2Thessalonians2:7 explained

[Douggg]

It is very doubtful that the Great Tribulation which will be the worst period of time on the Earth will gather new people to Jesus Christ...Quite the contrary that will be the exact opposite ,that will be the beginning of the great falling away from the faith of the actual believers whose only faith and hope was in the belief in the hypothetical rapture out of the Earth to avoid the GT.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The great falling away occurs first before the man of sin is revealed to be such by his going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

The great falling away from Christianity will be when Judaism's messiah arrives, the person who becomes the King of Israel, illegitimate, the Antichrist - will be so convincing that many in Christianity will depart Jesus and embrace the person as the messiah as well.

The great falling away will take place during the first half of the seven years. The church may still be here during that time, but there will be the great falling away.

Before the man of sin reveals himself to be such, the rapture will take place. Which could be near the middle third of the seven years - as a guess - if it has not already taken place before then.

When the rapture takes place, imo, there will be many who become Christians, although they missed the rapture.

 

[ScottA]

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


One of the last things Jesus said to the disciples....

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Nothing happens unless the Lord Jesus Christ allows it to happen, as all power has been given to him in heaven and in earth. The He who now letteth is the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is he who lets the man of sin be revealed.....

But not until he - the body of Christ - is taken out of the way, which is "the what" in verse 6.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Here is the meaning:

2 Thessalonians 2:6
And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

1 Corinthians 15:23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who areChrist’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end,

 

[Postvieww]

The explanation I presented does have scriptural support which I gave, Matthew 28:18 and Revelation 1:8. The litmus text for your theory is to substitute your explanation of who the "he" is in verse 7, as I have done below.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Lord Jesus Christ) who now letteth will let, until he
(the Lord Jesus Christ, his body here on earth, the church) be taken out of the way.

The three requirements for the "he" in that verse:
1. he, who now letteth - Jesus - who is given all power in heaven and in the earth to let things happen
2. he, who will let - Jesus - who will allow the man of sin to be revealed
3. he, to be taken out of the way - (Jesus) his body here on earth the church

What doesn't fit the "he" for all three requirements for the "he":
God the Father
The Holy Spirit
Michael, the angel
The church

Dougg said:

The explanation I presented does have scriptural support which I gave, Matthew 28:18 and Revelation 1:8. The litmus text for your theory is to substitute your explanation of who the "he" is in verse 7, as I have done below.

Disagree, neither Matthew 28:18 nor Revelation 1:8 support your theory. Matt. just states all power is given to Jesus Rev. just states Christ is the alpha and omega, the almighty. You assume Jesus is the restrainer because He has all power. Nothing ties the use of that power to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Lord Jesus Christ) who now letteth will let, until he

(the Lord Jesus Christ, his body here on earth, the church) be taken out of the way.

2 Thess. 2: 6 And now ye know what withholdeth ( Michael or another angel) that he (man of sin) might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (Michael or another angel) will let, until he ( Michael or another angel) be taken out of the way.

The three requirements for the "he" in that verse:

1. he, who now letteth - Jesus - who is given all power in heaven and in the earth to let things happen

Michael cast the dragon out of heaven Revelation 12:7-9. An angel cast satan into the bottomless pit Revelation 20:1-3. There are two scriptural examples of angels performing a task just like that in 2 Thess. Doesn’t have to be Michael but it could . Just because Jesus has all power does not prove he is the one in 2 Thess.

2. he, who will let - Jesus - who will allow the man of sin to be revealed

2. he who now letteth (Michael or another angel) Just adding the name Jesus or Michael does not make it so. I did give examples of angels carrying out such a task.

3. he, to be taken out of the way - (Jesus) his body here on earth the church

3. will let, until he ( Michael or another angel) be taken out of the way.

Michael works just as well as Jesus in this case, angels Have authority to carry out these type of things .

But we have gotten to the root of the matter in your 3rd point. You need to get the church out of here.


What doesn't fit the "he" for all three requirements for the "he":

God the Father

Well God the Father can’t be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit

You said in post #12 “When the believers depart, the Holy Spirit will still be here to draw men to Jesus and salvation” that rules Him out.

Michael, the angel

Fits nicely, you’ve shown no reason from scripture this cannot be the case.

The church

“Houston we have a problem” the church is going nowhere.

Dougg said post #21

The great falling away occurs first before the man of sin is revealed to be such by his going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

Agreed

The great falling away from Christianity will be when Judaism's messiah arrives, the person who becomes the King of Israel, illegitimate, the Antichrist - will be so convincing that many in Christianity will depart Jesus and embrace the person as the messiah as well.

Agreed, maybe.


The great falling away will take place during the first half of the seven years. The church may still be here during that time, but there will be the great falling away.

Maybe the falling away, although I believe we are seeing it right now, the church will be here.

Before the man of sin reveals himself to be such, the rapture will take place.

Not going to happen.

2 Thess. 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Both the falling away and the man of sin will be revealed before the gathering of verse 1.

Which could be near the middle third of the seven years - as a guess - if it has not already taken place before then.

Jesus said immediately after the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31

Paul said after the falling away and the man of sin is revealed 2 Thessalonians 2:3

When the rapture takes place, imo, there will be many who become Christians, although they missed the rapture.

When the rapture takes place it is over.

 

[Douggg]

Dougg said:

The explanation I presented does have scriptural support which I gave, Matthew 28:18 and Revelation 1:8. The litmus text for your theory is to substitute your explanation of who the "he" is in verse 7, as I have done below.

Disagree, neither Matthew 28:18 nor Revelation 1:8 support your theory. Matt. just states all power is given to Jesus Rev. just states Christ is the alpha and omega, the almighty. You assume Jesus is the restrainer because He has all power. Nothing ties the use of that power to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Lord Jesus Christ) who now letteth will let, until he

(the Lord Jesus Christ, his body here on earth, the church) be taken out of the way.

2 Thess. 2: 6 And now ye know what withholdeth ( Michael or another angel) that he (man of sin) might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (Michael or another angel) will let, until he ( Michael or another angel) be taken out of the way.

The three requirements for the "he" in that verse:

1. he, who now letteth - Jesus - who is given all power in heaven and in the earth to let things happen

Michael cast the dragon out of heaven Revelation 12:7-9. An angel cast satan into the bottomless pit Revelation 20:1-3. There are two scriptural examples of angels performing a task just like that in 2 Thess. Doesn’t have to be Michael but it could . Just because Jesus has all power does not prove he is the one in 2 Thess.

2. he, who will let - Jesus - who will allow the man of sin to be revealed

2. he who now letteth (Michael or another angel) Just adding the name Jesus or Michael does not make it so. I did give examples of angels carrying out such a task.

3. he, to be taken out of the way - (Jesus) his body here on earth the church

3. will let, until he ( Michael or another angel) be taken out of the way.

Michael works just as well as Jesus in this case, angels Have authority to carry out these type of things .

But we have gotten to the root of the matter in your 3rd point. You need to get the church out of here.


What doesn't fit the "he" for all three requirements for the "he":

God the Father

Well God the Father can’t be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit

You said in post #12 “When the believers depart, the Holy Spirit will still be here to draw men to Jesus and salvation” that rules Him out.

Michael, the angel

Fits nicely, you’ve shown no reason from scripture this cannot be the case.

The church

“Houston we have a problem” the church is going nowhere.

Dougg said post #21

The great falling away occurs first before the man of sin is revealed to be such by his going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

Agreed

The great falling away from Christianity will be when Judaism's messiah arrives, the person who becomes the King of Israel, illegitimate, the Antichrist - will be so convincing that many in Christianity will depart Jesus and embrace the person as the messiah as well.

Agreed, maybe.


The great falling away will take place during the first half of the seven years. The church may still be here during that time, but there will be the great falling away.

Maybe the falling away, although I believe we are seeing it right now, the church will be here.

Before the man of sin reveals himself to be such, the rapture will take place.

Not going to happen.

2 Thess. 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Both the falling away and the man of sin will be revealed before the gathering of verse 1.

Which could be near the middle third of the seven years - as a guess - if it has not already taken place before then.

Jesus said immediately after the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31

Paul said after the falling away and the man of sin is revealed 2 Thessalonians 2:3

When the rapture takes place, imo, there will be many who become Christians, although they missed the rapture.

When the rapture takes place it is over.

No way that Michael works. Michael is not the one who lets things happen. Michael carries out orders given to him. Michael has no power in determining the timing of future events. The "he" is verse 7 is the decider.

Michael also has not been letting the mystery of iniquity already at work even back in Paul's time. Michael doesn't have that kind of power.

The war in heaven in Revelation 12:7, takes place after the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6, corresponding to the 1260 days of the two witnesses - who are killed by the beast. Therefore the man of sin has already revealed himself before the war in heaven takes place. The war in heaven is after the man of sin has been revealed, killed for it, becomes the beast, then kills the two witnesses.

The person who decides that Satan and his angels shall be cast down is the Lord Jesus Christ (Ezekiel 28:16). Not Michael. Michael and his angels will fight the war, but not as the decider to take action.

 

[Riberra]

The great falling away occurs first before the man of sin is revealed to be such by his going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

Both the falling away AND the revealing of the man of sin will happen BEFORE the day of OUR GATHERING unto Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND by our GATHERING together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

When the rapture takes place, imo, there will be many who become Christians, although they missed the rapture.

As pointed out by Postwiew when the rapture will occurs it will be to late.
Keep in mind that the rapture is nothing else than our caught up together in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air UNTO THE COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Thessalonians 2:1).

 

[Riberra]

The war in heaven in Revelation 12:7, takes place after the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6, corresponding to the 1260 days of the two witnesses - who are killed by the beast.

The two witnesses will be killed by the beast that ASCENDETH OUT of the BOTTOMLESS PIT (Revelation 11:7).
-- Satan have not even been cast out of Heaven at this point ---The AC receiving the mortal wound have not happened yet and the man of sin entering the temple saying that he is god.have not happenned yet neither.

Revelation 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 

[Douggg]

Both the falling away AND the revealing of the man of sin will happen BEFORE the day of OUR GATHERING unto Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND by our GATHERING together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Riberra, I think you have the wrong reference for "day" in verse 3. The Verse 3 "day" refers to verse 2 the day of Christ.

As pointed out by Postwiew when the rapture will occurs it will be to late.
Keep in mind that the rapture is nothing else than our caught up together in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air UNTO THE COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Thessalonians 2:1).

Too late for what? To take part in the rapture? Yes, if that is what you mean. But if you mean that after the rapture, it is too late to become a Christian, you need to provide some scriptural statement of that notion.

 

[Douggg]

The two witnesses will be killed by the beast that ASCENDETH OUT of the BOTTOMLESS PIT (Revelation 11:7).
-- Satan have not even been cast out of Heaven at this point --- the man of sin entering the temple saying that he is god.have not happenned yet neither.

Right, the two witnesses are killed by the beast, before Satan is cast down out of the second heaven. Which should tell you that Satan is not the beast, nor the man of sin.

When does the person become the beast? It is not until after he has been mortally wounded. Which he will be killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10 for becoming magnified in his heart that he has achieved God-hood and "sitteth" in the seat of God in Ezekiel 28:2 (it is describing the action of the man of sin revealing himself sitting in the temple of God in 2thessalonians2:3-4).

He is the sequence of the person's stages:
1. Little horn
2. The Antichrist
3. The revealed man of sin (killed and brought back to life as the beast)
4. The beast (possessed by the unclean spirit from the bottomless pit) who will kill the two witnesses.

That's it. Satan is a different person. He is cast down after the person has gone through stage 3 and has killed the two witnesses in stage 4.

The sequence of the person's stages, from earliest till when he meets his end at Jesus's return.

1. Little horn..................................................................Jesus's return
........2. The Antichrist.....................................................Jesus's return
................3. The revealed man of sin...............................Jesus's return
........................4. The beast...........................................Jesus's return

 

[Riberra]

Riberra, I think you have the wrong reference for "day" in verse 3. The Verse 3 "day" refers to verse 2 the day of Christ.

The day of Christ in verse 2 refers to the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our Gathering unto Him mentionned in verse 1.

Too late for what? To take part in the rapture? Yes, if that is what you mean.
But if you mean that after the rapture, it is too late to become a Christian, you need to provide some scriptural statement of that notion.

To late to became a Christian because when we will be gathered unto Jesus at His COMING (2 Thessalonians 2:1) that will be the END.(Matthew 24:29-31)and the destruction of the wicked Revelation 19.

 

[Riberra]

Right, the two witnesses are killed by the beast, before Satan is cast down out of the second heaven. Which should tell you that Satan is not the beast.

When does the person become the beast? It is not until after he has been mortally wounded. Which he will be killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10 for becoming magnified in his heart that he has achieved God-hood and "sitteth" in the seat of God in Ezekiel 28:2 (it is describing the action of the man of sin revealing himself sitting in the temple of God in 2thessalonians2:3-4).

He is the sequence of the person's stages:
1. Little horn
2. The Antichrist
3. The revealed man of sin (killed and brought back to life as the beast)
4. The beast (possessed by the unclean spirit from the bottomless pit)

That's it. Satan is a different person.

Satan will enter the body (satanic possession)of whomever will personify the AC when the AC will receive the mortal wound at the head and come back to life ---at this point the AC will become the man of sin ...and will commit the act of entering the Temple and declare that he is God.

Revelation 13
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

 

[Winken]

I'm sure glad I won't be here. In Him is Perfect Rest.

 

[Riberra]

I'm sure glad I won't be here. In Him is Perfect Rest.

If you are not alive at that moment.
If you expect to be taken out of the Earth to Heaven while you are still alive before these events will happen you are not basing that hope on Scriptures......nowhere it is written in the Bible that you will be taken out of the Earth to Heaven while you are still alive to avoid the Tribulation.

 

[Douggg]

The day of Christ in verse 2 refers to the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our Gathering unto Him mentionned in verse 1.

In the KJV, I don't read anything about a "day" in verse 1.

The day in verse 3, I think we at least agree is the day of Christ in verse 2.

 

[Douggg]

Satan will enter the body (satanic possession)of whomever will personify the AC when the AC will receive the mortal wound at the head and come back to life ---at this point the AC will become the man of sin ...and will commit the act of entering the Temple and declare that he is God.

Revelation 13
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Where in Revelation are you reading anything about anyone going into the temple of God, sitting, claiming to be God?

Where are you reading the term Antichrist in Revelation?

Where is the little horn term in Revelation?

Those are not there because Revelation is concerned mostly with the person after he has become the beast.

Look at the bulk of Revelation. It is mostly about the timeframe called the great tribulation.

 

[ml5363]

Riberra, I think you have the wrong reference for "day" in verse 3. The Verse 3 "day" refers to verse 2 the day of Christ.



Too late for what? To take part in the rapture? Yes, if that is what you mean. But if you mean that after the rapture, it is too late to become a Christian, you need to provide some scriptural statement of that notion.

yes i have been taught the 144000 is those that will be sent out for last attempt to save the jews...not that only 144000 will be saved..so then people will be saved after that...they will just have to endure some of the tribulation..where as those whose are saved before hand are spared that..Thank God

 

[Riberra]

Where in Revelation are you reading anything about anyone going into the temple of God, sitting, claiming to be God?

Where are you reading the term Antichrist in Revelation?

Where is the little horn term in Revelation?

Those are not there because Revelation is concerned mostly with the person after he has become the beast.

Exactly....
Revelation 13 tell about the revealing of -the one- that will want to be worshipped as he was God to which time allowed will be 42 months untill the coming of Jesus....Relating this to Daniel's prophecy about the abomination ie the man of sin entering the temple and declare that he is God and setting an image of himself in the temple.

Look at the bulk of Revelation. It is mostly about the timeframe called the great tribulation.

That's right...the great tribulation which will begin shortly after the 6Th Seal and 7Th Seal events....

 

[Riberra]

In the KJV, I don't read anything about a "day" in verse 1.

The day in verse 3, I think we at least agree is the day of Christ in verse 2.

It does not have to be mentioned in verse 1,we know that the subject is about the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering unto Him 2 Thessalonians 2:1....this is the Day of Christ mentionned in verse 2 and 3.

 

[Riberra]

yes i have been taught the 144000 is those that will be sent out for last attempt to save the jews...not that only 144000 will be saved..so then people will be saved after that...they will just have to endure some of the tribulation..where as those whose are saved before hand are spared that..Thank God

Being saved does not mean being taken out of the Earth to Heaven before the Great Tribulation.If it is on that "rapturist cult mantra" that your faith is based, then you have been fooled and demonstrate that you don't know Jesus' gospel.

Salvation is the opposite of damnation into the lake of fire for the wicked unrepentants sinners who have refused Jesus Christ as being their Savior.

 

[GoodGRACEshus]

“As you sit in your seat each Sunday, regardless of the sign on the church door, you’re joined by folks from Thyatira. They’re the ones who add to the Gospel: Jesus plus someone or something else, grace plus works, scripture plus tradition. There are also some from Sardis. They subtract from the Gospel. “You don’t need to be born again, just join the church, give some time and money, you’ll be fine.” And then there’s the group from Laodicea. “Jesus was a great man and teacher, and lived a life of such gentleness and grace that it’s ALMOST as if he was God. Just love everybody like he did. The good life you live is an obvious sign of your favor with God, and everyone knows there’s no real heaven, I mean come on.”

"But if you know you’re a sinner and have given your heart to Jesus because He gave His life for you, then you’re from Philadelphia. There may be some others there with you, but you’ll never really know for sure how many till you all vanish together some day soon. And don’t be surprised when you’re joined by some who’re Catholic, some who’re Protestant, some conservatives, some liberals, and even some who didn’t appear to attend any church at all. After all it’s not what you say you are, but what you believe in your heart that matters.”

 

[Douggg]

Exactly....
Revelation 13 tell about the revealing of -the one- that will want to be worshipped as he was God to which time allowed will be 42 months untill the coming of Jesus....Relating this to Daniel's prophecy about the abomination ie the man of sin entering the temple and declare that he is God and setting an image of himself in the temple.

Which abomination prophecy in Daniel ? There are two. The abomination of transgression which is in Daniel 8:12-13. And the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11-12. Two different abominations.

The abomination of desolation of Daniel 12 is in Revelation 13 as the image that the false prophet has the world make, an object.

The abomination of transgression in Daniel 8:12-13 is not in Revelation. And is the the 2thessalonians2:3-4 act. Transgression is an act by someone who violates the Mt. Sinai covenant in a major way - which in the case of 2thessaloinians2:3-4 is the man of sin's act of sitting in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

That's right...the great tribulation which will begin shortly after the 6Th Seal and 7Th Seal events....

The great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation takes place. It doesn't specifically say in Revelation 6.

The 7th seal opens the telling of the end times events of the great tribulation of what will take place. The 7th seal being opened does not mean those events textually in Chapter7 follow the 6th seal event in Chapter 6 as a matter on a timeline. Seals 1-6, differently, are sequential and are timeline events to each other.