2 wings of an eagle?

RandyPNW

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Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.
 

HTacianas

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Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

More likely it's Mary and Joseph's flight to Egypt.
 
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Marilyn C

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Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.
`You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagle`s wings and brought you to Myself.` (Ex. 19: 4)

More likely the Lord is protecting His people Israel.
 
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RandyPNW

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`You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagle`s wings and brought you to Myself.` (Ex. 19: 4)

More likely the Lord is protecting His people Israel.
I'm sure God is doing it through some kind of agency. But why "2 wings of a great eagle?"
 
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RandyPNW

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Revealing God as Israel`s protector.
What I was referring to was, Why *2 wings?* There is a specific emphasis on the number 2--not just that birds have 2 wings, but that 2 wings play a role in this deliverance of the Woman in the Wilderness. Angels sometimes are portrayed as having more than 2 wings. But this deliverance only has 2 wings. Why? Perhaps you don't think it is significant?
 
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Marilyn C

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What I was referring to was, Why *2 wings?* There is a specific emphasis on the number 2--not just that birds have 2 wings, but that 2 wings play a role in this deliverance of the Woman in the Wilderness. Angels sometimes are portrayed as having more than 2 wings. But this deliverance only has 2 wings. Why? Perhaps you don't think it is significant?
Yes, as the symbol is for God helping the Jews to escape to the wilderness, the 2 wings are needed for flight. (Rev. 12: 14)
 
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RandyPNW

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Yes, as the symbol is for God helping the Jews to escape to the wilderness, the 2 wings are needed for flight. (Rev. 12: 14)
That could certainly be it, that Israel is metaphorically given "wings" to fly to a place of escape in the desert. It just seemed odd to me that such detail was given, indicating not just an eagle but more, a "great eagle with 2 wings." That may or may not be significant. I was just asking for feedback. Thanks.
 
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fli

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Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Revelation 12:13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. NKJV

I believe you have half of it.

Items of note in the above. In verse 14 the woman was give 2 wings of a great eagle. Wings of birds are in pairs. With one wing a bird cannot fly, it just goes around in circles on the ground. God gave unsaved Israel two eagles to fly her to her place. All this happened after Jesus died on the cross by John 12:31 because that is when Satan was cast out of heaven. Therefore, this flight took place after God sent the woman to a place in the wilderness in Revelation 12: 6.


After Jesus died the Roman empire cast Israel out of her land into the wilderness. The Roman empire's army had an eagle perched on the standard in front of each Roman army legion. This is the first eagle God used to get Israel to her place.


This cannot be the same event as in verse Revelation 12: 6 because in this flight Israel goes to “her place.” Israel's place is the land God promised to give the descendants of Abraham. In 1948 God used the United States to get Israel back to her place and has been using the US up to this day to help her remain in her place. During the last half of the tribulation God will protect the elect of unsaved Israel, those who gave glory to the God of heaven in Revelation 11: 13. (Note they were still on earth after the witnesses were called to heaven.)


The 2 wings of eagles are Rome and the United States.


Not related to this topic: In my opinion this war in Israel will result in the US ceasing to protect Israel. True Israel should still support Israel during this time. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem which will happen only after Jesus returns.
 
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RandyPNW

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Revelation 12:13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. NKJV

I believe you have half of it.

Items of note in the above. In verse 14 the woman was give 2 wings of a great eagle. Wings of birds are in pairs. With one wing a bird cannot fly, it just goes around in circles on the ground. God gave unsaved Israel two eagles to fly her to her place. All this happened after Jesus died on the cross by John 12:31 because that is when Satan was cast out of heaven. Therefore, this flight took place after God sent the woman to a place in the wilderness in Revelation 12: 6.


After Jesus died the Roman empire cast Israel out of her land into the wilderness. The Roman empire's army had an eagle perched on the standard in front of each Roman army legion. This is the first eagle God used to get Israel to her place.


This cannot be the same event as in verse Revelation 12: 6 because in this flight Israel goes to “her place.” Israel's place is the land God promised to give the descendants of Abraham. In 1948 God used the United States to get Israel back to her place and has been using the US up to this day to help her remain in her place. During the last half of the tribulation God will protect the elect of unsaved Israel, those who gave glory to the God of heaven in Revelation 11: 13. (Note they were still on earth after the witnesses were called to heaven.)


The 2 wings of eagles are Rome and the United States.


Not related to this topic: In my opinion this war in Israel will result in the US ceasing to protect Israel. True Israel should still support Israel during this time. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem which will happen only after Jesus returns.
Thanks, you have some interesting thoughts on this. The narrative focuses like a laser on the final 3.5 years of the age (I reject the notion of two periods of 3.5 years each). And yet, the backdrop of this prophecy is inclusive of the entire NT age, beginning at the Cross, as you suggest.

So it's well worth thinking about your ideas. My thoughts on your suggestion that the US is moving away from support of Israel has been something I've been concerned about for a long time. Biblical prophecy does seem to suggest that "all nations" will gather against Jerusalem, and we're seeing even Israel's "friends" drop their support for her.

I find this sad and pathetic, that even the US--Israel's staunch ally, is wavering in our support of vulnerable Israel with its relatively small population of Jewish people. Obviously, the forces of Islam are much greater, and the political pressure being put on Democrats in the US is overwhelming to those who lack strong moral convictions, or spiritual strength.

This passage, however, suggests that leading up to the final 3.5 years the "Woman" enjoys the support of God who grants her "the two wings of a great eagle." The fact it is a "great" eagle seems to speak of something other than just God's provision, and we both seem to agree this could be the US.

And I do recognize that ancient Rome had the eagle god on their standards. So maybe they had something to do with putting Israel out into the wilderness? But in my opinion, the Woman going out into the wilderness, and her provision there, seem to be a single era, immediately leading up to and including the 3.5 year reign of Antichrist.

But thanks for your input. It helps me organize my own thinking on it. I have no particular agenda on coming up with a particular interpretation of this passage. We search *together!* :)
 
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Timtofly

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The 2 wings of eagles are Rome and the United States.
If you are going in this direction, it would be Germany, not the US. In the 2nd world war, certain Germans used the same eagle standard as Rome, and drove the Jews out of Germany.
 
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fli

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Thanks, you have some interesting thoughts on this. The narrative focuses like a laser on the final 3.5 years of the age (I reject the notion of two periods of 3.5 years each). And yet, the backdrop of this prophecy is inclusive of the entire NT age, beginning at the Cross, as you suggest.

So it's well worth thinking about your ideas. My thoughts on your suggestion that the US is moving away from support of Israel has been something I've been concerned about for a long time. Biblical prophecy does seem to suggest that "all nations" will gather against Jerusalem, and we're seeing even Israel's "friends" drop their support for her.

I find this sad and pathetic, that even the US--Israel's staunch ally, is wavering in our support of vulnerable Israel with its relatively small population of Jewish people. Obviously, the forces of Islam are much greater, and the political pressure being put on Democrats in the US is overwhelming to those who lack strong moral convictions, or spiritual strength.

This passage, however, suggests that leading up to the final 3.5 years the "Woman" enjoys the support of God who grants her "the two wings of a great eagle." The fact it is a "great" eagle seems to speak of something other than just God's provision, and we both seem to agree this could be the US.

And I do recognize that ancient Rome had the eagle god on their standards. So maybe they had something to do with putting Israel out into the wilderness? But in my opinion, the Woman going out into the wilderness, and her provision there, seem to be a single era, immediately leading up to and including the 3.5 year reign of Antichrist.

But thanks for your input. It helps me organize my own thinking on it. I have no particular agenda on coming up with a particular interpretation of this passage. We search *together!* :)
Mr Timtofly

Tried to quote you but I don't know all the in and outs. Yes, some Germans did have the eagle on their standard but it was not universal to all the German army as I understand it was to Rome. The German intent was to eliminate them not just send them away. I'll stick with the US and Rome. I believe both these to be in God's perfect will and not just ordained by God. In His perfect will God planned it to happen. Just ordaining it means He let it happen. At least that is how I look at it.

Thank you

Mr RandyPNW

Thank you.
 
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Fisherking

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Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.
No, not unless someone reads Herbert W. Armstrong's cult books. (Worldwide Church of God)

God is referred unto in many places in the bible as an Eagle of Eagles wings.

If you notice it also says the earth will protect them, well that is what happened in Egypt remember? A wall of fire, the Red sea parted. God will once again use the elements of this earth to protect Israel supernaturally.
 
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RandyPNW

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No, not unless someone reads Herbert W. Armstrong's cult books. (Worldwide Church of God)

God is referred unto in many places in the bible as an Eagle of Eagles wings.

If you notice it also says the earth will protect them, well that is what happened in Egypt remember? A wall of fire, the Red sea parted. God will once again use the elements of this earth to protect Israel supernaturally.
The passage says "A great eagle," as opposed to "THE great eagle." If it was God, wouldn't it say so? It appears to be something else. To say it has 2 wings is a virtual truism--of course an eagle has 2 wings! So something more is being said here--I just don't know what it is?

But thanks for mentioning the Red Sea. I never saw the connection before. The Land appears to be cooperating with God to deliver Israel. Much of this seems symbolic, however. The "Land" could represent the Palestinians, for example.

Rev 12. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

This is one verse I just cannot understand! :(
If you have any ideas, let me know?
 
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Fisherking

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The passage says "A great eagle," as opposed to "THE great eagle." If it was God, wouldn't it say so?
No, God is telling us His Church who know the scriptures but not telling the world who doesn't know the scriptures. The Woman and 144,000 both seemingly refer to Israel, the 7 spirits and 7 eyes simple means God sees all and is everywhere, the 7 headed 10 horned beast is saying this is God's complete judgments against Israel for their backsliding ways. The whole book is symbolism, codes & metaphors.

It appears to be something else. To say it has 2 wings is a virtual truism--of course an eagle has 2 wings! So something more is being said here--I just don't know what it is?
The eagle is God, who else do you think could protect Israel from these end time evil, terrorist thugs? Read it again, the earth protects Israel (woman) means God uses the earths elements just like He did in Egypt.

But thanks for mentioning the Red Sea. I never saw the connection before. The Land appears to be cooperating with God to deliver Israel. Much of this seems symbolic, however. The "Land" could represent the Palestinians, for example.
Exactly, its all symbolism.

Rev 12. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

This is one verse I just cannot understand! :(
If you have any ideas, let me know?
Yes sir, like Billy Swan "I can Help" (lol) remember Daniel 9:26-27?

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary(Rome); and the end thereof shall be with a flood(this refers to an Army overtaking a city like flood does quickly), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.(See how right after "The Flood" it speaks about a war? Its talking about 70 AD)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
===========================

Rev. 12:15 And the serpent(Satan) cast out of his mouth water as a flood(Anti-Christs Army) after the woman(Israel), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood(He's trying to kill off every Jew in the whole world, of course to prove God is not infallible, and to stop the promised Kingdom Age).

16 And the earth helped the woman(God uses the elements), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Basically, its just God prose, saying He Himself will protect Israel from the Anti-Christs armies supernaturally, but we already kind of knew this, but the prose God uses makes it seem mystical. Its like the enigma codes in WW2, they were bewildering, until we found out how to decode them, then we were like, ohh, this makes perfect sense now.
 
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RandyPNW

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No, God is telling us His Church who know the scriptures but not telling the world who doesn't know the scriptures. The Woman and 144,000 both seemingly refer to Israel, the 7 spirits and 7 eyes simple means God sees all and is everywhere, the 7 headed 10 horned beast is saying this is God's complete judgments against Israel for their backsliding ways. The whole book is symbolism, codes & metaphors.
When I 1st began to tackle the book of Revelation that was my view too, but in the end it was too obscure, too subjective. You could read anything you want into the symbolism. Why would God be so obscure, so hard to understand?

I do agree that John was given to make it difficult for the Roman world to comprehend, so that they wouldn't persecute John further for bad-mouthing the Roman Empire. But I can't see God making things so hard to understand for Christians, which is what your kind of symbolism does.

I do think some of the symbolism might be more comprehensible for Christians in the 1st century who were closer to the Jewish way of interpreting biblical prophecy. It might be apparent, for example, that anything with the number "7" in it is referencing something associated with a sabbath period, or with completing a process and then resting after it.

So perhaps describing 7 spirits makes sense in this regard, although my style of interpreting the Bible requires that the Bible actually identify something before making an assumption that the 7 spirits are this or that. We may, for example, have it elsewhere that the 7 spirits are identified in the way angels are identified in that book or elsewhere in prophetic literature.

One can see where the 7 heads and 10 horns come from, for example, in Dan 7. It is a prophecy of Antichrist who assumes control over 10 kingdoms, vanquishing 3 of the leaders. This makes 10 horns and 7 heads.

The 144,000 occurs in the format of Ezekiel's vision of the temple, which we already know was an artificial construction designed to show the people of his time how the temple should've properly functioned leading to the Kingdom. By common sense, we know that today there are not 12 tribes, because the tribes dissolved into a single nation many centuries ago, in fact millennia ago. They are emblematic of the fact God kept His promise to the 12 tribes to include them in the form of the Israeli nation all the way until the end of the age so that the nation would survive, if only for the time being in a remnant of believers.

But the woman going to her place in the wilderness sounds like a throwback to Eve being delivered from the serpent in the form of a nation doing what Elijah did, when he sought to escape Jezebel in the wilderness. These aren't always easy to "de-code," as you suggested. We simply have to know the Bible. You're right that its purpose doesn't appear to be overly-literal, since our focus was never to be on de-coding times and seasons, but rather, using information to keep ourselves spiritually prepared now.

The cherubim were clearly identified as angels in the book of Ezekiel. And so, the living creatures are not God, but representative of some of His characteristics as these angels carry out specific duties assigned to them by God. I just don't know what the "2 wings of the eagle" represent? Perhaps it is simply saying that something will help the mother of the man child, which may be Israel, escape in her place in Israel?
The eagle is God, who else do you think could protect Israel from these end time evil, terrorist thugs? Read it again, the earth protects Israel (woman) means God uses the earths elements just like He did in Egypt.
If the eagle was God I think the Bible would've identified it as such. But it doesn't. And we need to be cautious about adding to what is actually said in the book. We may speculate, but when we dogmatize about things that we're not sure about, we're starting to get in over our head. We may regret it later. I know I have because I've had to change my positions many, many times over the last 50 years!
Exactly, its all symbolism.
Yes sir, like Billy Swan "I can Help" (lol) remember Daniel 9:26-27?

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary(Rome); and the end thereof shall be with a flood(this refers to an Army overtaking a city like flood does quickly), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.(See how right after "The Flood" it speaks about a war? Its talking about 70 AD)
I'm very aware of that passage. I think the "flood" refers to a military deluge, an army.
16 And the earth helped the woman(God uses the elements), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Basically, its just God prose, saying He Himself will protect Israel from the Anti-Christs armies supernaturally, but we already kind of knew this, but the prose God uses makes it seem mystical. Its like the enigma codes in WW2, they wee bewildering, until we found out how to decode them, then we were like, ohh, this makes perfect sense now.
I sure hope so, because I've been praying for understanding for many years. And it does seem like some things become clearer as we get closer to their actual fulfillment.
 
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claninja

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Could this passage represent England and the US, who have been protecting Israel in the Middle East? England prepared the way for a modern Jewish State in Palestine. And the US is now the major protector of Israel against Iran. England and the US are clearly related and may constitute a single "eagle's two wings?"

Rev 12.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Probably not. It’s most likely just an OT allusion (exodus 19:4, Isaiah 40:31).
 
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Fisherking

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When I 1st began to tackle the book of Revelation that was my view too, but in the end it was too obscure, too subjective. You could read anything you want into the symbolism. Why would God be so obscure, so hard to understand?

I do agree that John was given to make it difficult for the Roman world to comprehend, so that they wouldn't persecute John further for bad-mouthing the Roman Empire. But I can't see God making things so hard to understand for Christians, which is what your kind of symbolism does.
But you are missing the real reason, its not about John, God supernaturally stopped the Roman's from killing him, so says the legend, and we know Jesus told all the disciples they would die a martyr save for John. So, Jesus had to get the early church off the ground, the worst way to accomplish this was to give them a book that seemed to the Roman's to be treasonous, so instead of naming Rome it was called the Fourth Beast or the 7 Headed Beast with the 6th head being Rome. Instead of saying the world was going to be judged (Rome felt they were the world) God used Babylon, this of course was humorous to the Romans, God was going to judge and destroy a dead city.

Also, if God had used Israel instead of the woman or 144,000, seeing as Rome had just destroyed Jerusalem and carried the Jews away. that would have also been seen as treasonous, in both cases they would have confiscated the book of Revelation and jailed or killed those church members, early on this would have hindered the church, Rome only started killing the church in mass in the 3rd century. Lastly, like Daniel, God did not even want the church to understand end time things until the end times. God after all knows what He is doing. Now, I am only speaking about in full, God never intended for anyone in the first century to grasp all this in full, but he gave the other passages to give them hints, like the Four Horses of Zechariah, the Gog a Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39 foretells the earth destruction by fire (even though the original Gog war has not come to pass yet). Rev. 17 is taken from Dan. 5, so God gave them shadows.

I do agree that John was given to make it difficult for the Roman world to comprehend, so that they wouldn't persecute John further for bad-mouthing the Roman Empire. But I can't see God making things so hard to understand for Christians, which is what your kind of symbolism does.

I do think some of the symbolism might be more comprehensible for Christians in the 1st century who were closer to the Jewish way of interpreting biblical prophecy. It might be apparent, for example, that anything with the number "7" in it is referencing something associated with a sabbath period, or with completing a process and then resting after it.

So perhaps describing 7 spirits makes sense in this regard, although my style of interpreting the Bible requires that the Bible actually identify something before making an assumption that the 7 spirits are this or that. We may, for example, have it elsewhere that the 7 spirits are identified in the way angels are identified in that book or elsewhere in prophetic literature.
7 in God speak equals divine completion, 10 equals completion, 6 equals man, 8 equals new beginnings and 12 equals fulness. The people of old did indeed understand how God used numbers in the old test. since the old Hebrew had like 3900 words and no vowels to speak of. The bible uses these numbers over and over in the old test. The book of Rev. is encoded with the old test.

I sure hope so, because I've been praying for understanding for many years. And it does seem like some things become clearer as we get closer to their actual fulfillment.
Yes, older and wiser. Gotta run. Have a nice day brother.
 
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