280 Weeks are Determined

Zao is life · Nov 5, 2020

BABerean2 said:
You are the one who brought up the Amill doctrine on this thread, instead of me.

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No, Chris was the one who brought up Amil in this thread when he listed Amil among the list of things which have ramiifications in the light of the facts he is producing. I was quoting his post, and talking to him about what his post said, not anyone else's. You were quoting my post instead of his post and turning the subject away from his posts. Let's stay on topic in Chris' thread. Not only is it fair, but what he has to say is really important. For those who've never been made aware of Chris' topic, they'll see God working through scripture in a way they never realized God was working. It's a revelation hidden beneath the pages of the revelation contained in the Old Testament scriptures. It's the lost treasure that no one realized was lost until Chris discovered it.

BABerean2 · Nov 5, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
Let's stay on topic in Chris' thread. Not only is it fair, but what he has to say is really important.

Amen, to the above.

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jgr · Nov 5, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
Thanks for pointing that out, jgr - I've also normally referred to that ruler as "the prince who shall come and destroy the sanctuary", but some English Bibles translate it as "the ruler who shall come" and the YLT as "the leader who shall come". We know that it was the Roman General, Titus, who later became Emperor/Caesar, and the original Hebrew word is very accurate:

[*StrongsHebrew* 5057]
נגד נגיד
nâgîyd nâgid {naw-gheed'} naw-gheed'
From H5046; a commander (as occupying the {front}) {civil} military or religious; generally (abstract {plural}) honorable themes: - {captain} {chief} excellent {thing} (chief) {governor} {leader} {noble} {prince} (chief) ruler.

Thanks FotG. "Prince" is the identical Hebrew word, which you've shown, in both instances in the passage. Titus was a prince, but he was under the command and control of Messiah the Prince. Messiah satisfies the referent chain extending from "prince" in Daniel 9:25 and Daniel 9:26, to "he" in Daniel 9:27.

Christian Gedge · Nov 6, 2020

RAMIFICATIONS FOR SABBATH THEORIES (1)

In recent times there has been a spate of end-time books about the Shemitah. (Sabbatical year) Up until a few years ago prophecy buffs never mentioned it, but Rabbi Jonathan Cahn changed all that with his publication of The Harbinger and Mystery of the Shemitah. In brief, he continues the seven-year cycle saying that all nations - not just Jews - should be following it. Those who do not will face God's judgement???

As you know, I love studying the Old Testament ‘sevens.’ But in no way was it meant to continue beyond its fulfillment in Christ our rest. Moreover, its termination is prophesied in Daniel when he said, “70 (more) weeks are determined.” That’s it! the times of Jacob end; the times of the Gentiles begin!

Does the pattern of 49 and 490 years unearth any more significant events when counted beyond AD 34? I haven’t seen any? That is because Sabbath keeping was uniquely applicable to Israel and we are now under a new covenant.

My request to Sabbatarians is that they worship on whatever day they please (Romans 14:5) but do not try to enforce shabuwa on the rest of us. Also, it is wrong to use ancient Sabbatic formulas to predict future dates. The times of the Gentiles only God knows and he won’t tell.

Douggg · Nov 6, 2020

Christian Gedge said:
RAMIFICATIONS FOR SABBATH THEORIES (1)

In recent times there has been a spate of end-time books about the Shemitah. (Sabbatical year) Up until a few years ago prophecy buffs never mentioned it, but Rabbi Jonathan Cahn changed all that with his publication of The Harbinger and Mystery of the Shemitah. In brief, he continues the seven-year cycle saying that all nations - not just Jews - should be following it. Those who do not will face God's judgement???

As you know, I love studying the Old Testament ‘sevens.’ But in no way was it meant to continue beyond its fulfillment in Christ our rest. Moreover, its termination is prophesied in Daniel when he said, “70 (more) weeks are determined.” That’s it! the times of Jacob end; the times of the Gentiles begin!

Does the pattern of 49 and 490 years unearth any more significant events when counted beyond AD 34? I haven’t seen any? That is because Sabbath keeping was uniquely applicable to Israel and we are now under a new covenant.

My request to Sabbatarians is that they worship on whatever day they please (Romans 14:5) but do not try to enforce shabuwa on the rest of us. Also, it is wrong to use ancient Sabbatic formulas to predict future dates. The times of the Gentiles only God knows and he won’t tell.

The Lord's day in Christianity is Sunday because Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, a Sunday. Which our resurrection/rapture may happen on a Sunday as well. Which I say to myself, a little song...

early Sunday morning, Christ came without warning...

came without warning....

for a poor boy like me.

My advice is to walk humbly before God. Love God. And praise God. Thank God.

Christian Gedge · Nov 8, 2020

RAMIFICATIONS FOR AMILLENIALISTS (1)

The most popular topics on this forum concern the millennium. Let me enter the fray as to how it is impacted by the ‘Times of the Gentiles’ which follow the ‘Times of Jacob’ (the weeks).

As we know, the number 1000 represents ‘very, very many’. (very many years, very many hills, very many people etc.) No, it’s not supposed to have an unbending, literal interpretation. So, Amills have no problem with Revelation 20:2 spanning the age between the comings of Christ. But while defending their ‘realised millennium’, Amills become hazy concerning the opposite symbolic number representing ‘very few years’.

Here is another simple timeline – I’ll be back to talk about the short number.

Douggg · Nov 8, 2020

Christian Gedge said:
As we know, the number 1000 represents ‘very, very many’. (very many years, very many hills, very many people etc.)

I would say the number 1000 (years) is considered or indicates very yery many (years).

The propblem with saying the number 1000 "represents" very, very many - is that 1000 is very specific, while very, very many is generalized.

Timtofly · Nov 8, 2020

Douggg said:
I would say the number 1000 (years) is considered or indicates very yery many (years).

The propblem with saying the number 1000 "represents" very, very many - is that 1000 is very specific, while very, very many is generalized.

That is the problem with taking a literal fact and turning it into a symbolism. Now a specific fact can be used by false magicians to mean whatever they say it means, while forcing their opponent to "just forget about what God says".

BABerean2 · Nov 9, 2020

Douggg said:
I would say the number 1000 (years) is considered or indicates very yery many (years).

The propblem with saying the number 1000 "represents" very, very many - is that 1000 is very specific, while very, very many is generalized.

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

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Christian Gedge · Nov 10, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Thanks BaB. Yes, the number 1000 represents ‘very, very many’. It is used for a number of things - not just years. The book of Revelation also uses it in conjunction with the symbolic meaning of number 12.

12 × 12 × 1000 meaning the vast number of God’s people. (Rev. 7)

There is a symbolic short number too. I’ll try to get back to this soon.

Douggg · Nov 10, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

.

What you are not taking into consideration is Revelation has numerous references to specific timeframes, that the 1000 years would not just be a figure of speech.

Which, differently, "the cattle upon a thousand hills" is obviously.

Douggg · Nov 10, 2020

Christian Gedge said:
Thanks BaB. Yes, the number 1000 represents ‘very, very many’. It is used for a number of things - not just years. The book of Revelation also uses it in conjunction with the symbolic meaning of number 12.

12 × 12 × 1000 meaning the vast number of God’s people. (Rev. 7)

There is a symbolic short number too. I’ll try to get back to this soon.

It is a thousand years in Revelation 20. Not just a thousand by itself.

BABerean2 · Nov 10, 2020

Douggg said:
It is a thousand years in Revelation 20. Not just a thousand by itself.

There is also a "dragon" in Revelation 20.
Would that be a giant flying lizard, or is it symbolic of Satan?

There is also a "chain" in the chapter.
Would that be a steel chain like one from the hardware store, or would it be symbolic?

There is also a "prison" in the chapter.
Would that be a room made of rock with steel bars, or is it symbolic of something else?

.

grafted branch · Nov 10, 2020

Christian Gedge said:
Thanks BaB. Yes, the number 1000 represents ‘very, very many’. It is used for a number of things - not just years. The book of Revelation also uses it in conjunction with the symbolic meaning of number 12.

12 × 12 × 1000 meaning the vast number of God’s people. (Rev. 7)

There is a symbolic short number too. I’ll try to get back to this soon.

So I don’t know if this fits into what you’re thoughts are on the “many” and “few” years (times of the Gentiles and times Jacob); but I have observed that the Gentiles are not counted while Israel is.

For example in Revelation 11:1-2 the temple and them that worship therein are measured but the court which is without is given to the Gentiles and is not measured. Also in Revelation 7 the 144,000 are number of the tribes of Israel, while in verse 9 there is a great multitude of all nations that no man can number.

Douggg · Nov 10, 2020

BABerean2 said:
There is also a "dragon" in Revelation 20.
Would that be a giant flying lizard, or is it symbolic of Satan?

There is also a "chain" in the chapter.
Would that be a steel chain like one from the hardware store, or would it be symbolic?

There is also a "prison" in the chapter.
Would that be a room made of rock with steel bars, or is it symbolic of something else?

.

Have you become an idealist?

Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.

mkgal1 · Nov 10, 2020

Douggg said:
Have you become an idealist?

Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.

Does this response mean you take those terms literally (dragon, chain, prison)?

Idealists see Revelation as just a basic good vs evil that can apply to all sorts of situations and times. Recognizing that much of Revelation is symbolic doesn't make one an Idealist.

Marilyn C · Nov 10, 2020

BABerean2 said:
There is also a "dragon" in Revelation 20.
Would that be a giant flying lizard, or is it symbolic of Satan?

.

`So the great dragon was cast out, THAT serpent of old, CALLED THE DEVIL AND SATAN..` (Rev. 12: 9)

Marilyn C · Nov 10, 2020

Christian Gedge said:
Hang on, hang on a minute.

RAMIFICATIONS FOR FUTURISTS (3)

I have to mention this first even if it’s becoming obvious by now. Since the count of weeks end with God’s inclusion of the Gentiles (Romans 15:8-9) it leaves the 70th week where it belongs – straight after the 69th one.

My request to Futurists is that they accept the natural count of ‘sevens’ and get rid of their future 70th week theory. It’s done credibility of prophecy a lot of damage and is time to get the toss.

Now let’s see if I can get my picture up properly.

View attachment 287949

Hi Chris,

You seem to have missed out Zechariah 9: 9 with Luke 19: 19 - 44, where God explains that Jesus is recognised as the Prince, King riding on a foal of a donkey. And that we know is Palm Sunday. That is the end of the 69 `weeks.`

Christian Gedge · Nov 10, 2020

grafted branch said:
So I don’t know if this fits into what you’re thoughts are on the “many” and “few” years (times of the Gentiles and times Jacob); but I have observed that the Gentiles are not counted while Israel is.

Where do you place the 'Times of the Gentiles?'

Christian Gedge · Nov 10, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Hi Chris,

You seem to have missed out Zechariah 9: 9 with Luke 19: 19 - 44, where God explains that Jesus is recognised as the Prince, King riding on a foal of a donkey. And that we know is Palm Sunday. That is the end of the 69 `weeks.`

69 weeks is 483 years. Palm Sunday was in 30 AD. So, the decree that started the count would have had to be 454 BC. However, nothing of significance happened in that year.

Others say Palm Sunday was in 33 AD. So, the decree that started the count would have had to be 451 BC. However, nothing of significance happened in that year either.

Have you heard of Sir Robert Anderson? He was the founder of the Palm Sunday theory - a bunny trail unfortunately. You need to give it the toss.

280 Weeks are Determined

Are you interested in the 280 weeks?

Not particularly. I’ll just read along.

Yep, let’s do a live Zoom Meeting.

Yep, but just continue on this thread.

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