3 equal 1?

[caller_to_truth]

Paulewog,

John 10:30:

When saying, "I and the Father are one," did Jesus mean that they were equal? Some Trinitarians say that he did. But at John 17:21, 22, Jesus prayed regarding his followers: "That they may all be one," and he added, "that they may be one even as we are one." He used the same Greek word (hen) for "one" in all these instances. Obviously, Jesus' disciples do not all become part of the Trinity. But they do come to share a oneness of purpose with the Father and the Son, the same sort of oneness that unites God and Christ.

Sincerely, Lared

To be one with some body does not necessary mean to be him
I am one with my father in Business we do business together.But I have not his authority and he does not have mine.The bank knows my fathers signature as one and mine as another
I do not sign for him or him for me, We are joint in partnership, either the checks have both signatures or one only either his or mine.But mine is not his and his not mine.
I do not bed my mother and he does not bed my wife.I eat and bath myself and he his.I cannot say my brothers are my children since they are my fathers and although my father loves his grandchildren at the end of the day they are his son's not his.SO how can he and i be the same person. I my fatther commits a crime do they come and take me in aswell.When i got married did my dada get married too.My dad is an old man and has diabetes I am a young man playing sports.If I ask my 7 year old daughter that she can explain it very clearly.So whay are you lot confused over the issue.
GET REAL IT IS TIME TO WAKE UP TO REALITY.
Peace

 

[caller_to_truth]

you believe he existed and that he was good. OK. why was the reason the jewish leaders wanted him dead? He supposedly 'blasphemed.' He called himself God. If he is good and doesnt lie, then he is who he claims to be.



God is one therefore I dont believe in a Trinity? (paraphrasing of course but true to what ur words were)

No one who believes in the Trinity believes in 3 Gods. No, we believe in one God. Three Divine Persons in One Divine Nature. consider a Family. Father, Mother and Child. Three distinct persons but One family.

Matthew
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
so why do you guys like to contradict the words of Jesus? Do you know better.He neither said he was good nor GOD
peace

 

[peaceful soul]

If you say Jesus is part of the trinity then you have to admit he was an angel
who was the Holy spirit
AN angel
Peace

That is an Islamic view of an angel being a holy spirit aka Gabriel. That is not true per Bible. In the Bible, an angel is an angel and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

 

[peaceful soul]

This Is John saying> Dare Any christian to show me where JESUS himself is saying i am god wiorship me.I can show you vesres where he is saying don't worship him
Peace

Please show us. And make sure that these are in context too.

 

[peaceful soul]

True but, I dont believe G-D killed him self and G-D duplicate/manifest himself into ungodly form (into mortal being).

First of all, God did not kill Himself. This was a prophetic ending that Christ's flesh would be crucified. When His flesh died, God did not cease to exist. The nature of God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit makes sense in such a scenario.

God's existence is a paradox. It goes against our human logic to understand. The paradox is that Jesus was totally God and totally a man simultaneoulsy. No, God was not mortal as you would think. He had a glorified body because He was yet God, but with human characteristics. He took on flesh to identify with us in our suffering (ref Isiah 53) and so that He could fulfill the promise that He made with the Father - death and resurrection as a means of purifying us spiritually. Christ left His heavenly throne to perform the covering for us - not to show off (Romans 3:20 - 25). He became our expiation and propiation.

The fact that we see God as perscribed in Bible (Triune nature) is an indication of why your statement is not something that our logic can comprehend. Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. He also spoke of paradoxes for a reason. That is because it is outside of our understanding of what God is. We can not comprehend the spiritual realm. It is hidden to us. Only God knows it. Once you stop lettting your logic rule your understanding and let the Holy Spirit minister to you, many things start to make sense; however, that does not mean that you can explain them with full comprehension, though.

Even in OT, God continually revealed Himself in stages. God revealed different parts of His nature to Abraham, Moses, David, Adam, etc. Look at the many names of God that were revealed at different times in Torah, for example: Jehova Jireh, Jehova Shalom, and Jehova Rofi. These new understandings of God came with specific circumstances of the people God dealt with. In those cases, God did not change - only our perception of Him did change and with new understanding. Understand?

God made different covenants with different people too. He made a covenant with Noah after the flood. He made a covenant with Abraham - a covenant of faith - which the NT is based upon. As you can see, God never intended for all of Himself to be revealed at once to us. He progressively revealed Himself, and the revelations did not stop with the Jews, as some of them seem to think. Jehova was not a God of the Jews only. They were only an oracle - mouthpiece - not the entire enchilada.

If you read the Bible, it makes sense that God was always more complex than we could comprehend. The Bible is just a means by which God shows His faithfulness to us so that we could trust Him as our Holy God. It was not a means of Him detailing every aspect of who He is. Does that make sense?

 

[Bilal]

Yup, who says it is something you can explain. The scripture says The father is God, christ is God and the holy spirit is God, it also says God is one, our only conclusion is that trinity exsists. I try to make sence of it by looking at ice, steam, water and vapor are all H2O but steam is not water, nor is it ice..

If Jesus is God and the same God, then how can he be killed???????
And when he was praying, as the Bible describes, in the Garden of Gethsemane, was he God praying himself or was he an independant person praying God????

 

[Bilal]

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son! To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs."

"And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. Certainly you have made an abominable assertion The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son. There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the Beneficent God as a servant. Certainly He has a comprehensive knowledge of them and He has numbered them a (comprehensive) numbering. And every one of them will come to Him on the day of resurrection.. alone."

"That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He but says to it " Be" , and it is."

"And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but he comes to the All-Merciful as a servant."

"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth, God suffices for a guardian."


He's not his son and he wasn't killed, nor crucified.

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not."

"..And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed; God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them."

love.

 

[peaceful soul]

If Jesus is God and the same God, then how can he be killed???????
And when he was praying, as the Bible describes, in the Garden of Gethsemane, was he God praying himself or was he an independant person praying God????

What you are dealing with is a paradoxical truth. Christianity is based upon many of those types of truths. They do not make sense to the human mind if intellectually persued, but the do in spiritual terms. There are spiritual laws that govern this world just as there are physical laws, and the only way that we can understand these laws is through the Bible, God's word for all of mankind.

When Jesus prayed, He was praying from a human perspective; for He was in flesh. He did not have the same authority as He did while occupying His throne in Heaven where He did not have to pray. Jesus temporarily gave up His throne in Heaven to come and save us. He did it voluntarily and out of His great love for us.

This plan to save mankind was already thought out before man was even created. God knew before He created man that He was taking a risk in letting man have free will; so, in Heaven, this great plan was devised just in case man failed to chose to obey his master. God had to give man free will because He had to allow His creation to choose Him. God wants love and He can not get love from His creation if He forces it to adhere to Him without freedom. Does that make sense? You can not love someone if you are not given the freedom to choose to act in that manner; otherwise the relationship is reduced to that of a puppet and a magician - control by a bunch of strings with no opportunity to move freely. The key here is that God, above all, wants love and can not get it if there is not a conscious choice to choose to obey.

The very 1st covering revealed in the Bible is the covering of Adam and Eve from their nakedness with animal skins after they 1st disobeyed (sinned) God. This was a shadow of things to come as Christ would be revealed. The killing of the animal produced blood shed and sacrafice (covering) - 2 key components in the covering ( atonement) of man. The covering up of Adam and Eve came as a response to their sins, as Christ was to become for all of us.

One important point you forgot is that Jesus was resurrected; so He did not stay a physical death; so, unlike all other men, He overtook the grave and lives forever. He died to be kin to us. He "kinned" Himself to us that He may bring us alive through resurrection - in spirit form.

 

[caller_to_truth]

That is an Islamic view of an angel being a holy spirit aka Gabriel. That is not true per Bible. In the Bible, an angel is an angel and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

so exactly who came to Mary to inform her that she was going to have a child was it not Gabriel.
peace

 

[caller_to_truth]

When Jesus prayed, He was praying from a human perspective; for He was in flesh. He did not have the same authority as He did while occupying His throne in Heaven where He did not have to pray. Jesus temporarily gave up His throne in Heaven to come and save us. He did it voluntarily and out of His great love for us.


One important point you forgot is that Jesus was resurrected; so He did not stay a physical death; so, unlike all other men, He overtook the grave and lives forever. He died to be kin to us. He "kinned" Himself to us that He may bring us alive through resurrection - in spirit form.

Did you hear this he left his throne for 33 something years to come to earth what happened to the world then.Who was running it and who was sustaining it.If he left his throne then who was he turning and praying to an empty throne.We mustn't say thing by emotion and let emotions Take away our Judgement GOD gave us a mind and we have to use it accordingly.Yes we love god but we don't overdo it.He temporarily left his throne to abase himself in this world He should have left it to elevate himself more. But hye never said he sent himself or he came down temporarily, he always said he was sent.Show me one verse of the Bible where he said i left my throne to come and save the world.
PLS us ethe mind god gave and don't be taken by emotions , you are contradicting yourself left , right and centre
Peace

 

[peaceful soul]

so exactly who came to Mary to inform her that she was going to have a child was it not Gabriel.
peace

Yes it was Gabriel; but let us analyze the situation further. As I said before, an angel is not the Holy Spirit. They two distinct entities.

Luk 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luk 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luk 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Luk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Gabriel gave the revelation and the Holy Spirit administered the conception. As verse 37 says, nothing is impossible with God. Look at the text in red and you will see the difference. Also, we see that Elizabeth was pregant with John the Baptist, who was born approximately 6 months before Jesus. John was born in spring - March or April - and Jesus in the fall - in September or October, near the feast of the Trumpets aka Rosh Hashana.

It is a false claim in Islam that equates angels with spirits. The Bible makes it clear. There is only one spirit that is true, and that is the Holy Spirit, which is God - not an angel.

 

[peaceful soul]

Did you hear this he left his throne for 33 something years to come to earth what happened to the world then.Who was running it and who was sustaining it.If he left his throne then who was he turning and praying to an empty throne.We mustn't say thing by emotion and let emotions Take away our Judgement GOD gave us a mind and we have to use it accordingly.Yes we love god but we don't overdo it.He temporarily left his throne to abase himself in this world He should have left it to elevate himself more. But hye never said he sent himself or he came down temporarily, he always said he was sent.Show me one verse of the Bible where he said i left my throne to come and save the world.
PLS us ethe mind god gave and don't be taken by emotions , you are contradicting yourself left , right and centre
Peace

I can see that this is turning out like all of the rest of the attempts to explain God. God exists in an environment foreign to us. We can not use logic only to understand this mystery. At some point, we have to concede that our minds can not grasp the complete picture. That is where the trust takes over and the faith is established based upon the Bible. You must understand that 1st.

Christ dies in the flesh does not mean that God dies and does not exist until Christ resurrects. The fact that Christ resurrected is proof that God was still there to cause this to happen. If God died, it does not seem logical to us that He could revive Himself.

God reveals Himself in 3 ways: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When we try to deduce doctrine based upon those things, we can easily go into error. As I told you before the existence of God is a paradoxical truth that we can not fully understand on a human level. God is too complex for our little brains to absorb. God's mission was to show us enough of who He is so that we could trust Him. That is what the Bible is about.

The part about the throne was to show you that He had power and authority in Heaven and that He lovingly gave that up to become mediator for us. The Father has full authority to keep order, after all, the Father is God also. The Son is God also. The Holy Spirit is God also. I will create another post to try to give you some understanding about God's throne.

The contradiction comes from your incomprehensibility of the matter. LIke I said before, you can not know God through the Bible with pure intellect. You need hours of study and the Holy Spirit guiding you to understanding. Unfortunately for you, you do not have the luxury of the Holy Spirit teaching you these things and helping you to understand. All I can do is to give you an overview. Questions like these are not one-line answers. Please keep this in mind.

Yes, Jesus was sent, but not by force. It was the Son that agreed to be sent. Understand now? There is an unconditional trust between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that makes this possible.

As far as emotions go, there are not any. I am very poised and under control. I am just typing in a casual manner and trying to help you to understand. I really appreciate that you are honestly trying to understand. That makes it much easier for both of us. One thing that I have learned from my relationship with God is that emotions, feelings, and other human conditions do not indicate my status with my master. I love Jesus and He teaches me to keep control of myself. He reminds me of the prize: it is at the finish line.

Shalom

 

[azri]

The Father has full authority to keep order, after all, the Father is God also. The Son is God also. The Holy Spirit is God also.

Again = 3 G-D ?!

The contradiction comes from your incomprehensibility of the matter. LIke I said before, you can not know God through the Bible with pure intellect. You need hours of study and the Holy Spirit guiding you to understanding. Unfortunately for you, you do not have the luxury of the Holy Spirit teaching you these things and helping you to understand.

...then G-D sent quran to clear the contradiction.

peace

 

[Kas]

How can 3 equal 1? Christians say that G-d is 3; G-d, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. But G-d can only be one He says so Himself. He is the one true G-d. No can be mediator between Him and those who believe in Him and follows His commandments.

If someone can explain this to me that would be great.

No problems...we see this phenomena in nature all the time and grasp it with no problems. The problems seem to start when we people talk about GOD...this strikes me as revealing of something. Namely that the problem is not actually the concept but what the concept is representative of...Christianity. Those rejecting Christianity seek to validate (just like Christians of other worldviews) there non-allegiance through argument.

If you can concieve of a triangle or any element that exists in three states (yes there is a way of having water exist as solid liquid and gas simultaneously) then you have concieved of a trinity...just, not the Holy Trinity.

GOD is GOD and above all parralels, he is not like anything which he has created, He in is fulness is above comparison. Part of our faith is the accepting that we can not understand in totality Him who is greater. Almighty GOD is a blessed Trinity-He showed us Himself-and He is certainly the only GOD there is, there is no other GOD but GOD: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Pax Tibi,
Kas.

 

[Kas]

...then G-D sent quran to clear the contradiction.

peace

Which existed eternally on stone tablets...doh...me thinks me see some Shirk here! Alas, two eternal existent things GOD and the Quran! Yeah man...you go tell us Christians we are confused.

People in glass houses should not throw stones!

Pax Tibi.

Kas.

 

[azri]

Which existed eternally on stone tablets...doh...me thinks me see some Shirk here! Alas, two eternal existent things GOD and the Quran! Yeah man...you go tell us Christians we are confused.

Quran is the written word of G-D (not G-D )

 

[caller_to_truth]

Which existed eternally on stone tablets...doh...me thinks me see some Shirk here! Alas, two eternal existent things GOD and the Quran! Yeah man...you go tell us Christians we are confused.

People in glass houses should not throw stones!

Pax Tibi.

Kas.

Quran is the book and Allah is the God i wish that opeople would be more informed about others peoples religions before just talking and makind like they know it all
but in reality they know nothing
peace

 

[caller_to_truth]

peace

 

[peaceful soul]

Again = 3 G-D ?!

...then G-D sent quran to clear the contradiction.

peace

Since you say that you do not understand, it must be wrong? It that the way we are going to see things now? As I said, there is no contradiction. While reading the Bible, it becomes clear that God has a form of a spirit, a father, and a son. Why is that a problem for you? Must God be exactly like you want Him in order for you to trust Him? That is the main issue here.

By your above statement, you are assuming at least 2 things: the Bible is not of God or that God makes mistakes. Which side are you on here?

 

[Kas]

Quran is the written word of G-D (not G-D )

But from the 8th century was deemed eternal like GOD, without beginning or end. This is Shirk...its also innovation. Two of the worst sins in Islam, right at the heart of Islam...a perfect religion forgive me as I sit and chuckle to my self!

Kas(who is chuckling )