4004 Bc

[dad]

Astronomical data. Geological data. Physical data. Biological and sociological data. The numbers add up correctly, and still add up in a "state" where, according to your ideas, they shouldn´t.

Let me give you a simple example...

You find a lit candle. By observing it, you can calculate how fast it burns down. You can observe it over a time and find that rate to be quite constant. (Constant enough that candles were used as time-keeping instruments, did you know that?).

So by measuring the candle and it´s residues, you can calculate when the candle was lit.

The calculation takes you back to a time that, according to your ideas, was "different". Your calculation is based on the flawed assumtions that your observed methods would apply while they don´t. Fine. Of the the accusations of "fables" and "so called science".

Great, show us you candle that was lit before the flood? Sounds great. I somehow doubt you. As for so called data, like geological, the fossil record backs up a migration from Eden in a time of Hyper evolution, and a flood, from all I have ever seen so far. In spades. The continental spread data, like how many milimeters id spreads currently cannot be applied to the farr past, by any stretch, without a same state past! No more can light coming in as it now does from far xtars can be taken as any indication of anything but how light noow behaves. The only way the imaginary line to some same state non existent past is drawn, in by assuming it was always the same in the head! Nothing else draws that godless fantasy line to your nightmare past, or bizzaro future state, where so called science has a gleeful field day, and fries out the entire universe in it's sick little head! Pathetic.

But now you go on and try to find other ways of "dating" the candle. Look for evidence from the surroundings.
And when you have taken all these different dates, gathered by different methods, found by different calculations... you see that they all agree!

No, I actually see the opposite, that all agree better with a diffferent state. So much so, when we look at it, it is comical.

So either your idea of a "different state" was wrong, or it was different in such a curious way that makes it look like that it wasn´t!

No one has ever looked at it how would you know??? All we look at is this state, and so all things seen this stateish to us, it is all we know. No science has ever looked at it any other way, so all their numbers, lead to a same state dreamland. That is all they do, concoct same state scenarios! If the scenario was real weak, and didn't jive with other same state fables, it could not be peer reviewed by the same state priests as acceptable. Of course there has to be in house agreement with their little selves. No biggie.

Every single thing that you CAN test comes out correctly... only the things that you cannot test can you still hold within your "different" framework.

False. They cannot test ANYTHING about a different state future! So, that leaves ..what...class?

But according to your idea, you dismiss "science" because it cannot (correctly) test things. So shouldn´t you dismiss all of your stuff that you cannot test at all on the same grounds?

As science...yes! So they really need to stick their astro physics, geology, and paleo dreams, and etc, now falsely called science, in the back of the line at the religious dept! Leave science be real knowledge, like how to make a better lubricant, or something useful and real in the here and real now. I don't mind it being taught as a 6th rate fable, and religion, as long as taxpayers don't pay for it! They can pay for private fable schools. Maybe be charged with child abuse as well, by some hot shot lawyers for abusing young minds..

 

[dad]

Dismiss all of his stuff.. are you crazy?? his head would explode,
either that or he would desolve into a state of nothingness and meaninglessness (what a lovely word)
with all of his ideas gone up in (a different state) smoke, orangy type smoke from the third state, or was it the forth?

I think you are forgetting something Freodin, you can walk away and forget all about this nonsense,
dad is not able to do that, he believes it, he's stuck with it.

Nonsense. I am open to evidence, and only arrived at my current positions by looking at it! If there is evidence for the basis of so called sciences of the phantom universe state of the future and past, I adapt my position right away. As those faced with not being able to prove the same state future ought to do, in all honesty. Unlike them, I will not cling to religious beliefs, calling them science dishonestly even, rather than face the facts.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Nonsense. I am open to evidence, and only arrived at my current positions by looking at it! If there is evidence for the basis of so called sciences of the phantom universe state of the future and past, I adapt my position right away. As those faced with not being able to prove the same state future ought to do, in all honesty. Unlike them, I will not cling to religious beliefs, calling them science dishonestly even, rather than face the facts.

You're right. Beyond 14 billion years ago, we don't know what the state was.

 

[MoonLancer]

What numbers? Go beyond what? How? Get off the clouds, man, and put your case on the table.

Actually I would like if you first define what a state what causes a state change, and what changed from this state to the prev state. no sense it putting our cards on the table when your the one making the claim that science is fundamentally flawed.

 

[TheOutsider]

Astronomical data. Geological data. Physical data. Biological and sociological data. The numbers add up correctly, and still add up in a "state" where, according to your ideas, they shouldn´t.

Let me give you a simple example...

You find a lit candle. By observing it, you can calculate how fast it burns down. You can observe it over a time and find that rate to be quite constant. (Constant enough that candles were used as time-keeping instruments, did you know that?).

So by measuring the candle and it´s residues, you can calculate when the candle was lit.

The calculation takes you back to a time that, according to your ideas, was "different". Your calculation is based on the flawed assumtions that your observed methods would apply while they don´t. Fine. Of the the accusations of "fables" and "so called science".

But now you go on and try to find other ways of "dating" the candle. Look for evidence from the surroundings.
And when you have taken all these different dates, gathered by different methods, found by different calculations... you see that they all agree!

To extend your candle metaphor, we actually have video tape of the candle burning thanks to Hubble and WMAP. We can quite literally look billions of years into the past and see stars formign. We can see the background microwave radiation left over from the Big Bang.

The Cosmic Microwave Background

 

[Freodin]

Great, show us you candle that was lit before the flood? Sounds great. I somehow doubt you. As for so called data, like geological, the fossil record backs up a migration from Eden in a time of Hyper evolution, and a flood, from all I have ever seen so far. In spades. The continental spread data, like how many milimeters id spreads currently cannot be applied to the farr past, by any stretch, without a same state past! No more can light coming in as it now does from far xtars can be taken as any indication of anything but how light noow behaves. The only way the imaginary line to some same state non existent past is drawn, in by assuming it was always the same in the head! Nothing else draws that godless fantasy line to your nightmare past, or bizzaro future state, where so called science has a gleeful field day, and fries out the entire universe in it's sick little head! Pathetic.

You still don´t get it. You have all the puzzle pieces in front of you, but you don´t get the picture.

Ok, so the fossil record is the result of hyper evolution. Hyper evolution that dates from the flood to the split... but looks exactly as if it took hundreds of millions of years, spanning a number of distinctively different geological ages.
Ok, so radiometric dating of all these geological strata is changed by this split... but looks exactly as if it fits with these hundreds of millions of years.
Starlight, icecores, treerings, continental drift, remains of geological and cosmic events... all where subtly changed by the spiritual/physical split... and all in exactly such a way that they fit a billion years timescale just as well as a thousand years scale.

See, it is not so much that all these dates need to be absolute. It is the fact that they old fit together... and they all fit together with an old world. Science can explain each of these dates, and can thus explain why they fit.

And now explain within your system - outside of the "box" - how all these dates fit together in your pre-split world.

 

[Split Rock]

No one says they do?? To get the spiritual also effects on the physical we need to have the spiritual added. In the cases you mentioned, that is exactly what happened. To look at normal physical mores, and ways, and realities, where it does not happen, and try to contort that to mean that with the spiritual added, it can't is unmitigated knavish tripe of the first order.

Explain to us how when the spiritual is added to the physical, humans think and feel with their heart.

As for seed..
"
Date "sperm" was first used: 14th century. (references)
Etymology: sperm \Se"men\, noun; plural Semina. [Latin expression, from the root of serere, satum, to sow. See Sow to scatter seed.]. (Websters 1913)"


sperm

It has do do, apprently with what we might call 'sowing oats' sort of thingie. I understand that many products of the modern godless education and antimoral codes of antiethics might find that an unfamilar concept. The widespread same sex or sexless practices don't seem to have a lot of that sort of thing left in it.

What does the Etymology have to do with it? Acording to your information, "sperm" (the proper term) was in use well before the KJV1611 was published. Why wasn't "sperm" used?

No. The cattle, and other miracles of the bible are after the change that man's world went through. But the local application of focused spiritual added by God is a fact of man's existence.

It is your belief not a "fact."

 

[dad]

To extend your candle metaphor, we actually have video tape of the candle burning thanks to Hubble and WMAP. We can quite literally look billions of years into the past and see stars formign. We can see the background microwave radiation left over from the Big Bang.

The Cosmic Microwave Background

Interesting that science can now detect that there is a change that happened! I find it beyond funny that some actually still attribute this change to the universe once living in a speck! That of course is 100% fable, weird speculation, and absolutely without any possible proof.

Just another example of men trying to stuff the universe into a nice little same state box! Thanks for that.

 

[dad]

Explain to us how when the spiritual is added to the physical, humans think and feel with their heart.

The heart of man is desperately wicked. Anyone trying to relegate the lenth, and breadth, and depth, of the meaning of the word heart, as used in the bible, as the physical organ only, is just being cheeky. As for the effects of the spiritual on our physical world, there are many many mnay excellent test results listed in the book of books. They are usually called miracles, and that denotes that more than the usual laws, and physical things are at play. It can translate matter, or transpport it from one place to another, have it pass through walls, fly, disappear, appear, heal bodies, change animal dna in a hurry, so the offspring is affected, over ride instincts of animals with God's will, raise the dead, make all men comprehend the same tongue, break people out of jail...etc etc etc!

It also affects plant growth rates, lifespans, and etc. Love changes everything, and adding the spiritual does too.

What does the Etymology have to do with it? Acording to your information, "sperm" (the proper term) was in use well before the KJV1611 was published. Why wasn't "sperm" used?


It is your belief not a "fact."

The obvious meaning of the thought portrayed by the word, has to do with offspring. Why harp on sweet nothings, and get up in the air over nothing? Trying to be like an angel?

 

[Cabal]

Interesting that science can now detect that there is a change that happened! I find it beyond funny that some actually still attribute this change to the universe once living in a speck! That of course is 100% fable, weird speculation, and absolutely without any possible proof.

Just another example of men trying to stuff the universe into a nice little same state box! Thanks for that.

How does this result show that there was "a change that happened," and how exactly do you figure that it is the type of change you appear to have already decided on beforehand?

 

[Split Rock]

The heart of man is desperately wicked. Anyone trying to relegate the lenth, and breadth, and depth, of the meaning of the word heart, as used in the bible, as the physical organ only, is just being cheeky.

I am not being "cheeky" at all. No where in scripture is thought or emotion associated with the brain or the head. No where. It is always associated with the heart.

Pro 19:21 [There are] many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.


Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but [it is] in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.


Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,


Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;


Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?


Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.


1Cr 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


Pro 6:14 Fowardness [is] in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.


Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Where is the indication that the term "heart" is being used poetically? No where. If you want to assert it was being used poetically, then why do you insist that the stories in Genesis are not poetic analogies? It is just as obvious to me that they are not literally true.

As for the effects of the spiritual on our physical world, there are many many mnay excellent test results listed in the book of books. They are usually called miracles, and that denotes that more than the usual laws, and physical things are at play. It can translate matter, or transpport it from one place to another, have it pass through walls, fly, disappear, appear, heal bodies, change animal dna in a hurry, so the offspring is affected, over ride instincts of animals with God's will, raise the dead, make all men comprehend the same tongue, break people out of jail...etc etc etc!

It also affects plant growth rates, lifespans, and etc. Love changes everything, and adding the spiritual does too.

You were not referring to miracles when you came up with the "Pre-Split Non-PO World" idea. Are you changing your tune now? Doesn't God carry out miracles after the "Split?"

The obvious meaning of the thought portrayed by the word, has to do with offspring. Why harp on sweet nothings, and get up in the air over nothing? Trying to be like an angel?

Because it casts doubt on the literal accuracy of scripture, and you asked me to come up with examples of that. I have done so. Maybe scripture is wrong, or maybe you are interpreting it wrong. That makes much more sense to me than our understanding of reality being wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

Interesting that science can now detect that there is a change that happened! I find it beyond funny that some actually still attribute this change to the universe once living in a speck! That of course is 100% fable, weird speculation, and absolutely without any possible proof.

Just another example of men trying to stuff the universe into a nice little same state box! Thanks for that.

You mean "speck" --- not "box"?

Remember: these guys, who claim the entire universe could fit inside a pixel, whine because all the animals couldn't have fit aboard the Ark.

[I know --- volume is relative --- ]

 

[Nathan Poe]

The heart of man is desperately wicked.

Speak for yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

The heart of man is desperately wicked.

Speak for yourself.

.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Hespera]

The louder they thunder about iniquity and sin and wickedness, the more you know they are talking about themselves.

 

[Nathan Poe]

.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Hespera]

no need to tell him, hathanp...he already did.

 

[AV1611VET]

Speak for yourself.

I can't:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

 

[Hespera]

A paradox.... he cant speak for himself, but he did.

YouTube - Pirates of Penzance - Paradox (Subtitles)

 

[Split Rock]

You mean "speck" --- not "box"?

Remember: these guys, who claim the entire universe could fit inside a pixel, whine because all the animals couldn't have fit aboard the Ark.

[I know --- volume is relative --- ]

It wasn't a "pixel." It was a singularity.