3rd Temple coming soon..

[L0U]

If you agree with abedmelech, then you DENY Paul's pretrib rapture, and you will certainly be LEFT BEHIND to face both God's wrath and Satan's wrath and YOU WILL BE OVERCOME. This is God's word to you and all how will not believe Paul's rapture comes FIRST. OVERCOME means you will not live through the 70th week of Daniel, but will lose your head or cave in and take the mark. It will be a very hard time. Believers will be hungry and thirsty with no way to obtain food and water. Many will give up and take the mark. Others will deny the mark and lose their head. Ignore these scriptures at your own peril! Jesus is coming VERY SOON to get His bride. If you are left behind, it will be all your own fault, for you have been warned.

LAMAD

You need to study the first 300 years of church history.

Justin Martyr- A.D. 110 to 165

Chapter I.—Address.

To the Emperor Titus Ælius Adrianus Antoninus Pius Augustus Cæsar, and to his son Verissimus the Philosopher, and to Lucius the Philosopher, the natural son of Cæsar, and the adopted son of Pius, a lover of learning, and to the sacred Senate, with the whole People
of the Romans, I, Justin, the son of Priscus and grandson of Bacchius, natives of Flavia Neapolis in Palestine, present this address and petition in behalf of those of all nations who are unjustly hated and wantonly abused, myself being one of them.

Chapter II.—Justice demanded.

Reason directs those who are truly pious and philosophical to honour and love only what is true, declining to follow traditional opinions,4 if these be worthless. For not only does sound reason direct us to refuse the guidance of those who did or taught anything
wrong, but it is incumbent on the lover of truth, by all means, and if death be threatened, even before his own life, to choose to do and say what is right. Do you, then, since ye are called pious and philosophers, guardians of justice and lovers of learning, give good heed, and hearken to my address; and if ye are indeed such, it will be manifested. For we have come, not to flatter you by this writing, nor please you by our address, but to beg that you pass judgment, after an accurate and searching investigation, not flattered by prejudice or by a desire of pleasing superstitious men, nor induced by irrational impulse or evil rumours which have long been prevalent, to give a decision which will prove to be against yourselves. For as for us, we reckon that no evil can be done us, unless we be convicted as evil-doers or
be proved to be wicked men; and you, you can kill, but not hurt us."
Etc., etc........
You really should not say the things you say to others until you read and consider these.

 

[iamlamad]

John wrote a little more than that..1 John 4:3
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Please notice you didn't include 2nd John 1:7:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

The little horn has already been...but you keep with your "Left Behind" eschatology.

Easy...there's no "midpoint of a coming week"...those are your "Left Behind Fairy Tales".

I don't have to...I know it is and has already been, and I understand the "temple" is the church, YOU don't.

I know it is for you...because again it refutes your "Left Behind" mentality. Just saying "completely false" is another way you show your frustration with an answer that threatens your eschatology. You embrace the most popular and the most erroneous eschatology there is Lamad. It's like a jigsaw puzzle...with no picture on the box.

HA HA HA! I am not threatened, because I teach the TRUTH. Your pet theories are FALSE and don't agree with the scriptures. As I have said before, you have been WARNED. When you are beating your head against a wall, wondering WHY you have been left behind, you will KNOW it was all your OWN FAULT. Please allow me to make a suggestion. TAKE OFF all preconceived glasses, and come to God with a CLEAN SLATE. Ask Him for TRUTH. Determine not to form ANY opinion until you HEAR from Him. The Holy Spirit is the teacher. He will be HAPPY to teach you, if you ask Him properly. I will even give you a hint: praying in the Holy Spirit helps you hear Him! On the other hand, He will allow you to believe any kind of false doctrine, if you are determined to believe it.

LAMAD.

 

[ebedmelech]

If it is a total fabrication then you should be able to trace it to its historical source.
Ebed, brother, I challenge you on this. What do you believe?

I believe as John tells us in 1 John 4:1-7 that antichrist already is...and has been in the world.

Do you realize John was writing this to 1 century Christians? He tells us how to identify antichrist as well as the "spirit of antichrist".

Again in 2 John 1, John is writing to the "chosen lady and her chidren", and he says in 2 John 1:7:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

So antichrist was already on the scene as John writes this.

This "fabrication" hinges on Daniel 9:26, 27 tied to 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 13 & 17. Those who believe this is future, say there will be a "revived Roman Empire" (who they think is the EU), and that *antichrist* will rise to power out of it, and make a peace treaty with Israel, and somwhere along the line this third temple gets built. The *antichrist* makes a 7 year peace treaty with Israel but in the middle of the treaty he turns on the Jews and starts to slaughter them.

What I believe is that Jesus is returning...and that we should view these things as examples to us in the church of how we are to hold fast those written examples in our day.

Think about all the antichrists that have been in history, and how the church has survived them all. Instead of trying to identify "an antichrist" we need to know and realize there are many...not just one...and hold fast to what our Lord tells us to do which is remain steadfast.

I believe we ARE in the thousand year reign right now, and have been since Jesus was raised.

The things written in Revelation are about the Lord's judgment of Jerusalem/Israel in 70 AD. I hold they are not future...and I DO NOT believe Israel is the key to prophecy as many futurist do.

I also believe:

*Israel was God's people in the OT...the church is spiritual Israel in the NT, which is made up of Gentiles and Jews. As Paul says "there is NO difference...ALL believers are "Abraham's seed" and Abraham's SEED is Christ, which makes us ALL HEIRS OF GOD'S PROMISE. I do not think that applies only to salvation as many think...but that as "Abraham's seed" we all are spiritual Israel!

Peter makes the point when he calls the a "CHOSEN RACE, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, and A PEOPLE FOR GOD'S OWN POSSESSION".
Why would Peter call all believers what Israel was in the OT? He is quoting passages of Isaiah there! He is revealing what the Lord means in Isaiah 61:6 for example:
6 But you will be called the priests of the Lord; You will be spoken of as ministers of our God. You will eat the wealth of nations, And in their riches you will boast.

These are things that many just gloss over because they sit in churches and simply listen to their teachers instead of really getting into the word! As a young believer I did the same thing. However I began to do as my pastor said and "check him out" on His teaching.

I read the bible chronologically and began to see passages that were fulfillment of prophecies I was being taught were future and I started to question that teaching.

My church was "dispensational" in it's theology...and that is not bad for the most part when it came to the basic doctrines of Christianity, but "dispensational eschatology" is quite flawed in many respects because it teaches one to read *almost* everything literally. That leads to diregarding how the apostles teach us in the NT...which sheds the light on the OT prophesies and HOW we should see them.

Why would Paul tell us the "TRUE JEW" is the one who is circumcised in their heart, by the Holy Spirit in Romans 2:28, 29???

Much more could be said...but let me point you to Jesus, as He spoke to "the woman at the well in John 4. Jesus effectively shifted worship from "temples and mountains"...to Spiritual worship of God...NOT physical things. He said to her in John 4:21:
21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

Jesus effectively tells her "it's not about Jerusalem or mountains" lady!

He then tells her what TRUE WORSHIP is in John 4:22:
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

This is undeniable! We know Messiah comes through the Jews, who were God's chosen people at this time!

Now Jesus shifts the focus in John 4:23:
23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

So Jesus says WORSHIP IS NOW SPIRITUAL! and in John 4:24 He says why:
24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

You will hear the argument that "preterist *spiritualize* the scriptures"...but when you carefully read the scriptures IT IS JESUS AND THE APOSTLES that do the spiritualizing!

Now the woman speakes about the coming Messiah in John 4:25:
25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.”

Jesus introduces Himself as Messiah in John 4:26:
26 Jesus *said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

Jesus tells us it's not about Jerusalem! Jesus also tells us he will make Jews and Gentiles ONE in John 10:16, 17:
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

There's much more can be said...but I will say (as I consistently say) it's not about "a theology" or *an eschatology*...it is about being true to God's word!

 

[ebedmelech]

HA HA HA! I am not threatened, because I teach the TRUTH. Your pet theories are FALSE and don't agree with the scriptures. As I have said before, you have been WARNED. When you are beating your head against a wall, wondering WHY you have been left behind, you will KNOW it was all your OWN FAULT. Please allow me to make a suggestion. TAKE OFF all preconceived glasses, and come to God with a CLEAN SLATE. Ask Him for TRUTH. Determine not to form ANY opinion until you HEAR from Him. The Holy Spirit is the teacher. He will be HAPPY to teach you, if you ask Him properly. I will even give you a hint: praying in the Holy Spirit helps you hear Him! On the other hand, He will allow you to believe any kind of false doctrine, if you are determined to believe it.

LAMAD.

You think you teach truth...but it's loaded with error...because you accept what you have been taught.

Learn to go "line upon line...precept upon precept, here a little, there a little"...as scripture teaches...and your eyes might open.

You are a Christian who has become a disciple of the likes of Tim Lahaye, Hal Lindsey and maybe even Jack Van Impe.

That is all.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...I believe we have been in the thousand year reign right now, and have been since Jesus was raised....

You believe a lie, then.

The Satans are not shut up in prison,
and the tares are not removed
and the Sheep and Goat Gentiles have not been gathered and judged by the LORD,
with only the sheep Gentiles remaining on earth to repopulate it for the thousand years
along with the elect of the seed of Jacob who pass under the Rod of God at Sinai
after being gathered by the angels and brought there to be judged by the God of the whole earth/ Israel/Yeshua, in flesh;
and the Sabbath Millennium is not arrived, when the curse is removed from the earth
and the Kingdom of God is not yet come on earth as it is in heaven
and Israel is not now the Capital City of all the earth
and all the cities of the nations of the earth do not now send the male representatives of the families of the cities of the nations of the earth up to Jerusalem each year,
to keep the Feast of Tabernacles
so that their cities will not suffer drought for one whole year.

And Damascus is not destroyed and the Harlot City/Mecca is not destroyed and the corpses of those who rebelled against the LORD are not forever burning in the valley outside the nation of Israel, and men do not go there to look upon them, and the south and east of the Saudi Arabian peninsula is not turned to burning pitch forever,
and Egypt and Assyria and Israel are not united in one with YHWH, and there is not a pillar to YHWH at the border of Egypt, and Elamites are not scattered over the nations of the earth -much less returned which they shall be when the LORD comes down to reign for the millennial Sabbath Rest of this earth.

I could go on and on.
You err and bring much false doctrine against the clear doctrine of the Word of God -from the beginning to the end if it.

 

[Lollerskates]

You believe a lie, then.

The Satans are not shut up in prison,
and the tares are not removed
and the Sheep and Goat Gentiles have not been gathered and judged by the LORD,
with only the sheep Gentiles remaining on earth to repopulate it for the thousand years
along with the elect of the seed of Jacob who pass under the Rod of God at Sinai
after being gathered by the angels and brought there to be judged by the God of the whole earth/ Israel/Yeshua, in flesh;
and the Sabbath Millennium is not arrived, when the curse is removed from the earth
and the Kingdom of God is not yet come on earth as it is in heaven
and Israel is not now the Capital City of all the earth
and all the cities of the nations of the earth do not now send the male representatives of the families of the cities of the nations of the earth up to Jerusalem each year,
to keep the Feast of Tabernacles
so that their cities will not suffer drought for one whole year.

And Damascus is not destroyed and the Harlot City/Mecca is not destroyed and the corpses of those who rebelled against the LORD are not forever burning in the valley outside the nation of Israel, and men do not go there to look upon them, and the south and east of the Saudi Arabian peninsula is not turned to burning pitch forever,
and Egypt and Assyria and Israel are not united in one with YHWH, and there is not a pillar to YHWH at the border of Egypt, and Elamites are not scattered over the nations of the earth -much less returned which they shall be when the LORD comes down to reign for the millennial Sabbath Rest of this earth.

I could go on and on.
You err and bring much false doctrine against the clear doctrine of the Word of God -from the beginning to the end if it.

Exactly.

If anything, we are in tribulation, and have been (I would venture to say since Christ left this earth - since the Disciples, Apostles and believers were killed for their belief in Christ.) Soon, I believe a Great Tribulation will begin - when [the spirit of] The Satan is "manifest" in a vessel known as Antichrist. Well, maybe a little bit after that when his "buddies" wreak havoc on earth for a time.

 

[ebedmelech]

You believe a lie, then.

I think not...and I won't say you believe "a lie"...because a lie is based on the fact that a person KNOWS what they say is false. A lie is a lie because it's motive is to evade truth.

The Satans are not shut up in prison,
and the tares are not removed
and the Sheep and Goat Gentiles have not been gathered and judged by the LORD,
with only the sheep Gentiles remaining on earth to repopulate it for the thousand years
along with the elect of the seed of Jacob who pass under the Rod of God at Sinai
after being gathered by the angels and brought there to be judged by the God of the whole earth/ Israel/Yeshua, in flesh;
and the Sabbath Millennium is not arrived, when the curse is removed from the earth
and the Kingdom of God is not yet come on earth as it is in heaven
and Israel is not now the Capital City of all the earth
and all the cities of the nations of the earth do not now send the male representatives of the families of the cities of the nations of the earth up to Jerusalem each year,
to keep the Feast of Tabernacles
so that their cities will not suffer drought for one whole year.

And Damascus is not destroyed and the Harlot City/Mecca is not destroyed and the corpses of those who rebelled against the LORD are not forever burning in the valley outside the nation of Israel, and men do not go there to look upon them, and the south and east of the Saudi Arabian peninsula is not turned to burning pitch forever,
and Egypt and Assyria and Israel are not united in one with YHWH, and there is not a pillar to YHWH at the border of Egypt, and Elamites are not scattered over the nations of the earth -much less returned which they shall be when the LORD comes down to reign for the millennial Sabbath Rest of this earth.

I could go on and on.
You err and bring much false doctrine against the clear doctrine of the Word of God -from the beginning to the end if it.

You're pretty much in total error yeshuasavedme...this is nothing more than you believing error.

Anytime you wish I can take each point you make and point to the real error of your view.

One thing I come to understand is some people just won't let go of Judaism...and that's understandable. Traditions and beliefs are very hard to overcome.

Let's take your error that Satan is not bound. Since you think of a "complete" binding...you miss the mark!

The firs error is you go totally against what Jesus said as He used the term "bound". There is physical binding and spiritual binding...and you have to allow context to determine HOW one is bound.

When Jesus spoke of the spiritual binding...that's why when He hit the scene in the Nazereth synagogue in Luke 4:18-21..he said:
16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read.
17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are oppressed,
19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”
20 And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him.
21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

Yesuasavedme, if you cant read that and see Jesus speaks of spiritual binding, which the power of the gospel breaks...it's now wonder why you think Satan is not bound.

If Satan wasn't bound...you woundn't be saved.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

If Satan wasn't bound...you woundn't be saved.

You err.
David was saved.
Abraham was saved
Noah was saved...and many more were saved of the OT and NT, based on the Fact that the Lamb of God was crucified from the foundation of the world; and they looked forward and we look back, but it is the same salvation. You do not know Bible doctrine.

Jesus called eleven men, and one who walked in the same anointing of Christ that He gave to all His apostles and disciples, but one of them was a son of perdition, and blasphemed His name willfully.
After the resurrection, the difference in salvation for the redeemed has been the regeneration of Spirit into the One Living Spirit of Christ, who is come in New Man flesh named "Israel" not "Adam" -Isaiah 49.

Even at that, the job for the living is still by faith, in that we do not walk in our promised regenerated bodies of flesh, yet.

We who are born of the Living Spirit have not yet received the "Hope" of that promise of the adoption flesh, though the "Hope" of Adoption into His living Spirit is fulfilled for whosoever will believe.
And for all that: the rehearsal of all these promises that have been fulfilled and those that are to be fulfilled were only given to the namesake people of the New Man name, to rehearse until every last one of them is fulfilled to every exact dot and tittle.

You have error upon error by your vain doctrines taught from blind men.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by ebedmelech

...I believe we have been in the thousand year reign right now, and have been since Jesus was raised....
​

You believe a lie, then.

The Satans are not shut up in prison,
and the tares are not removed
and the Sheep and Goat Gentiles have not been gathered and judged by the LORD,
with only the sheep Gentiles remaining on earth to repopulate it for the thousand years
along with the elect of the seed of Jacob who pass under the Rod of God at Sinai
after being gathered by the angels and brought there to be judged by the God of the whole earth/ Israel/Yeshua, in flesh;
and the Sabbath Millennium is not arrived, when the curse is removed from the earth
and the Kingdom of God is not yet come on earth as it is in heaven
and Israel is not now the Capital City of all the earth
and all the cities of the nations of the earth do not now send the male representatives of the families of the cities of the nations of the earth up to Jerusalem each year,
to keep the Feast of Tabernacles
so that their cities will not suffer drought for one whole year.

And Damascus is not destroyed and the Harlot City/Mecca is not destroyed and the corpses of those who rebelled against the LORD are not forever burning in the valley outside the nation of Israel, and men do not go there to look upon them, and the south and east of the Saudi Arabian peninsula is not turned to burning pitch forever,
and Egypt and Assyria and Israel are not united in one with YHWH, and there is not a pillar to YHWH at the border of Egypt, and Elamites are not scattered over the nations of the earth -much less returned which they shall be when the LORD comes down to reign for the millennial Sabbath Rest of this earth.

I could go on and on.
You err and bring much false doctrine against the clear doctrine of the Word of God -from the beginning to the end if it.

God does not change.
Every dot and tittle of the Law shall be fulfilled.
The land promise is YHWH's prophetic utterance that He shall fulfill -and swore" by Himself" to do, for Abraham's physical sperm -seed- through Isaac and Jacob.

Now let's see the promise of YHWH which He swore to fulfill by His cutting the Covenant of "death to Himself" if He did not fulfill it, Himself alone, as the Two Persons needed to ratify a covenant. He passed between them as God the Word/Light and God the Fire/Burning Furnace; and passing between the cut pieces He testified that He, alone, will fulfill the Covenant of the promise of the land.

Here are a few of the Scripture passsages dealing with the land borders of the everlasting/forever promise, which YHWH cut the Covenant of death to Himself, if He, alone, did not fulfill it, unconditionally:

Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Gen Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.


Gen 48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,
Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

 

[ebedmelech]

You err.

Could you please read more carefully. What I said I say again...if Satan is not bound you wouldn't be saved. Think about that. When Jesus ascended 3000 people were saved in one sermon...because Satan was bound by the gospel in each one. That is your error.

David was saved.
Abraham was saved
Noah was saved...and many more were saved of the OT and NT, based on the Fact that the Lamb of God was crucified from the foundation of the world; and they looked forward and we look back, but it is the same salvation. You do not know Bible doctrine.

Like I said...read carefully. Where do I even say none of them were saved?

Jesus called eleven men, and one who walked in the same anointing of Christ that He gave to all His apostles and disciples, but one of them was a son of perdition, and blasphemed His name willfully.
After the resurrection, the difference in salvation for the redeemed has been the regeneration of Spirit into the One Living Spirit of Christ, who is come in New Man flesh named "Israel" not "Adam" -Isaiah 49.

Israel means literally "strive with God"...so your first error is thinking that's Jesus...because Jesus has His name which literally means..."YHWH is Salvation". Jesus is not Israel!

Simply go read Romans 5:12-21, and you'll see your belief has problems. The New Man is the church...His body. Once again Ephesians 2:14, 16:
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

So the "new man" is the church!

You have an "Israel hang-up" and you need to get over it and embrace ALL PEOPLE...because we who believe are ALL Abraham's seed...and no matter how you try to deny it the scriptures set you straight. Just as Paul says in Philippians 3:2, 3 as he warns the Church of Philippi of the Judaizers he says to that GENTILE CHURCH:
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

Now...you can read on how Paul says his Judaism is nothing in the light of Christ. You taint your theology with a slant towards Judaism...and you ought not do that...but embrace all Christains as God's people...because it's not the case since Christ was raised. He started the church in Jerusalem and it spread everywhere from there!

Even at that, the job for the living is still by faith, in that we do not walk in our promised regenerated bodies of flesh, yet.

We who are born of the Living Spirit have not yet received the "Hope" of that promise of the adoption flesh, though the "Hope" of Adoption into His living Spirit is fulfilled for whosoever will believe.
And for all that: the rehearsal of all these promises that have been fulfilled and those that are to be fulfilled were only given to the namesake people of the New Man name, to rehearse until every last one of them is fulfilled to every exact dot and tittle.

You have error upon error by your vain doctrines taught from blind men.

You're the one blind! Stand by for a correct understanding. YOU don't understand what the Holy Spirit does! This is how it goes:

*Upon salvation, we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is given us as a "down payment" and as is said "The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God! The Holy Spirit is THE GUARANTEE of salvation!!!

Look at Ephesians 2:13, 14:
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

*The Spirit of God is what gives us our hope of salvation.

Now...read again how that is accomplished in Romans 8 and you *might* get the clear picture.

 

[ebedmelech]

Duplicate

 

[ebedmelech]

Originally Posted by ebedmelech

...I believe we have been in the thousand year reign right now, and have been since Jesus was raised....
​

God does not change.
Every dot and tittle of the Law shall be fulfilled.
The land promise is YHWH's prophetic utterance that He shall fulfill -and swore" by Himself" to do, for Abraham's physical sperm -seed- through Isaac and Jacob.

Now let's see the promise of YHWH which He swore to fulfill by His cutting the Covenant of "death to Himself" if He did not fulfill it, Himself alone, as the Two Persons needed to ratify a covenant. He passed between them as God the Word/Light and God the Fire/Burning Furnace; and passing between the cut pieces He testified that He, alone, will fulfill the Covenant of the promise of the land.

Here are a few of the Scripture passsages dealing with the land borders of the everlasting/forever promise, which YHWH cut the Covenant of death to Himself, if He, alone, did not fulfill it, unconditionally:

Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Gen Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.


Gen 48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,
Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

Now go read Galatians 3 & 4...let Paul enlighten you how that works. Let me know how you see that.

 

[iamlamad]

You think you teach truth...but it's loaded with error...because you accept what you have been taught.

Learn to go "line upon line...precept upon precept, here a little, there a little"...as scripture teaches...and your eyes might open.

You are a Christian who has become a disciple of the likes of Tim Lahaye, Hal Lindsey and maybe even Jack Van Impe.

That is all.

As usual, you could not get much farther from the truth! I did exactly as I suggested to you. I forgot everything I thought I knew about the end times, and came to God with a blank slate, and allowed Him to teach me. In fact, He did, line upon line as you said. I have NEVER READ anything from Tim lahaye and I don't listen to Jack Van Impe. What I know, I know from HIM.

The first time He spoke to me about end times, I was reading Dan. 9:27. He said, "You could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation." I heard His voice and His words. I was dumbfounded, but my spirit man asked: "how would I find that?" He spoke again and said, "every time I mentioned an event that would begin at the midpoint and go to the end, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time. When you find the mention of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint. In fact, you could find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.'"

I DID find the midpoint "clearly marked" by the 7th trumpet. Then I found the entire 70th week was marked by 7's.

Again, I heard His voice and His words, very clearly. Ebedmelech, WHY would He even bother to teach me about the 70th week if it was history?

I went back to chapters 4 & 5, and asked Him to teach me there. I was convinced then, that there must be TRUTH there most miss, for so many like Tim Lahaye believe the 70th week begins the with first seal. Well, He taught me chapters 4 & 5 and 12 next. I learned them very well.

Just as Paul was SO SURE of His revelation that he preached for years before going up to Jerusalem and checking with those that walked with Christ (those that were "somewhat") to make absolutely sure he was teaching truth, I also am VERY SURE of the things He has taught me, just as Paul was. That is the reason I can write with authority. That is the reason I can assure you, unless you change your mind, you will SURELY be left behind. It is not a little thing! It will be devastating. Many will LOSE their salvation by taking the mark.

So you go ahead and spiritualize the book of Revelation - DON'T read it as literally as you can. Believe it is all history. God gives you this freedom. He will give you as close to what you believe for as is possible for Him to do. However, since He IS coming back twice more, once FOR His bride and again WITH His bride, He will certainly not change His plans because you fail to believe Him. He will just allow you to remain behind and find out in person that the Beast of chapter 13 is still future.

It does not matter if you don't call Him "the antichrist." He is coming anyway. John called Him a leopard beast with the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. WHY? Because He will resemble Alexander the Great in His ability to wage very rapid warfare. He will resemble The Medes and Persians in their ability to amass huge numbers of troops. You do remember that Esther lived during the time of the Medes and Persians? And he will resemble Nebuchadnezzar in the things he will do. For example, he will build an IMAGE and force people to worship it, or be put to death. Finally, he will, as others before him, decide to WIPE OUT ISRAEL FOREVER. Israel as a nation has NEVER recognized Jesus as their Messiah, but the word TELLS US they will, and they will mourn for the one their Pierced.

You have been challenged before, and of course failed miserably to answer the challenge. I will give you another opportunity: if Revelation for the most part is HISTORY, then you should easily be able to PROVE IT by History. SHOW US what events in History fulfilled each of the trumpet judgments and vial judgments.

Good luck with that, for NO PRETERIST HAS EVER been able to do it, simply because these things have never happened yet. Well, just hang around a few more years, and you will get to see them take place exactly as they are written. You will not only see them, without a doubt you will be STUNG by one of those flying beasties that sting like scorpions. That is, IF you survive the "sudden destruction" that is coming before any of the trumpets.

LAMAD

 

[ShedSinforChrist]

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

You guys need to be VERY careful about how you teach this book to others.

Very careful. Personally, I refuse to pretend I know anything about Revelation until the appointed time and the prophecies therein are objectively identifiable.

Some of it is obvious, some of it is not.

Cheers

 

[ebedmelech]

As usual, you could not get much farther from the truth! I did exactly as I suggested to you. I forgot everything I thought I knew about the end times, and came to God with a blank slate, and allowed Him to teach me. In fact, He did, line upon line as you said. I have NEVER READ anything from Tim lahaye and I don't listen to Jack Van Impe. What I know, I know from HIM.

The first time He spoke to me about end times, I was reading Dan. 9:27. He said, "You could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation." I heard His voice and His words. I was dumbfounded, but my spirit man asked: "how would I find that?" He spoke again and said, "every time I mentioned an event that would begin at the midpoint and go to the end, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time. When you find the mention of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint. In fact, you could find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.'"

I DID find the midpoint "clearly marked" by the 7th trumpet. Then I found the entire 70th week was marked by 7's.

Again, I heard His voice and His words, very clearly. Ebedmelech, WHY would He even bother to teach me about the 70th week if it was history?

I went back to chapters 4 & 5, and asked Him to teach me there. I was convinced then, that there must be TRUTH there most miss, for so many like Tim Lahaye believe the 70th week begins the with first seal. Well, He taught me chapters 4 & 5 and 12 next. I learned them very well.

Just as Paul was SO SURE of His revelation that he preached for years before going up to Jerusalem and checking with those that walked with Christ (those that were "somewhat") to make absolutely sure he was teaching truth, I also am VERY SURE of the things He has taught me, just as Paul was. That is the reason I can write with authority. That is the reason I can assure you, unless you change your mind, you will SURELY be left behind. It is not a little thing! It will be devastating. Many will LOSE their salvation by taking the mark.

So you go ahead and spiritualize the book of Revelation - DON'T read it as literally as you can. Believe it is all history. God gives you this freedom. He will give you as close to what you believe for as is possible for Him to do. However, since He IS coming back twice more, once FOR His bride and again WITH His bride, He will certainly not change His plans because you fail to believe Him. He will just allow you to remain behind and find out in person that the Beast of chapter 13 is still future.

It does not matter if you don't call Him "the antichrist." He is coming anyway. John called Him a leopard beast with the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. WHY? Because He will resemble Alexander the Great in His ability to wage very rapid warfare. He will resemble The Medes and Persians in their ability to amass huge numbers of troops. You do remember that Esther lived during the time of the Medes and Persians? And he will resemble Nebuchadnezzar in the things he will do. For example, he will build an IMAGE and force people to worship it, or be put to death. Finally, he will, as others before him, decide to WIPE OUT ISRAEL FOREVER. Israel as a nation has NEVER recognized Jesus as their Messiah, but the word TELLS US they will, and they will mourn for the one their Pierced.

You have been challenged before, and of course failed miserably to answer the challenge. I will give you another opportunity: if Revelation for the most part is HISTORY, then you should easily be able to PROVE IT by History. SHOW US what events in History fulfilled each of the trumpet judgments and vial judgments.

Good luck with that, for NO PRETERIST HAS EVER been able to do it, simply because these things have never happened yet. Well, just hang around a few more years, and you will get to see them take place exactly as they are written. You will not only see them, without a doubt you will be STUNG by one of those flying beasties that sting like scorpions. That is, IF you survive the "sudden destruction" that is coming before any of the trumpets.

LAMAD

Yes...well I don't need *luck* I don't believe in it. Nothing happens by luck.

I don't spiritualize anything that the scriptures don't. That you cannot see that Lamad is your issue, not mine. So if you think you have it right carry on with that...and your *star wars* eschatology.

Nothing else need to be said. I say Jesus ended the 70th week...you think not. So let's see if you're gone before the *beasties* are stinging.

BTW...I don't worry about stinging beasties...Jesus is my Raid!

 

[coraline]

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

You guys need to be VERY careful about how you teach this book to others.

Very careful. Personally, I refuse to pretend I know anything about Revelation until the appointed time and the prophecies therein are objectively identifiable.

Some of it is obvious, some of it is not.

Cheers

No one needs to worry about teaching about Revelation for "the appointed time when things are objectively identifiable"

If you read the rest of Rev 22 and (Rev.1:1) God said all the things within it must shortly take place.

There's nothing to add to that, period!

 

[L0U]

I believe as John tells us in 1 John 4:1-7 that antichrist already is...and has been in the world.

Yes, he does.

Do you realize John was writing this to 1 century Christians? He tells us how to identify antichrist as well as the "spirit of antichrist".

Yes, I do.

Again in 2 John 1, John is writing to the "chosen lady and her chidren", and he says in 2 John 1:7:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
So antichrist was already on the scene as John writes this.

Yes, he was and still is.

Now, do you have the source for this 'change' in the understanding of this subject?

 

[iamlamad]

Yes...well I don't need *luck* I don't believe in it. Nothing happens by luck.

I don't spiritualize anything that the scriptures don't. That you cannot see that Lamad is your issue, not mine. So if you think you have it right carry on with that...and your *star wars* eschatology.

Nothing else need to be said. I say Jesus ended the 70th week...you think not. So let's see if you're gone before the *beasties* are stinging.

BTW...I don't worry about stinging beasties...Jesus is my Raid!

Rev 9
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

This is in very plain English and nothing "spiritual" about it except perhaps an angel called a star fallen from heaven.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

Again very clear English....NO HINT that this is symbolic or should not be read plainly as written.

3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

Nothing symbolic here. It is to be taken very literally. Scorpions have power through their stings. Some scorpion's sting is deadly, and without a shot, a person will die within hours.

4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

Is this not to be taken literally? This is a JUDGMENT from God. These little beasties PURPOSE is to STING and torment. But they are no allowed to sting someone sealed: that is one of the 144,000 descendants of Jacob.

5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

Again VERY simple English. It is also a simple message: these are sent to TORMENT. Why torment? It is judgment. Hopefully to get men to repent.

6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.[/FONT]

Why would anyone even think this is not meant to be taken literally?

Another:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Nothing symbolic here. It is to be taken very literally.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Nothing symbolic here. It is to be taken very literally.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]These four angels were given an assignment with VERY PRECISE timing....a certain hour of a certain day of a certain month of a certain year.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Is this to be taken as symbolic? There is no hint that it should be. This is what John saw. We know normal horses do not have lion's heads. I don't think these are normal horses. Perhaps they are from heaven. I have had some say they are helicopters. However, these horses had RIDERS. Does this mean something entirely different than these words portray? I don't think so. There is no hint that this is symbolic.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Symbolic? If so, WHY? These are not earth horses. Normal horses do not have fire in their mouth. But these horses DO. Did John see tanks or helicopters? It is possible but I doubt it. 1/3 of mankind will be killed by these horses and riders.How can we possibly take this as symbolic? It says one third and we should believe it is true: 1/3 of earth's population will be killed in a very SHORT period of time.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]19 For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]This is giving us a message: these beasties are to HARM people!
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]These horses and riders are meant to KILL. It is judgment.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]This shows us the PURPOSE: it is to bring people to repentance.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I find NO REASON to assume all this is to mean something else. People change the clear meaning because they CANNOT BELIEVE what is written. When we look at the ABSOLUTE CLARITY that the prophecies of Jesus were fulfilled, why would anyone doubt that these will not be fulfilled with the same exact clarity? I am convinced, after these events happen people will remark about how close John came to reality.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I could go through all the trumpets and all the vials this way - but for what purpose? You are convinced they are history. I am convinced they are future, for common sense and history tells me NOTHING like this has ever happened on earth.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]LAMAD
[/FONT]

 

[iamlamad]

Yes, he does.



Yes, I do.



Yes, he was and still is.

Now, do you have the source for this 'change' in the understanding of this subject?

Do you BOTH realize it was the Holy Spirit using John to write. And the Holy Spirit was writing to all believers for all time.....not ONLY those in the first century.

LAMAD

 

[iamlamad]

No one needs to worry about teaching about Revelation for "the appointed time when things are objectively identifiable"

If you read the rest of Rev 22 and (Rev.1:1) God said all the things within it must shortly take place.

There's nothing to add to that, period!

Ha ha! God has a totally different view of "shortly" than you do! 2000 years has been "shortly."

LAMAD