2 thess 2:3 "Falling Away"? is it Blasphemy

[seventysevens]

You simply say the Holy Spirit "steps" aside...that's all you have. When there is nothing else in scripture that depicts or prophesies this period of stepping aside. You are blatantly wrong and unwilling to change and this is common for the lot of you.

I did not say that stepping out of the way has to be the sole answer- I just merely used that as an expression to show that it is possible - the fact is that it IS the Holy Spirit that is restraining the evil one as He has done long before Paul said it - You have not proved anything at all of this and you did not prove the the Holy Spirit is not the restrainer ,

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Kevin Snow, post: 72925940, member: 409649"]No, this is what you have done. You only express your opinion and then you call your opinion the word of God.

I have sought to be humble here by parting ways and saying the Lord will reveal it to you in time. Then you took this as though you had won the discussion. You are all turned about.

And as you are wrong about your interpretation, so you are wrong about me. And the problem of proof is on your shoulders. You simply say the Holy Spirit "steps" aside...that's all you have. When there is nothing else in scripture that depicts or prophesies this period of stepping aside. You are blatantly wrong and unwilling to change and this is common for the lot of you.[/QUOTE
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This is perhaps not directly 'blameable' on any person today,
per se, as it has been centuries since the error was introduced on purpose, and deceived mulitudes - most people never hear the truth from any family, friend or church, and have no idea how nor where to find it, nor the diligence and willingness
and basically (maybe) no encouragement to keep seeking for the truth (TRUSTING THE FATHER GOD) until He Reveals it. (the only way someone can learn it, and practically never endorsed by anyone in power over the people) ....

 

[Kevin Snow]

Kevin you said a type of Elijah comes and unites Israel and Judah. And builds the temple ....will he anoint a son of David on the throne? Before antichrist comes?

I just trying to understand your chronology of Daniel 9....

490 years from the
Commandment to rebuild Jerusalem by elijah?
49 years to messiah the prince?
483 years to the antichrist 7 year covenant?

You've got that right there except there is no anointing of the son of David on the throne. It says elsewhere that the prince of the covenant sits in the "tent" of David, thereby acknowledging his stewardship before God as Yahshua is the King who reigns in heaven.

then a throne will be established in steadfast love, and on it will sit in faithfulness in the tent of David one who judges and seeks justice and is swift to do righteousness.” ~Isaiah 16:5

This is the prince of the covenant.

 

[TribulationSigns]

TS, you are missing the cumulative point of 1Thessalonians4, 1Thessalonians5, 2Thessalonians2. And that is the church is going to be raptured out of the world before the Day of the Lord begins when the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.

So you insisted that the church, all over the world, must be taken out of the Earth because of what will happen in Jersualem as a man about to set his foot in the rebuilt Jewish temple of God on Temple Mount that God considered as "wrath of God"? [chuckle].

Frankly, you are the one who missed the point Christ was making, and you probably are the one of many deceived ones He talked about:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 KJV

[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,​

[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God is not talking abotu the supernatural power of antichrist. Do you not know what Satan's power and signs and lying wonders are? It is the false doctrines that came out of the mouths of false propehts and christs that deceive many IN THE CHURCH (Temple). Not Jewish temple!

Have fun with your pre tribulation rapture theories based on man-made jewish fables.

 

[dfw69]

You've got that right there except there is no anointing of the son of David on the throne. It says elsewhere that the prince of the covenant sits in the "tent" of David, thereby acknowledging his stewardship before God as Yahshua is the King who reigns in heaven.

then a throne will be established in steadfast love, and on it will sit in faithfulness in the tent of David one who judges and seeks justice and is swift to do righteousness.” ~Isaiah 16:5

This is the prince of the covenant.

In this passage I believe the oppressor is the final antichrist who will scatter Israel to the wilderness...to Moab ...Moab will feed her ....and hide her ....until the oppressor ceast. ..then will yahshua sit on the tabernacle of David

 

[The Times]

sin is not restrained by words (scripture), but by the power of the Word (which is the Spirit).

then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

The Power of the Word is by the Breath of Jesus mouth, through his Elect.

The gates of Hell shall not prevail against my Elect (Church). If only it was possible the Elect would also be deceived, but since Jesus has the last Word, the enemy will not prevail against his Elect. Amen!

 

[The Times]

He who is in the midst of the Church who restrains, is the Spirit of Christ. When Christ is taken out of the Churches, then the Spirit is no longer there.

The Daily Sacrifice, owing to the Spiritual sacrifices of Living stones who are guided by the Spirit of Christ (Romans 12:1-2).

Obvioisly the removal of the Living Stones, will remove the restraint and give way for the Abomination that Maketh Desolate to be setup in their place. The spirit of Satan to replace the Spirit of Christ.

When Christ is taken out of the Churches, then the Spirit is no longer there. Then will the spirit of Satan be loosed to take it's place as the substitute, or anti-Christ.

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will commence a time of trouble (tribulation) never to be repeated ever.

Many make the exact same error in defining the man of sin (lawlessness) as they think he also is a single man, thee Antichrist. But the man of sin is an Antichrist, not "thee" Antichrist.

Yes. I also would claim that the EVEN HIM, alludes to a religious leader (The Black Dragon of Apostasy), who paves the way for the spirit of Satan. This EVEN HIM is the counter part player to John the Baptist, in preparing the way for his master Satan, for a one world Luciferean religion.

These evil men who don't follow the laws of God all have one thing in common. They all are sons of the Devil with the spirit of Satan in them. They are son of Perdition, all in servitude to Satan.

Anthropos (Man) of Sin, means Peoples of Sin. These are the Judas Iscariots from within the Church congregations and assemblies. These like Judas Iscariot are the many Sons of Perdition. They are not outsiders, but insiders.

Zechariah 14:1-3 states that the enemy will infiltrate from within the very walls of Jerusalem (Church) and rape the women (denominations) from within.

This great tribulation and iniquity (matthew 24) has been prevented from happening for nearly 2000 years because Satan was bound as God builds His Church.

Absolutely! It makes perfect sense exegetically.

he was obviously bound from being able to do so by God. He cannot bring it until he is loosed.

Since the symbol of the two witnesses symbolises the Church's commission to preach the gospel to all the Gentile nations (Gentiles come to full), then the end will come, where the beast of the bottomless pitt aka Satan will be loosened for the last and final time, within the Sons of Perdition (Like Judas Iscariot) and the John the Baptist counterpart EVEN HIM.

 

[FatalHeart]

Let's get back to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit: "He said this because they were saying, 'He has an evil spirit.'" Mark 3:30. So, it's not talking about speaking against the Holy Spirit in regard to, "I don't believe God exists," or, "Show me proof." It's talking about a much more dark spiritual rejection. It also says that it won't be forgiven in the age to come, which may have been said in case someone likes to say we are only forgiven in this life and not in the next for what we do, or, it might allude to the idea that there's still a relationship even after the new heaven and earth, still some form of being guided and led. I also believe that the Holy Spirit is the one standing in the way and when it is removed from leadership will be the rebellion it talks about, since lawlessness is elsewhere defined as sin, and, without the means to obey God, there is only lawlessness. However, we have to be careful not to make assumptions and condemn those who still have hope. It is one thing to question someone's salvation or to warn them of unstable ground, but telling people in sin that they are without hope is not something you want to be held accountable for. Hence, perhaps, the reasons these things are left vague. The important thing here to get from these scriptures is that there is sin and that damnation is real and that there are points of no return to avoid, that your actions matter, and that when Satan says, "You won't surely die," he is lying. We must take seriously the idea of "falling away," and pursue righteousness to the end of our lives. Whether you believe once saved always saved or not, it was never sanctioned to live a life of sin, nor will it ever be rewarded, and furthermore, the God of grace, when turned to, is more than capable of making your life worth something.

 

[Douggg]

So you insisted that the church, all over the world, must be taken out of the Earth because of what will happen in Jersualem as a man about to set his foot in the rebuilt Jewish temple of God on Temple Mount that God considered as "wrath of God"?

I have no idea where you are coming up with that remark.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have no idea where you are coming up with that remark.

Try check with your previous post #99, genius.

 

[Douggg]

Try check with your previous post #99, genius.

What are you talking about? You are making no sense whatsoever.

Why would anyone say that the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - is the wrath of God?

 

[TribulationSigns]

What are you talking about? You are making no sense whatsoever.

Why would anyone say that the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - is the wrath of God?

Obviously you are playing games here.

Read your comment:

"TS, you are missing the cumulative point of 1Thessalonians4, 1Thessalonians5, 2Thessalonians2. And that is the church is going to be raptured out of the world before the Day of the Lord begins when the person goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God."

-Douggg, Post #99​

Hello? You are the one who said it. Now you are denying it after I wrote a response as followed:

"So you insisted that the church, all over the world, must be taken out of the Earth because of what will happen in Jersualem as a man about to set his foot in the rebuilt Jewish temple of God on Temple Mount that God considered as "wrath of God?"​

That is why I asked you if the "day of the Lord" is considered as "wrath of God"? Yes or no? If yes, then your position on antichrist sits in the temple is considered as God's wrath that the church needs to be raptured out before this. By the way, your understanding of the timing of the Day of the Lord" isn't correct, to begin with anyway.

 

[Douggg]

That is why I asked you if the "day of the Lord" is considered as "wrath of God"? Yes or no?

First of all, you did not ask me that question in your post. What you did ask was if the act of the person, setting foot in the temple - that God considered the wrath of God. Which, I don't know why anyone would even ask such a ridiculous question, but you did.

You appear to now ask me a different question of - is the Day of the Lord considered the wrath of God?

The answer is "no" overall. But does contain God's wrath in part.

The Day of the Lord begins when the person commits the act in 2Thessalonians2:4 which is not just setting foot in the temple as you phrased it.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Day of the Lord begins then. The first beginnings of the Day of the Lord contains wrath. Wrath from God, and wrath from Satan. There will be persecutions, murders, by the wicked men of the world, as well. And evil activity by the fallen angels, and demons. All on such a scale, that no flesh would survive if not shortened, limited.

Until the day that Jesus returns to end it all. Then the Day of the Lord goes into the restoration of the earth phase and the millennium reign of Jesus. Then after the thousand years, the Day of the Lord continues into eternity.

 

[dfw69]

The evening and morning sacrifices were commanded as a perpetual statue for Israel. They have nothing to do with sacrifices for sin. There are NO sacrifices for sin in the third temple because Yahshua fulfilled the law. That fulfillment does NOT abolish the law at all. The Israelites are still to keep the law as it was given to them. Except in the matter of clean and unclean animals and sacrifices for sin must they keep the whole law.

What does the morning and evening sacrifices mean if its not for sin?.....why must animals die?...a memorial?

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Day of the Lord begins when the person commits the act in 2Thessalonians2:4 which is not just setting foot in the temple as you phrased it.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Day of the Lord begins then.

The Day of the Lord has nothing to do with your fantasy man sitting in Jewish Temple. Show me the Scripture where God said exactly what you have speculated above.

The first beginnings of the Day of the Lord contains wrath.

The Day of the Lord is the JUDGMENT of God. The real question is... judges upon WHO? The Bible has an answer which you need to research and show it to me. And sorry nothing to do man sitting in temple.

Wrath from God, and wrath from Satan.

Wrath of Satan? Where do you read that in Scripture? DO you not realize that God is using Satan as a tool of His judgment. Again use him against who? An army of human soldiers marching into national Israel or His unfaithful New Testament Congregation of Israel called by His name, the church, where false prophets/christs rules (sits) within her? Here is a hint (wink wink).

There will be persecutions, murders, by the wicked men of the world, as well.

Is this the reason why Christ is coming?

And evil activity by the fallen angels, and demons.

Like what?

All on such a scale, that no flesh would survive if not shortened, limited.

Oh... so there must be a massive bloodbath going on in the world that Christ needs to come to stop to help save some "flesh"? Not going to happen.

until the day that Jesus returns to end it all.

Because of physical killings in the world and not the judgment of a harlot is fulfilled? Only if you know who the harlot really is!

 

[The Times]

@TribulationSigns you make perfect sense to me. In my opinion I boast of God to have his knowledge imparted through you.

We certainly are coming head on with the prophesy of Zechariah 14:1-3, where Jerusalem, the City of Peace where God dwells, post Pentecost context, will be the labour pains of the woman (The Church), once again, in the final gleaning of the Harvest, before Christ's brilliant coming, at the end of this temporal world.

@Douggg you are beloved of the Lord, there is no fleshly or real estate gain for Christ in this world. This world is passing and the Kingdom of Christ is not of this world, but we know that God has set the Extinction Protocol in play, once Jerusalem, His Son's Church is infiltrated from within by the many Sons of Perdition (Judas Iscariots) and then we will know the two sides.

 

[Douggg]

The Day of the Lord has nothing to do with your fantasy man sitting in Jewish Temple. Show me the Scripture where God said exactly what you have speculated above.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Okay, go find the "day of Christ" in any previous writings of Paul in 1Thessalonians.

Paul is continuing what he was speaking about in 1Thessalonians5, about them saying peace and safety would be caught unexpectedly by the beginning of the Day of Lord. Jesus was speaking the same theme in the gospels, concerning the time of his return and also of the rapture..

 

[Douggg]

The Day of the Lord is the JUDGMENT of God. The real question is... judges upon WHO? The Bible has an answer which you need to research and show it to me. And sorry nothing to do man sitting in temple.

In part, it is the judgment of God. You are taking a simplistic view of the Day of the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

Wrath of Satan? Where do you read that in Scripture? DO you not realize that God is using Satan as a tool of His judgment. Again use him against who? An army of human soldiers marching into national Israel or His unfaithful New Testament Congregation of Israel called by His name, the church, where false prophets/christs rules (sits) within her? Here is a hint (wink wink).

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Kevin Snow]

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Okay, go find the "day of Christ" in any previous writings of Paul in 1Thessalonians.

Paul is continuing what he was speaking about in 1Thessalonians5, about them saying peace and safety would be caught unexpectedly by the beginning of the Day of Lord. Jesus was speaking the same theme in the gospels, concerning the time of his return and also of the rapture..

But wait. It says "that day" (the day of the Lord) "shall not come UNTIL the man of sin is revealed"

All this is saying is that the chicken comes before the egg. The man sits in the temple of God before the day of the Lord. So the day of the Lord does not BEGIN with the man of sin sitting in the temple of God. It happens AFTER. So after this man finishes his 7 year desolation, then the Lord will come any day after that.