell others to commit genocide in his name, What mpok is saying is not that far fetched.

see above.

The few times where God had to tell His people to wipe out some little 'city' of truly dangerous wicked, could hardly be called genocide. It was police action!

 

[dad]

show me a spirit and i will retract my claim.

Prove there are none, and never were and I will retract mine. There is a better chance of hell freezing over in a month of blue moons, however.

 

[dad]

its 10 years. he is lucky, it could have been over 200

I never talked about what it is. I mentioned what it was, before being reduced. That was a time when it became clear to me that there is no justice in the world, and certainly not the US.