2 wings of an eagle?

[RandyPNW]

But you are missing the real reason, its not about John, God supernaturally stopped the Roman's from killing him, so says the legend, and we know Jesus told all the disciples they would die a martyr save for John. So, Jesus had to get the early church off the ground, the worst way to accomplish this was to give them a book that seemed to the Roman's to be treasonous, so instead of naming Rome it was called the Fourth Beast or the 7 Headed Beast with the 6th head being Rome. Instead of saying the world was going to be judged (Rome felt they were the world) God used Babylon, this of course was humorous to the Romans, God was going to judge and destroy a dead city.

Brother, I was not just making this about John. I was saying the same thing you just did, that God did not want John to appear to be treasonous. But I do think it would've been suicidal for John to disobey God and identify Rome, thus "testing God."

However, you make the more important point, that a good Christian witness would not deliberately stir someone up and cause misunderstanding. Under the Law, Israel was not to put stumbling blocks up behind someone.

God didn't call the 4th Beast "Rome" by name when the dream was given to Daniel because Rome had not yet come into view from Daniel's perspective. God of course knew it would eventually be called "Rome." But that was not important. I think God likely did not want these empires to be identified by name, except that he did identify the 1st empire, since Nebuchadnezzar was given the initial dream about this.

But from the way this succession of empires was related, the fourth Empire would be the fourth after Babylon. And as we apparently both agree, John knew the 4th Empire was Rome, and was not led to name it for his readers.

I think the word "Babylon" is used as a cryptic reference to Rome in the book of Revelation because it was the 1st of the 4 empires Daniel listed, and would lead knowledgeable readers to understand the train of empires leading to "the city that rules over the world."

In identifying this city as such, Roman readers might think he was speaking of Rome except for the fact he had identified it as "Mystery Babylon." Less knowledgeable readers in Rome would not understand the significance and think John was speaking of the city of Babylon, which was no longer of any consequence.

Also, if God had used Israel instead of the woman or 144,000, seeing as Rome had just destroyed Jerusalem and carried the Jews away. that would have also been seen as treasonous, in both cases they would have confiscated the book of Revelation and jailed or killed those church members, early on this would have hindered the church, Rome only started killing the church in mass in the 3rd century.

Interesting point! I hadn't thought of that. I may very well adopt some of that perspective. I appreciate it (if it's true).

Mentioning obsolete tribes would disguise any reference to the nation Israel, particularly since 144,000 would've been something less than an actual nation. But Christians would've understood that the 12 tribes had merged into the nation, thus fulfilling God's promise to all 12 tribes that they would have an inheritance in the nation.

I think the 144,000 is an endtime Christian remnant, not consisting of separate tribes, which were obsolete, but rather, a Christian portion of Israel who are the heirs of the original tribes. They are, I think, the first fruits of Israel's complete national salvation, who appear in some form right before Christ's return. In fact, a Messianic Jewish movement already exists today.

Lastly, like Daniel, God did not even want the church to understand end time things until the end times. God after all knows what He is doing. Now, I am only speaking about in full, God never intended for anyone in the first century to grasp all this in full, but he gave the other passages to give them hints, like the Four Horses of Zechariah, the Gog a Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39 foretells the earth destruction by fire (even though the original Gog war has not come to pass yet). Rev. 17 is taken from Dan. 5, so God gave them shadows.

Some of this is definitely true. As Peter said, the Prophets of the Bible had inquired of God about their own prophecies and were told those prophecies were not entirely for them. And Daniel indicated that some things would come to be known better later.

Also, Jesus said we shouldn't be overly concerned about times and seasons. But we should recognize when we are living through the things these prophecies represented. We should, for example, recognize a false Christ when we see one, whether he is the Antichrist or not. It is not important to know who the actual Antichrist is until he is the one we're immediately confronted with.

7 in God speak equals divine completion, 10 equals completion, 6 equals man, 8 equals new beginnings and 12 equals fulness. The people of old did indeed understand how God used numbers in the old test. since the old Hebrew had like 3900 words and no vowels to speak of. The bible uses these numbers over and over in the old test. The book of Rev. is encoded with the old test.

I'm not sure the lack of vowels had anything to do with numbers. But what do I know? It's not my forte.

What I do recognize, however, is that certain numbers become a reference point for future uses of the same number. For example, when God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, the number "7" became a reference point for future uses of the word "7." When we see something portrayed as a set of "7" it may refer back to the idea of completion, as you suggest.

The same with the number "12." Since God established 12 tribes for Israel, any later reference to something in a set of "12" could refer back to Israel. The number "12" itself does not actually mean "nation" or "Israel." Unless the number "12" has an intended reference point, it means nothing more than the number "12."

If I suggest that there are 5 pillars in a temple that represent the works of my hand, they may be a sly way of expressing the number of digits on my hand, which are "5." , Or, if I say there are 4 pillars in a temple to indicate its great outreach to the world, use of the number "4" may be to the 4 directions on a compass. But if there is no reference point for the 5 or 4 pillars, then they may mean only that they needed that number of pillars to secure the structure.

I've benefited from your input--thank you!

 

[Fisherking]

Brother, I was not just making this about John. I was saying the same thing you just did, that God did not want John to appear to be treasonous. But I do think it would've been suicidal for John to disobey God and identify Rome, thus "testing God."

However, you make the more important point, that a good Christian witness would not deliberately stir someone up and cause misunderstanding. Under the Law, Israel was not to put stumbling blocks up behind someone.

Again, Jesus told the Disciples why he spoke unto them in parables, so them hearing would see, hear and understand but the world would hear the exact same thing and not understand. So, our job is to be Christ like. By the way, God wrote the book of Revelation, not John, he merely dictated. Rev. 1:1 tells us God gave to Jesus the book of Rev. who was to give it to John his servant via signs, visions and spoken words from angels.

So, John did what he was told to and no one killed John imho, because God almighty would not allow it, thus they chucked him onto a Greek island Patmos it seems. John wrote what info God gave unto him, God encoded the book of Revelation with the old test. in the book of Rev. out of the 404 verses 284 have old test. verbiage. Its a giant code book, and only those who know the word of God can decode it. Just like only those who knew the word and Jesus could decode his parables.

God didn't call the 4th Beast "Rome" by name when the dream was given to Daniel because Rome had not yet come into view from Daniel's perspective. God of course knew it would eventually be called "Rome." But that was not important. I think God likely did not want these empires to be identified by name, except that he did identify the 1st empire, since Nebuchadnezzar was given the initial dream about this.

Daniel has nothing to do with the book of Rev. name tags in my opinion. I think God used Babylon, the Woman, and the 144,000 to obscure info from the enemy. So suffice it to say we may have a wee bit different understanding of why God used codes, metaphors and symbolism in the book of Revelation but its all good.

I think the word "Babylon" is used as a cryptic reference to Rome in the book of Revelation because it was the 1st of the 4 empires Daniel listed, and would lead knowledgeable readers to understand the train of empires leading to "the city that rules over the world."

Read Rev. 16:19 God calls those Jesus defeats at Armageddon, Babylon the Great and says they were placed in the wine-press of God's wrath. So, we know who God sees as Babylon the Great. So, who were they? Well, the 6th Vial tells us, it says the Kings of the "Whole World" gather to fight against All Mighty God. So, God sees Babylon as the whole world, Babel means confusion right? And what better name tag could we ever get than Babylon the Great? Mankind are so deceived and confused that they try to defeat their own loving Creator !! I would say that is indeed confusion at its finest. This World (Babylon) is Satan's dark kingdom on this earth, notice, when Babylon falls Satan gets locked in the pit for 1000 years.

In identifying this city as such, Roman readers might think he was speaking of Rome except for the fact he had identified it as "Mystery Babylon." Less knowledgeable readers in Rome would not understand the significance and think John was speaking of the city of Babylon, which was no longer of any consequence.

Yes, its not Rome, and I once wrote a blog describing it as such(LOL), only to be rebuked by the holy spirit. Its not NYC, Jerusalem, the USA or any place on earth, Babylon is a moniker for the whole world. The word Mystery Babylon, imho, is a bad conjunction of two words, there is a comma there for a reason. In Rev. 17:7 the angel says come, I will show you the Mystery of the woman (Harlot) and the [Gov.] Beast she rides. So, it has not been a Mystery for nigh 2000 years, the angel showed us what it all means but it seems most missed it. The word Mystery is a header of sorts, or used as a question mark as in Mystery? Here is the answer below:

MYSTERY?

1.) Babylon the Great ( Babylon was world renowned for her FALSE RELIGION )

2.) Mother of Harlots ( FALSE RELIGION was the original Harlotry of this world )

3.) Abominations of the earth ( God is a Jealous God, He hates all forms of FALSE RELIGION )

You see, it was never Mystery Babylon, it was MYSTERY, then we get three name tags that describe unto us who the Harlot is. She is all false religion of all time, hence we see she has the blood of the Saints (Jewish prophets etc. all before the cross) and the blood of the Martyrs of Jesus (After the cross). A harlot sat in the town square and she wore a name tag so her clientele could understand who she was after they paid her handlers. We get three descriptors here telling us who the Harlot is. She was assoc. with Babylon, she was the original harlotry of them all, even before false governance, and God hates her. So, why do the 10 kings, who are in league with the beast kill her off? Because she is many, she is Islam, Jupiter & Zeus worship, the Egyptian sun gods, she is Hinduism, Buddhism et al, but in the Anti-Christs kingdom there is only room for one god, he wants to be worshiped as the one and only god !! So, it all meshes.

Interesting point! I hadn't thought of that. I may very well adopt some of that perspective. I appreciate it (if it's true).

Mentioning obsolete tribes would disguise any reference to the nation Israel, particularly since 144,000 would've been something less than an actual nation. But Christians would've understood that the 12 tribes had merged into the nation, thus fulfilling God's promise to all 12 tribes that they would have an inheritance in the nation.

I think the 144,000 is an endtime Christian remnant, not consisting of separate tribes, which were obsolete, but rather, a Christian portion of Israel who are the heirs of the original tribes. They are, I think, the first fruits of Israel's complete national salvation, who appear in some form right before Christ's return. In fact, a Messianic Jewish movement already exists today.

There is indeed an end time Christian Remnant, but that can be found in Rev. 12:17, the Remnant Church is seen there. Most overlook that that Remnant can not be Jewish in that verse. The 1/3 who repent Satan can not get at so he turns to go after the Remnant of her seed (see Gal. 3:16 Jesus is THAT SEED) so, the Church who gets saved after the pre tribulation rapture is the Remnant church on earth, not in heaven marrying the lamb like the rest of us. We know this because 2/3 can not be a Remnant, the 1/3 flee, and the 2/3 also do not have the testimony of Jesus which is a requirement of this remnant according to Rev. 12:17.

We have a first fruits of the Wheat (Israel) but also a first-fruits of the Barley (Church). Barley unlike wheat, does not need to be crushed in order to be sifted. Remember, the wheat was to grow until the very end with the tares.

Some of this is definitely true. As Peter said, the Prophets of the Bible had inquired of God about their own prophecies and were told those prophecies were not entirely for them. And Daniel indicated that some things would come to be known better later.

Also, Jesus said we shouldn't be overly concerned about times and seasons. But we should recognize when we are living through the things these prophecies represented. We should, for example, recognize a false Christ when we see one, whether he is the Antichrist or not. It is not important to know who the actual Antichrist is until he is the one we're immediately confronted with.

Exactly, we are only given that which we need, we live in the very end times so we are given much, we just need to learn how to decipher these instructions better. Looking back in time it is much easier for us to understand things. 500 years ago people had no clue if Israel being reborn was metaphoric or real life events. We now know (LOL) so everything is much easier for us, plus we have computers and info at the tip of our fingers. As I was doing an Exegesis on Daniel chapters 11 and 12, where I name every player in every verse, I saw in Dan. 11:22 a person who would later become a huge key to my end time understandings, well not him but his brother.

22 And with the arms of a flood(Antiochus' army) shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant(Onias III was the Jewish High Priest, a pious man, known here as the prince of the covenant).

What I did not get until a year or so later while researching Onias III further was that his brother Jason, real name Yeshua, bribed Antiochus to be named the High Priest of Israel, Onias III his brother was thereby killed. This man Jason who took on the Greek culture thus the name Jason, welcomed Antiochus into the temple to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus on the altar of God which defiled the temple, a precursor to the AoD. He also mandated that all Jews become Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. That is when it hit me, not only was Antiochus the archetype Little Horn/Beast to come, but at his side was the archetype False Prophet to come in Jason, so from that point on I had a huge clue others not born in the end time like me/us could never quite get, the end time False Prophet would be a Jewish High Priest gone rogue like unto Jason. The computer made understanding all of that much easier, I could gather all of this info in a moments notice and compare them all whereas years ago this would have taken a monumental effort and tons of books. Jason covers 7 chapters in 2 Maccabeans. So, he is an important figure in history. But I had to dig all this out. So, we are a gifted generation, we just need to take advantage of these gifts.

What I do recognize, however, is that certain numbers become a reference point for future uses of the same number. For example, when God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, the number "7" became a reference point for future uses of the word "7." When we see something portrayed as a set of "7" it may refer back to the idea of completion, as you suggest.

Yes, and think this through now, when we see these numbers multiplied against each other God is trying to place an emphasis on something. God saved Himself 7000 men. God in Rev. 7 and 14 speaks about 144,000 and lastly in Zech. 13:8-9 God says 1/3 of the Jews will be saved, so which is it? Well, in God speak all three can be true and thus God never really gives away any of this info unto Satan his enemy. The 1/3 ratio can not be known until the very end times. The 7000 can be seen as 7 (divine completion) x 10 (completion) x 10 x 10 = 7000. And the 144,000 therefore can be seen as 12 (fulness) x 12 x 10 (completeness) x 10 x 10 = 144,000.

Personally, I do not see the Anti-Christs name matching up to 666, where it says the number of (A) man it really just says the number of man. I think 666 is God emphasizing the last beast is not a kingdom like all of the other beasts were but the last beast is one man hence (666). Now this is more of a hunch, the 7000 and 144,000 are just factoids to me. Anytime God uses perfect numbers like 7000 and 144,000 it is a message unto us, imho.

I've benefited from your input--thank you!

Same here, I love sharpening swords with brothers, it opens up new ideas and thoughts.

 

[RandyPNW]

By the way, God wrote the book of Revelation, not John, he merely dictated.

Yes, I know. It has to be acknowledged that the one dictating is just the messenger. In the Revelation, we have Jesus giving the Revelation, with angels and John delivering the message.

Daniel has nothing to do with the book of Rev. name tags in my opinion. I think God used Babylon, the Woman, and the 144,000 to obscure info from the enemy. So suffice it to say we may have a wee bit different understanding of why God used codes, metaphors and symbolism in the book of Revelation but its all good.

Yes, we will have differences of opinion. Personally, I held to a great number of different views on these things because it takes time to get all of the necessary information to make an educated guess. Or, we simply have to wait for God to give us insight. Sometimes our level of maturity dictates how much spiritual experience we have, and this controls our understanding on occasion.

So, God sees Babylon as the whole world, Babel means confusion right? And what better name tag could we ever get?

I understand why you might see "Babylon" as simply a name describing the entire world of sin. But I do think John was identifying Rome as the culprit, as the "Great harlot." It's just my personal opinion.

Rome did rule the world, so to speak, in his time. His readers would likely understand he was referring to Rome when he described it as the city that rules over the world. (Rev 17.18)

Yes, its not Rome, as I once wrote a blog describing it as such(LOL), only to be rebuked by the holy spirit.

Obviously, I don't think the Holy Spirit was rebuking you in this matter. I do think that Mystery Babylon is Rome. I think the Beast does originate with Dan 7, the 4th Kingdom. And I do think that the 4th Kingdom was Rome, or the Roman Empire.

This may sound strange since most of us were taught that Rome fell in 476 AD. But on that date the Eastern half of the Empire assumed reins over the Empire, and perpetuated its imperial tradition until later, the Holy Roman Empire came to represent the continuation of Roman tradition in the West.

Rome didn't fall completely. That's why it's known as the "Eternal City."

MYSTERY?

You see, it was never Mystery Babylon...

I think the representation of Babylon as a "mystery" indicates to John's readers that this "Babylon" was purely a tag for "Rome." It was a mystery to be deciphered, since identifying Rome as a "great harlot" would not present the Christian witness to ungodly people properly. Recognizing Rome as sinful is a matter of spiritual discernment, and not a matter of treason or sedition.

There is indeed an end time Christian Remnant, but that can be found in Rev. 12:17, the Remnant Church is seen there. Most overlook that that Remnant can not be Jewish there. The 1/3 who repent Satan can not get at so he turns to go after the Remnant of her seed (see Gal. 3:16 Jesus is THAT SEED) so, the Church who gets saved after the pre tribulation rapture is the Remnant church on earth, not in heaven marrying the lamb like the rest of us. We know this because 2/3 can not be a Remnant, the 1/3 flee, and the 2/3 also do not have the testimony of Jesus which is a requirement of this remnant according to Rev. 12:17.

The 144,000 is apparently a deliberate obfuscation of who Israel is in the endtimes. It is a remnant, being a smaller number than a complete country. And it consists of tribes that are archaic and passe. As such, they are a round-about way of identifying a remnant of the Jewish People who have originated by all 12 tribes by way of God's Promise. This is why the "Woman" is protected in her place in the wilderness, out of Satan's reach.

22 And with the arms of a flood(Antiochus' army) shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant(Onias III was the Jewish High Priest, a pious man, known here as the prince of the covenant).

The history, as viewed in Dan 11, is pretty straightforward, as the conflict between northern and southern kings around Israel representing Syrian and Egyptian kings leading up to Antiochus 4. Antiochus does appear to be some kind of forerunner or type of the Antichrist.

And the capitulation of the Hellenistic Jews to his brutal attack on their religion may indeed represent the corruption of Judaism today. But I don't necessarily see Antiochus and the Jewish High Priest as types of Antichrist and the False Prophet. At best, there are common principles. Some Jews will follow Antichrist, and many will go the way of the Maccabees.

And the 144,000 can be seen as 12 (fulness) x 12 x 10 (completeness) x 10 x 10 = 144,000.

We know the number is likely symbolic because the 12 tribes no longer existed in the time this Revelation was given. The point is that the 12 tribes were essentially equal in terms of God's wish to preserve them. Whether there will be a literal 144,000 Jews or not I don't know. But I believe they are Christian Jews who preserve Israel's legacy in a time of Jewish backsliding. They "hold the fort," so to speak, until Israel obtains full political deliverance at the 2nd Coming.

Personally, I do not see the Anti-Christs name matching up to 666, where it says the number of (A) man it really just says the number of man.

The best answer to this is, I think, a matter of looking back to how John's readers would've understood this in John's time. In his time it was typical of the Jews, and therefore the Christians also, to identify names by associating them with a numerical value.

In John's time it was known that the original Roman king in history had a name with a numerical value of 666. Therefore, John may have been cryptically identifying Antichrist as a future Roman Emperor, when that Empire is restored in the last days.

The Beast suffers a "fatal wound," meaning that the original Empire suffers a serious setback, which indeed happened in 476 AD and 1453 AD. That may be why the Beast "was, is not, and is to come." The Roman Empire had already come into existence in John's time, but the Antichrist himself was "not yet."

As I understand it, Nero's name added up to "666," as well. And yet present Rome was not yet the Antichristian Empire. Only Antichrist's coming would make it the predicted Antichristian Empire.

And so, the Antichristian Empire was "not" in the time of John. And though the Roman Empire did not yet have Antichristian status, and though it would suffer a mortal wound in 476 AD, it would ultimately be reconstituted as a pagan empire under Antichrist.

Same here, I love sharpening swords with brothers, it opens up knew ideas and thoughts.

Yes, we do benefit greatly when we learn submission to Christ and to one another. Thanks!

 

[claninja]

Okay, thanks for your input.

No problem. The apocalypse of John is a first century text, and thus it’s visions and mystic language should probably be understood within the framework of a first century audience.

 

[RandyPNW]

No problem. The apocalypse of John is a first century text, and thus it’s visions and mystic language should probably be understood within the framework of a first century audience.

I agree that the *language* should be understood in the context of those who initially read it in the 1st century. But the import must certainly anticipate future readers who will live through a time that is being predicted. Preterists tend to find everything written in the Revelation as fulfilled in the early centuries of the Church. Futurists tend to view a good portion of it as fulfilled in the last years of the present age.

I'm a futurist, and see an emphasis on a 4th Kingdom, which I believe to be Daniel predicting the Roman Empire. This Empire would lead to the end of the age and the return of Christ. So I believe that the Roman Empire, in some way, continues to exist in some form in the present age. Daniel said this Empire would be broken up into many states and then reconstituted into a new pagan empire under Antichrist.

1 Pet 1.10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

 

[3 Resurrections]

`You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagle`s wings and brought you to Myself.` (Ex. 19: 4)

More likely the Lord is protecting His people Israel.

Change just one word in this and it will be correct. "More likely the Lord WAS protecting His people Israel." The fulfillment of this was the persecution of the believers of the early church in Jerusalem that started on the very day of Stephen's martyrdom in Acts 8:1. The believers "were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria...Therefore, they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word."

In the same way that the ancient Israelites were born on the eagle's wings of God's protection carrying them to Himself at Mount Sinai, so the new believers freed from the bondage of the Old Covenant into the "law of liberty wherewith Christ had made them free" were carried into the Judean wilderness by the eagle's wings of God's power in order to spread the gospel outside of Jerusalem. They had been commanded to start their evangelism efforts in Jerusalem, then to go outward to the uttermost parts of the earth" from there. The eagle's wings of God protecting and nourishing the life of the early church as it was scattered into the Judean countryside lasted for that "time, times, and half a time" until the "flood" of persecution launched by Saul against the church was swallowed up in his dramatic conversion to Christ on the road to Damascus.

Satan, the Dragon, was enraged by this conversion of Saul on the Damascus road which had "swallowed up the flood" of the Dragon's persecution of the early church. Since Satan lost Saul / Paul to the faith of Christ, he opted to attack the faithful remnant of the woman's seed instead in those first century days.

 

[Oseas]

Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

What I was referring to was, Why *2 wings?* There is a specific emphasis on the number 2--not just that birds have 2 wings, but that 2 wings play a role in this deliverance of the Woman in the Wilderness. Angels sometimes are portrayed as having more than 2 wings. But this deliverance only has 2 wings. Why? Perhaps you don't think it is significant?

As you said, "But this deliverance only has 2 wings. Why? Perhaps you don't think it is significant?"

Yes, it is very significant, of course. But how to understand this mystery? JESUS said to the Devil: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD. But where is written every Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD? In the Old Testament and New Testament. The Word is GOD-John 1:1-, self-executable, understand?

The two wings of a great eagle that will be given to the woman, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach or from the face of the serpent, yeah, the TWO WINGS are the Old and New Testaments, the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, great mystery.

Now we know in part, and we prophesy in part, and that which is in part shall be done away-1Corinthians 13:9. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath-Matthew 25:29.

Hebrews 1:1-3:-
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days (last two Days or around 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD's PERSON (Genesis 1:26-27), and upholding ALL things by the Word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Be careful and get ready

 

[RandyPNW]

As you said, "But this deliverance only has 2 wings. Why? Perhaps you don't think it is significant?"

Yes, it is very significant, of course. But how to understand this mystery? JESUS said to the Devil: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD. But where is written every Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD? In the Old Testament and New Testament. The Word is GOD-John 1:1-, self-executable, understand?

Why do you think I need to understand? Are you trying to say that because the Word of God is "self-executable" that the 2 wings of a bird infer that the Woman is requiring God's Word to execute her escape?

The two wings of a great eagle that will be given to the woman, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach or from the face of the serpent, yeah, the TWO WINGS are the Old and New Testaments, the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, great mystery.

Well, that's certainly a possible theory. I wouldn't say it's provable though. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Oseas]

Why do you think I need to understand? Are you trying to say that because the Word of God is "self-executable" that the 2 wings of a bird infer that the Woman is requiring God's Word to execute her escape?

Answering your question, it is because we are speaking of a great mystery about the Person of GOD, the Word.
John the Baptist, the angel of the Lord, preached saying that "No man hath seen GOD at any time (the Word is an invisible Person, the Word is GOD), the only begotten Son(the Word made flesh), which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him-Mat.1:18KJV.

Well, that's certainly a possible theory. I wouldn't say it's provable though. Thanks for your thoughts.

Oh no, it is not my thoughts, it's the Word, the Word is GOD, the Word is a Person, understand?
The Old Testament and The New Testament, or two Covenants, are GOD personified, and through the Word that proceedes out of His MOUTH within of the OT and NT, He by allegory is also like Two Wings, as says the Word of GOD:

Ps. 36:7 - How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O GOD! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy WINGS.

Ps. 57:1 - Be merciful unto me, O GOD, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy WINGS will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.

Ps. 61:4 - I will abide in thy tabernacle for ever: I will trust in the covert of thy WINGS. Selah.

Ps.91:4 - He shall cover thee with His feathers, and under His WINGS shalt thou trust: His truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

The seraphim uses these two wings when needs to cover the face;
And when he needs to cover the feet also uses these two wings;
And when the seraphim needs to fly he uses the same two wings.

The Word is GOD, self-executable. The Word was made flesh around 4000 years after Adam or around 2000 years ago.
And the Word made flesh said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. John 5:17

That said, the above posted is not a theory, it is the Word of GOD. If you have not these TWO WINGS certainly will be swallowed up by the flood which the dragon will cast out of his mouth. Be careful and get ready

It's it.

 

[RandyPNW]

Answering your question, it is because we are speaking of a great mystery about the Person of GOD, the Word.
John the Baptist, the angel of the Lord, preached saying that "No man hath seen GOD at any time (the Word is an invisible Person, the Word is GOD), the only begotten Son(the Word made flesh), which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him-Mat.1:18KJV.

You're calling John the Baptist the "angel of the Lord?" Are you trying to say he's a *messenger,* or are you actually calling John an "angel?" You should be clear when you use words that are so controversial!

You sound like you're trying to be so esoteric, so "spiritual?" Why are you trying to explain that the Word is God? We all know this from John 1! We were talking about what the "2 Wings" represent, and here you think it important to explain that the Word of God is God Himself?

Oh no, it is not my thoughts, it's the Word, the Word is GOD, the Word is a Person, understand?

There you go again, asking if I "understand!" ...As if you have some special revelation that others don't have? All Christians have the same revelation, brother. If you think you're special, you don't know God very well yet.

But to say your thoughts are one with God's thoughts is a little presumptuous, don't you think? To think you're perfectly aligned with divine revelation is virtually to make yourself to have God's mind. And the mind that we have, having been renewed, is still not God's mind. At best we partake of the Divine Nature. We are not that Nature itself!

Fact is, we are all very flawed. And the longer you walk with Christ the more you will recognize this.

The Old Testament and The New Testament, or two Covenants, are GOD personified, and through the Word that proceedes out of His MOUTH within of the OT and NT, He by allegory is also like Two Wings, as says the Word of GOD:

Just a minute! The words of 66 books are "God personified?" What does that mean? That sounds like you "worship" the Bible, which is a series of book written by sin-infected men! Are you a Kabbalist?

The inspiration was pure from God, but the people through whom this was given were imperfect, even if they were faithful in their testimony. Revelation does proceed from the Scriptures, but the books themselves are not that revelation--the only revelation of God about them is that they are books that contain His revelation.

That said, the above posted is not a theory, it is the Word of GOD. If you have not these TWO WINGS certainly will be swallowed up by the flood which the dragon will cast out of his mouth. Be careful and get ready

So your words are an expression of God Himself, just as the Scriptures are? You have a lot to learn! The only thing that God's revelation says about you and your words is that you are a faulty expression of God in human form, who speaks flawed words and understands things imperfectly. You may speak some of God's verbal Word, but it is *not* that Word itself!

 

[Oseas]

You're calling John the Baptist the "angel of the Lord?" Are you trying to say he's a *messenger,* or are you actually calling John an "angel?"

To understand what I said you would need, first of all, to be a reader of the Holy Scriptures-the Bible-and believing in JESUS, and be born again, to be born of the water and of the Spirit, as JESUS said.

I'm not calling John the Baptist the angel of the Lord, in fact I'm affirming / asserting he is the angel of the Lord in the same way that JESUS claimed John to be an angel-Matthew 11:9-10-, probably you don't believe in JESUS as I believe in Him, actually I'm one in Him as He is One in the Father.

JESUS said peremptorily in His preaching about John the Baptist: "What went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and MORE THAN A PROPHET. For this is he of whom it is written(in the Word of GOD): Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee-Matthew 11:9-10. And John testified: JESUS is He of whom I said, After me comes a MAN which is preferred before me: for He was before me, for he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And I saw, and testify that JESUS is the Son of GOD-John 1:30-34.

You should be clear when you use words that are so controversial!

I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand? GOD is Spirit, who really is controverses is your spirit. Well, the light shines in darkness and the darkness comprehends it not.

You sound like you're trying to be so esoteric, so "spiritual?" Why are you trying to explain that the Word is God? We all know this from John 1! We were talking about what the "2 Wings" represent, and here you think it important to explain that the Word of God is God Himself?

Yes, the Word is GOD Himself, and He was made flesh around 2000 years ago, understand? By your testimony above it seems you know only and only the letter of the Bible, but know not the Spirit; GOD is Spirit, understand? Well, the letter kills, who preaches only the letter of the Bible-Genesis 3:1- is only a terrible killer of souls, for only GOD's Spirit gives life through the Word of His mouth. The Word is GOD Himself-John 1:1.

There you go again, asking if I "understand!" ...As if you have some special revelation that others don't have? All Christians have the same revelation, brother. If you think you're special, you don't know God very well yet.
But to say your thoughts are one with God's thoughts is a little presumptuous, don't you think? To think you're perfectly aligned with divine revelation is virtually to make yourself to have God's mind. And the mind that we have, having been renewed, is still not God's mind. At best we partake of the Divine Nature. We are not that Nature itself! Fact is, we are all very flawed. And the longer you walk with Christ the more you will recognize this.

What eyes has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD has prepared for them that love Him, understand? Speaking the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto the glory of His people.
Well, we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but that which is in part shall be done away, and unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that has not shall be taken away even that which he has, so the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness, and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The Word is GOD, self-executable, and fuflfills LITERALLY.

Just a minute! The words of 66 books are "God personified?" What does that mean? That sounds like you "worship" the Bible, which is a series of book written by sin-infected men! Are you a Kabbalist?
The inspiration was pure from God, but the people through whom this was given were imperfect, even if they were faithful in their testimony. Revelation does proceed from the Scriptures, but the books themselves are not that revelation--the only revelation of God about them is that they are books that contain His revelation.

Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. JESUS said: Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, false witness, blasphemies, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts:Matthew 15:19
"But every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment (this Day arrived, the LORD's Day). For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned-Mat.12:36-37. The Word is GOD, self-executable, you see?

Peter apostle left very clear, saying: We have also a more sure Word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but HOLY MEN OF GOD spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (not by a Ghost as is written in English language, it's a mockery, the Holy Spirit also is a Person, and he does not accept be called by that nickname).
But you, in your devilish testimony, called the HOLY MEN OF GOD as "sin-infected men", in fact a false testimony. Isaiah testified saying: "I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and His train filled the Temple. And above it stood the seraphims: Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my MOUTH, and said, Lo, this has touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Be careful or then get ready

So your words are an expression of God Himself, just as the Scriptures are? You have a lot to learn! The only thing that God's revelation says about you and your words is that you are a faulty expression of God in human form, who speaks flawed words and understands things imperfectly. You may speak some of God's verbal Word, but it is *not* that Word itself!

Your judgments are good for nothing, what matters and prevails are the righteous Judgments of GOD, you see? If any man defile the temple of GOD, him shall GOD destroy, you see? The Word is GOD, self-executable.

 

[RandyPNW]

To understand what I said you would need, first of all, to be a reader of the Holy Scriptures-the Bible-and believing in JESUS, and be born again, to be born of the water and of the Spirit, as JESUS said.

That's a bit naive. Again, you assume that as a Christian you are correct when that is certainly not assured with Salvation. Saved people make errors all the time, are flawed, and need God's help in dealing with their own inadequacies. Getting Saved is but the 1st step in a life of divine correction. The mature understand this.

I'm not calling John the Baptist the angel of the Lord, in fact I'm affirming / asserting he is the angel of the Lord in the same way that JESUS claimed John to be an angel-Matthew 11:9-10-, probably you don't believe in JESUS as I believe in Him, actually I'm one in Him as He is One in the Father.

You sound like you think you're Jesus? Why don't you just come out and say you meant that John the Baptist was a *messenger?* I think my question was crystal clear, and you seem to wish to obscure it in order to make yourself esoteric, spiritual, and elitist?

I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand?

What's with the constant "understand" business? Why do you continue to assume I don't understand you? Do you think you're "deeper" than me?

GOD is Spirit, who really is controverses is your spirit. Well, the light shines in darkness and the darkness comprehends it not.

So now you're calling me "conflicted" and "dark?" You're proving to be a real problem.

Yes, the Word is GOD Himself, and He was made flesh around 2000 years ago, understand?

"Understand?" I said in my 1st post to you that I know God and the Word are one. What is your problem?

By your testimony above it seems you know only and only the letter of the Bible, but know not the Spirit; GOD is Spirit, understand? Well, the letter kills, who preaches only the letter of the Bible-Genesis 3:1- is only a terrible killer of souls, for only GOD's Spirit gives life through the Word of His mouth. The Word is GOD Himself-John 1:1.

I know only the letter? I'm a Christian, brother. I receive revelation just like you do. However, you seem to be getting puffed up on your so-called "revelations?" Don't treat fellow Christians as inferiors. That makes you less spiritual--not more spiritual. Christianity is characterized by loving brothers--not by exalting yourself above them.

Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective... The Word is GOD, self-executable, you see?

Do I see what--your arrogance in calling me "darkness?" Yes! Calling names is very much a "stumbling block."

It's not a stumbling block for me to reject something a fellow Christian says that isn't quite right. And there isn't something quite right with you! I asked you if you thought the 2 wings of a great eagle is God's Word because it is the vehicle through which God moves, which you identified as "God's Word?" And you start insulting me. What's your problem?

But you, in your devilish testimony...

Now I'm a "devil?" You've lost it, brother! I was just asking for clarification about what you meant. The Bible says have an answer for everyone that asks--not calling him a "devil," or "darkness!" I guess you think you're the reincarnation of Jesus such that you can judge others if they don't agree with you.

, called the HOLY MEN OF GOD as "sin-infected men", in fact a false testimony.

You don't think we have a "Sin Nature?" That is not a "false testimony"--we are born in Sin. Christians have always believed this. If you think you're not "sin-infected" then you don't need Christ.

Your judgments are good for nothing...

Ouch. Unless you straighten out your hateful talk I'm not going to understand what kind of "Christian" you are!

 

[Oseas]

That's a bit naive. Again, you assume that as a Christian you are correct when that is certainly not assured with Salvation. Saved people make errors all the time, are flawed, and need God's help in dealing with their own inadequacies. Getting Saved is but the 1st step in a life of divine correction. The mature understand this.

The point was/is not about salvation, but about your devilish assertion dennying what JESUS peremptorily said about John the Baptist, i.e. John was/is a messenger sent by GOD to the land of Israel, by the way, the land of the father of the lie-John 8:44-45.
Your opinion is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word f GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing.
Through your devilish testimony posted here, all can see the confirmation of what GOD said to the Serpent, the Devil, cursing him, saying: "dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life", you were made only of the dust of the earth, and spiritually remains in the womb of the Serpent.

You sound like you think you're Jesus? Why don't you just come out and say you meant that John the Baptist was a *messenger?* I think my question was crystal clear, and you seem to wish to obscure it in order to make yourself esoteric, spiritual, and elitist?

That is not the case, the question is that you are tormented face of GOD's Truth. GOD is the Truth. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of GOD, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Your opinion is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. GOD is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

What's with the constant "understand" business? Why do you continue to assume I don't understand you? Do you think you're "deeper" than me?

I don't think what you think that I think. According your testimony, you are of the earth without form, and void, darkness is upon the face of the deep.

So now you're calling me "conflicted" and "dark?" You're proving to be a real problem.
"Understand?" I said in my 1st post to you that I know God and the Word are one. What is your problem?

There is not any problem, your disguised and cynic spirit is creating problem where it doesn't exist.

I know only the letter? I'm a Christian, brother. I receive revelation just like you do. However, you seem to be getting puffed up on your so-called "revelations?" Don't treat fellow Christians as inferiors. That makes you less spiritual--not more spiritual. Christianity is characterized by loving brothers--not by exalting yourself above them.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, not what you say according the desguised spirit that manifested in Genesis 3:1.

Do I see what--your arrogance in calling me "darkness?" Yes! Calling names is very much a "stumbling block."
It's not a stumbling block for me to reject something a fellow Christian says that isn't quite right. And there isn't something quite right with you! I asked you if you thought the 2 wings of a great eagle is God's Word because it is the vehicle through which God moves, which you identified as "God's Word?" And you start insulting me. What's your problem?

What you are saying from your own "sin-infected" and evil heart, according to the spirit of the man of sin, son of perdition, it is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executable, don't you understand? What is the chaff to the wheat? says the Lord. Is not my Word like as a fire? says the Lord; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

Now I'm a "devil?"

You say that.

You've lost it, brother! I was just asking for clarification about what you meant. The Bible says have an answer for everyone that asks--not calling him a "devil," or "darkness!"

What does the Word of GOD say? 2 Corinthians 11:12-15:
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers-ministers of Satan- also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works.

I guess you think you're the reincarnation of Jesus such that you can judge others if they don't agree with you.

I do not think what you think that I think. What matters and prevails is what my Lord JESUS said: Matthew 10:24-28
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You don't think we have a "Sin Nature?" That is not a "false testimony"--we are born in Sin. Christians have always believed this. If you think you're not "sin-infected" then you don't need Christ.

You are saying that because you're the accuser the brothers, but now will be cast down into the bottomless pit by the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, you see? Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of GOD, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our GOD day and night. And they shall overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony; and they shall love not their lives unto the death.

Ouch. Unless you straighten out your hateful talk I'm not going to understand what kind of "Christian" you are!

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, your opinions are good for nothing. But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto thyself wrath against this Day of WRATH and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD; Who will render to every man according to his deeds. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for this Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. So, as many as have sinned without Law(the Gentile peoples/nations), they shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be JUDGED by the Law.

 

[Timtofly]

JESUS said peremptorily in His preaching about John the Baptist: "What went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and MORE THAN A PROPHET. For this is he of whom it is written(in the Word of GOD): Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee-Matthew 11:9-10. And John testified: JESUS is He of whom I said, After me comes a MAN which is preferred before me: for He was before me, for he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And I saw, and testify that JESUS is the Son of GOD-John 1:30-34.

The term messenger does not automatically mean angel. John was a human conceived in the womb of Elizabeth. An angel can be a messenger. So can humans be sent with a message from God. That would be every author of a book in the Bible. The Bible was not written by angels. According to you Moses, Paul, Peter, James and John were all angels.

 

[RandyPNW]

The point was/is not about salvation, but about your devilish assertion dennying what JESUS peremptorily said about John the Baptist, i.e. John was/is a messenger sent by GOD to the land of Israel, by the way, the land of the father of the lie-John 8:44-45.

I have no clue what you're talking about? I made no devilish assertion. I did not deny anything Jesus said about John the Baptist. I full well know that Jesus saw John the Baptist as his forerunner and herald--a messenger.

When you said John was an "angel," I wanted clarification. I wanted to know if you were saying John was a literal "angel" or simply a "messenger," which is what "angel" can also mean.

But you twist things around, and I've lost interest.... I'm not interested in the fighting, in the name-calling, and the confusion.

 

[Oseas]

The term messenger does not automatically mean angel.

In fact, there is not any difference execept in the translation. The term angel is original. "Messenger" is a mere variation of the term. By the way, according to the Word of GOD, there is a hierarchy among celestial beings: There are angels, archangels, seraphim, and Cherubs.

John was a human conceived in the womb of Elizabeth.

Sorry, your conception about John is very very poor. You should remember that Elizabeth was barren and elderly; Zechariah also was old, they both were now well stricken in years.
You should also remember that John's name came from heaven-Luke 1:19 reveals: The angel said unto Zechariah: I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of GOD, and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Therefore, John was born by the Power of the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD and is from everlasting to everlasting, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent.

Speaking of the person of John the Baptist, JESUS revealed unto His disciples that John was/is an angel according Scriptures, what Scriptures? Malachi 3:v.1-Tanakh-The Hebrew Bible - https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16221
1Behold I send My angel, and he will clear a way before Me. And suddenly, the Lord Whom you seek will come to His Temple. And behold! The angel of the covenant, whom you desire, is coming, says the Lord of Hosts. (the term "messenger" was/is a mere variation of the translation).

Isaiah also prophesied the birth of John-Isaiah 40. John was sent by GOD before JESUS-the Word is GOD-therefore, the birth of John, the angel of the Lord, was prophetic.
You said above that "John was a human conceived in the womb of Elizabeth", right, JESUS also was a human conceived in the womb of a virgin, called Mary, this was possible to happen because the Word is GOD, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent.

An angel can be a messenger.

And vice-versa.
What is the nature of the angels? Angels are men. Genesis 19:1-3
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and Lot made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

So can humans be sent with a message from God.
That would be every author of a book in the Bible.

Not only "author of a book of the Bible was sent with a message from God". My Lord JESUS is God-1John 5:19-20 combined with Phil.2:6), and He sent His disciples, saying: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit(who is not a Ghost, as is written in English language, but a person. He does not accept to be called by that nickname, It's a mockery).

The Bible was not written by angels.

Actually they command to written their message, take a look, for example, which were the messages that the angel of the Lord(actually an archangel) commanded John to write adressing the messages to the ANGELS of the 7 Churches of Asia-Revelation chapters 2 and 3 combined with 22:8-9.

According to you Moses, Paul, Peter, James and John were all angels.

Your interpretation of what was posted is wrong. You say that from your own imagination and guessing, your conception is not true, but fake, of course.

But wait: They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world(the next world-the Kingdom of GOD, the 3rd heavenly place in Christ) and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are EQUAL UNTO THE ANGELS; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection-Luke 20:35-36.

To finish, I ask to you yourself: Don't you believe even you yourself will be EQUAL immortal angels IF you be accounted worthy to enter in the Kingdom of GOD that will be established in this current millennium, the seventh and last millennium? If not you will be lost for everlasting time, for ever and ever.

Revelation 22:8-9&16
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. (in fact was/is an archangel)
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy FELLOWSERVANT, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship GOD.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Fisherking]

In fact, there is not any difference execept in the translation. The term angel is original. "Messenger" is a mere variation of the term. By the way, according to the Word of GOD, there is a hierarchy among celestial beings: There are angels, archangels, seraphim, and Cherubs.

Yes, the 7 Angels of the Churches in Revelation was really just the 7 Preachers of the 7 Churches. People do not get that a messenger s not always an angel. Context matters.

 

[Timtofly]

What is the nature of the angels? Angels are men.

No they are not. They are stars. Their nature is being the heavenly host. They only appear as men, when sent to earth with a direct message from God.

Humans and stars were the only beings created that represent God as light and spiritual beings. There is not another race of humans as the heavenly hosts.

Nor are angels born as humans.

John was accused of being Elijah, and now an angel. Is Elijah an angel now?

Jesus is not an angel either. God is not a created being. God took on human flesh, a little lower than the angels. He did not become an angel who took on human form.

 

[Oseas]

Yes, the 7 Angels of the Churches in Revelation was really just the 7 Preachers of the 7 Churches. People do not get that a messenger s not always an angel. Context matters.

The WAR in this current heavenly place in Christ is against the great dragon and his messengers. And the great dragon will be cast out from this heavenly place, that is the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he will be cast out into the earth, and his messengers will also be cast out with him.

 

[Oseas]

No they are not. They are stars. Their nature is being the heavenly host. They only appear as men, when sent to earth with a direct message from God.

But are also wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. The angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, GOD reserved them in everlasting chains under darkness unto the Judgment of this great Day. The LORD's Day, the seventh and last Day, or seventh andlast millennium.

Be careful or then get ready.