20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[Timtofly]

Let's clarify terms here. When I think of the term "rapture" I think of 1 Thess 4:13-17 and that it specifically talks about all believers (resurrected and alive) meeting the Lord in the air.

The mystery that Paul talked about in 1 Cor 15:50-54 was not regarding us being gathered and meeting the Lord in the air when He returns, but rather was specifically related to the fact that we all will be changed to have glorified, immortal bodies "at the last trumpet".

1 Cor 50
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.

In terms of us being gathered together when Christ returns, Paul never said that was a mystery. Because it wasn't. Jesus taught about that in Matt 24:29-31 (Mark 13:26-27).

The mystery is we shall not all sleep. Or in 1st century terms, not all die. No one dies in Christ. That is the mystery. Physical death is not the end. It is the beginning of life. You want that beginning to postpone from death to the final judgment. It is not postponed. All who are in Christ at the moment of the Cross could no longer die nor sleep. All the OT was instantly changed. Then at physical death those alive were instantly changed. There is no waiting for the change. What is waiting is the glorification. The change was corruption to incorruption. The glorification is rejoining with our spirit, immortality and the completed son of God image. Soul, body, and spirit as one.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Now you are saying Satan does not exist, neither does wickedness.

Why do you deliberately lie about what others write? Are you not convicted about that? When did I or any Amil say that?

 

[Timtofly]

I don't know what you mean by your question. Can you clarify it?

Your claim to TFOTG was he cannot use certain verses in John because they were spiritual. His audience was unbelieving religious Jews. Jesus was not talking about the spiritual church to them. He was talking about literal physical resurrection. He even proved it later by calling Lazarus out of the tomb. So you cannot use a physical resurrection specific to unbelievers and apply it to believers. You cannot take every verse with the word raised or resurrection and apply them to the same topic. You have to go by context. All the dead will be raised. What verse can you use to prove they apply to the church separate from those outside of the church? I do not see a single verse that claims the church has a bodily resurrection. Not even the two famous chapters of Paul. Those who are dead in Christ have been raised first since the thief on the cross. Because the new life is no longer physical at death. This body only returns to dust. It has already been changed to an incorruptible body for those who are in Paradise, at the time of the Cross, and every day since that day. If there are any alive in Christ at the 6th seal, they will be changed then, but they have not prevented the dead from already being raised and changed.

If you or any amil say that is not what it literally says or means, perhaps one should not be so strict on what a thousand years is "not" in Revelation 20. Paul is using spiritual metaphor, because he is talking to believers who understand the symbolism. Paul is not using literal pagan terms, and neither did John in Revelation 20. I cringe when amil keep saying mortals and immortals. You all sound like a Greek mythology play.

 

[Timtofly]

Why do you deliberately lie about what others write? Are you not convicted about that? When did I or any Amil say that?

Because I am trying to figure out your post. You claim stuff, but so ambiguously and only point out my faults, that I am just guessing at your points.

 

[Timtofly]

Rapture is not in the Bible. It is a man-made term.

It is easier for some to understand than the word 1000 which is in the Bible, no?

Please give me the word you prefer when we alive in Christ rise into the air. Or do you plan on staying on the ground when it is dissolving?

 

[Timtofly]

God slew unfaithful disobedient Jews by the thousands.

Do you think they were His chosen people?

God killed Adam, was he not the first chosen son of God? God killing people does not seem to change the fact of being chosen one bit.

 

[jgr]

God killed Adam, was he not the first chosen son of God? God killing people does not seem to change the fact of being chosen one bit.

He didn't slay faithful obedient Jews.

So being a Jew was irrelevant to being chosen or not.

 

[jgr]

God killed Adam, was he not the first chosen son of God? God killing people does not seem to change the fact of being chosen one bit.

Cite the Scripture in which God kills Adam.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Because I am trying to figure out your post. You claim stuff, but so ambiguously and only point out my faults, that I am just guessing at your points.

Just because you are on a discussion board does not absolve you from keeping to the truth. You are still accountable before God. You do this a lot.

 

[Timtofly]

Cite the Scripture in which God kills Adam.

Genesis 2:17

 

[jgr]

Genesis 2:17

Genesis 5:5.

 

[Timtofly]

He didn't slay faithful obedient Jews.
So being a Jew was irrelevant to being chosen or not.

Being a Jew has all the relevance of being chosen, since they are the only people on earth who were.

 

[Timtofly]

Genesis 5:5.

He did not eat the fruit in Genesis 5:5, did he?

 

[jgr]

Being a Jew has all the relevance of being chosen, since they are the only people on earth who were.

OT Israel was comprised from its birth of both Jews and Gentiles. (Genesis 17:12)

God extended His Covenant equally and impartially to the faithful and obedient, both Jew and Gentile.

Their physical DNA was irrelevant.

Their spiritual DNA was fully relevant.

 

[jgr]

He did not eat the fruit in Genesis 5:5, did he?

He did not physically die in Genesis 2:17, did he?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The mystery is we shall not all sleep. Or in 1st century terms, not all die. No one dies in Christ. That is the mystery. Physical death is not the end. It is the beginning of life. You want that beginning to postpone from death to the final judgment. It is not postponed. All who are in Christ at the moment of the Cross could no longer die nor sleep. All the OT was instantly changed. Then at physical death those alive were instantly changed. There is no waiting for the change. What is waiting is the glorification. The change was corruption to incorruption. The glorification is rejoining with our spirit, immortality and the completed son of God image. Soul, body, and spirit as one.

Sorry, but I just cannot follow what you're saying here. Seems like you're saying the change Paul talked about in 1 Cor 15:50-54 already happened? Do you think the last trumpet already sounded?

 

[Timtofly]

He did not physically die in Genesis 2:17, did he?

God did not lie, so yes.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry, but I just cannot follow what you're saying here. Seems like you're saying the change Paul talked about in 1 Cor 15:50-54 already happened? Do you think the last trumpet already sounded?

Which change? I would say the rapture has not happened yet.

 

[jgr]

God did not lie, so yes.

Then Genesis 5:5 must be a lie.

 

[BABerean2]

Being a Jew has all the relevance of being chosen, since they are the only people on earth who were.

Ruth was a Moabite, who married the son of Rahab the harlot.

Both were chosen by God.
.