2 thess 2:3 "Falling Away"? is it Blasphemy

[Douggg]

Is this the reason why Christ is coming?

In part, to take vengeance out on them who have persecuted and martyred.

 

[Douggg]

All this is saying is that the chicken comes before the egg. The man sits in the temple of God before the day of the Lord. So the day of the Lord does not BEGIN with the man of sin sitting in the temple of God. It happens AFTER. So after this man finishes his 7 year desolation, then the Lord will come any day after that.

The day of the Lord begins when the person goes into temple, sits, claims to be God. As it kindles God's anger.

While Jesus's return, the literal day, is included within the day of the Lord, a timeframe, Jesus does not return to earth until well after the day of the Lord has begun.

Kevin, the day of the Lord includes many wonderful things over the long haul. It is the beginning of it, is when all the bad stuff takes place.
___________________________________________________________________________

I don't know where you are coming up with "7 year desolation" ? But the transgression of desolation (of worship and praise of the one True God in the temple) will be when the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. Which will be about 3 years 3 months after the 7 years begin.

Separately, but related, the abomination of desolation will be when the image of the beast is placed in the temple, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

 

[Kevin Snow]

The day of the Lord begins when the person goes into temple, sits, claims to be God. As it kindles God's anger.

While Jesus return, the literal day, is included within the day of the Lord, a timeframe, Jesus does not return to earth until well after the day of the Lord begins.

Kevin, the day of the Lord includes many wonderful things over the long haul. It is the beginning of it, is when all the bad stuff takes place.
___________________________________________________________________________

I don't know where you are coming up with "7 year desolation" ? But the transgression of desolation (of worship and praise of the one True God in the temple) will be when the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. Which will be about 3 years 3 months after the 7 years begin.

Separately, but related, the abomination of desolation will be when the image of the beast is placed in the temple, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

Son, I am stunned. This is completely unbiblical. It's time enough for you to be on your own trying to figure this out. It's time for you to learn something again under someone else.

 

[Douggg]

Like what?

Like possessing people. One of which will be the beast, possessed by the unclean spirit that will ascend out of the bottomless pit.

Oh... so there must be a massive bloodbath going on in the world that Christ needs to come to stop to help save some "flesh"? Not going to happen.

Jesus is not going to return? Is that what you are saying? And what to you mean by "help"... Jesus is only going to help?

Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Revelation 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

 

[TribulationSigns]

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

You are reading into Scripture because you omitted verse one and two. Read again!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV​

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The day of Christ is the Second Coming when we shall be gathered together (rapture) with him. Not the "day of the Lord" you believe will occur when your fantasy Satan-incarnated man sits in the Jewish temple, nor the rapture will need to take place before this. No, our "day" will occur AFTER two things must take place.

Paul is continuing what he was speaking about in 1Thessalonians5, about them saying peace and safety would be caught unexpectedly by the beginning of the Day of Lord. Jesus was speaking the same theme in the gospels, concerning the time of his return and also of the rapture..

Read again:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 KJV
[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.​

The Day of the Lord is the Judgment of His unfaithful congregation filled with false prophets and christs and people deceived by them! That word translated travail (odin) is the exact same Greek word that is translated sorrows in Matthew 24. This is the beginnings of travail, struggle or tribulation in the church, when false prophets abound and professed Christians foolishly think they have peace and safety with God and are safe but God has caused them to believe their lies (false doctrines, lying signs and wonder, 2nd Thess 2:9-11). They do NOT realize that they are NO LONGER SAFE behind church walls anymore for they are being subject to Satan's attack. Didn't you read that in Scripture? God is talking about HIS CONGREGATION making up of people redeemed from nations:

Ezekiel 38:8-12 KJV​

[8] After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
[9] Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
[10] Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
[11] And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
[12] To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Becuase of her unfaithfulness, God no longer protect HIs congregation and allowed Satan to come into through his people - the false propehts and christs - to spoil and take a prey on Gospel Truth where he will deceive many to believe his lies saying "peace and safetly". Yet the children of darkness will NOT realize that their congregations are under judgment, but the Elect, the children of light, can! That is why God allowed them to "see" the abomiantion of desolation if they realize what it really is so they will flee from her to avoid being partakers of her plagues (judgment from God) which is the false prophets and christs themselves! God did have HIs Elects to prophesy about it!

Ezekiel 38:13 KJV​

[13] Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

The Elect will know who are the enemies that is attacking their congregations! They are not Russians. They are not Iranians. They are not armies of Antichrist from Europe to invade your poor little nation of Israel. No, no no! The enemies are exactly who God said they are in Ezekiel 38/39 if you have spiritual discernment. Here is a hint. Look at what the army of Gog and Magog wear and what they armed with and compare these to what we wear and armed as Christians in Ephesians 6! You need to stop reading popular science to figure out nations' weaponry and start focus on a spiritual warfare!

 

[TribulationSigns]

In part, it is the judgment of God. You are taking a simplistic view of the Day of the Lord.

A judgment of God upon who? Come on.

 

[Douggg]

The day of Christ is the Second Coming when we shall be gathered together (rapture) with him. Not the "day of the Lord" you believe will occur when your fantasy Satan-incarnated man sits in the Jewish temple, nor the rapture will need to take place before this. No, our "day" will occur AFTER two things must take place.

You had asked for verses regarding the beginning of the Day of the Lord. You did not as me about the rapture.

The rapture is in 2Thessalonians2:1, reflecting back to what Paul had said to the Thessalonians in
1Thessalonians4:15-18, and not being appointed to the wrath that will be during the Day of the Lord in 1Thessalionians 5, and the rapture in 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

The rapture occurs before the Day of the Lord begins. But it is not known how long before.

 

[TribulationSigns]

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Will you at least try to read the whole context instead of pulling a single verse out of context? Read again! Who is it that devil is having wrath against?

Revelation 12:12-17 KJV
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
​

The woman is Congregation Israel! National Israel was a representative of the woman when Christ was born up to the Cross. But the kingdom representation was taken from Israel and gave to the church whom Christ rebuilt in 3 days with his resurrection. The woman now represents the church. She went into the wilderness (symbolically the world) where she is fed with Gospel for 1,260 days, a symbolic period of the New Testament period. After the Cross, Christ went up into heaven and kicked Satan out of the congregation (heaven) where a woman is so that Satan will not be able to prevent people from being saved. Although Satan was bound by God so that he could not deceive the nations until the building of the church is finished, he still comes as a roaring lion to try stop the Saints from expanding God's kingdom to the ends of the world.

So, after the building of the church is finished, with all Gentiles be coming in, Satan will be loosened to deceive the nation again. But God is using Satan and his armies of false prophets and christs to bring them again church (mountain of Israel) to spoil the Gospel and to deceive people who do not love the Truth despite being warned about it. The people of the congregation will cry, "Peace and safety" not realizing that the destruction has come upon them. But the Elects do and mourned over her.

Well, something to think about.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 38:13 KJV[13] Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

The Elect will know who are the enemies that is attacking their congregations! They are not Russians. They are not Iranians. They are not armies of Antichrist from Europe to invade your poor little nation of Israel. No, no no! The enemies are exactly who God said they are in Ezekiel 38/39 if you have spiritual discernment. Here is a hint. Look at what the army of Gog and Magog wear and what they armed with and compare these to what we wear and armed as Christians in Ephesians 6! You need to stop reading popular science to figure out nations' weaponry and start focus on a spiritual warfare!

It says Persia in the text. Iran.

Gog/Magog is not the armies of the person who becomes the Antichrist. I don't know where you would get such an idea, but not from me.

 

[Douggg]

The woman is Congregation Israel! National Israel

You are writing your own bible apparently. Use terms that are in the bible. Not ones that you create.

[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Israel will have embraced Jesus as the messiah at that point - having gone through the fiasco of thinking the Antichrist was the messiah. before he reveals himself to be the man of sin.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The rapture is in 2Thessalonians2:1, reflecting back to what Paul had said to the Thessalonians in
1Thessalonians4:15-18, and not being appointed to the wrath that will be during the Day of the Lord in 1Thessalionians 5, and the rapture in 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

NO, you don't get it. The day of the Lord is the time of Wrath upon His unfaithful congregation (not the world). The Elect will STILL be here to WITNESS this because God told them to come out of her. Not being rapture out of the earth. Our rapture will occur the "day" Christ will return at the last trump, AFTER the "hour" of the judgment of the harlot is finished. Then the judgment of the WORLD will begin.

The rapture occurs before the Day of the Lord begins. But it is not known how long before.

No. God did tell us when our rapture will be. At the Last Trump.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It says Persia in the text. Iran.

Nope!

Gog/Magog is not the armies of the person who becomes the Antichrist. I don't know where you would get such and idea, but not from me.

I was saying this because there are all kind of theories of how National Israel shall be attacked. Whether it is the Russians and her Islamic nations, China, or armies from Europe under Antichrist. So yes, it still applies to you because I did say, Russians, didn't I?

 

[Douggg]

NO, you don't get it. The day of the Lord is the time of Wrath upon His unfaithful congregation (not the world)

Doesn't sound like it in theses verses...

Revelation 16:
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are writing your own bible apparently. Use terms that are in the bible. Not ones that you create.

Tell me, who is this woman:

Revelation 12:1-4 KJV
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.​

Maybe you can ask Little Lamb to answer these questions:

1.) What does the heaven represents if woman did not float in outer space?

2.) What does the sun, moon, and stars reprsent, if woman did not literally wore them?

3.) Why was the red dragon appears in heaven?

4.) What does seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads represents?

5.) Why did Satan drw third part of stars of heaven? And cast them to earth?

6.) How will dragon devour woman's child? Born in heaven?​

I do not make my doctrine up. You need to compare Scripture with Scripture to find God's meaning to these terms to know His interpretation. Not mine. I just testify with what I understand based on Scripture. Not Hal lindsay.

Israel will have embraced Jesus as the messiah at that point - having gone through the fiasco of thinking the Antichrist was the messiah. before he reveals himself to be the man of sin.

Not going to happen. Is national Israel really looking for Messiah today? You got WRONG Israel! That is why God has caused many people to believe a lie with what they heard in the church concerning Israel because you do not love the Truth that was testified to you.

 

[Douggg]

Nope!

Persia, is not in the text?

I am pretty sure it is....

Ezekiel 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

 

[TribulationSigns]

Doesn't sound like it in theses verses...

Revelation 16:
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Geez-whiz. Why didn't you study Scripture to find out what earthquake signifies of? Judgment? Not a physical shakinig of the earth! And why did you omit verse 17? What is done with? Is it the punishment of the harlot, a great city? Is it not Great Babylon in context?

Do you even know what stone of a talent refers to? Why do men blaspheme God with "a talent"? Try to study the parables of a talent in Matthew 25 yourself and find out what happened to a servant with ONE TALENT. This is the same spiritual picture those lazy professed Christians who do not do the will of God or do the work of God. They are the ones being judged that the plague of the hails of THEIR talent signifies! In other words, it is THEIR WORK in the congregation what is blasphemy against God. Try to pray for spiritual understanding will you?

 

[Douggg]

Maybe you can ask Little Lamb to answer these questions:

1.) What does the heaven represents if woman did not float in outer space?

2.) What does the sun, moon, and stars reprsent, if woman did not literally wore them?

3.) Why was the red dragon appears in heaven?

4.) What does seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads represents?

5.) Why did Satan drw third part of stars of heaven? And cast them to earth?

6.) How will dragon devour woman's child? Born in heaven?

Is "Little Lamb" a name you came up for yourself?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Of course, It is SO EASY and quite tempting to read of these former territories of Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, and Togarman and simply decide that God’s Word is more literal than spiritual. Sorry, you do need to have a spiritual understanding about these nations and what they wear and armed with. It is not what you think they are!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Is "Little Lamb" a name you came up for yourself?

You know who this member is. Do some researching. My point is, will you end up like him for not answering questions.

 

[Douggg]

You know who this member is. Do some researching. My point is, will you end up like him for not answering questions.

I have responded to posts you have made full of a multitude of questions and statements, with 15 posts in the last day alone.

Now, you go off on a splurge of random questions - and the response to some of which take very long extended explanations. And want to claim I am not answering questions? Anyone can machine gun a hundred questions, TS.

Tell me, who is this woman:

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Not the church. Jesus was not born to the church. The church did not exist at that time.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.