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2 Peter 3:10-12. Not when but how?

sovereigngrace

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That is simply not true, and you know it. It means nothing. The opposite is the truth. This is just theological politicking. That is normally your default when you have nothing to support your teaching. Anyone fair, open, informed and objective will see the recaps in Revelation. They are undoubted! Revelation 20 is the last of 7. This is the only understanding that fits in with the rest of Scripture.

I was one who believed and preached Premil until I actually started to let the Scriptures speak for themselves. I was actually writing a book in support of it and changed my position after 6 months because of the lack of corroboration.

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalm 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5) all show that the end of the bondage of corruption occurs when Jesus comes. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.
 
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DavidPT

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Suppose that I never got on the internet in my entire life. Suppose that I never had an interest in computers whatsoever. Since we are meaning me here, before I got on the internet I had no clue that the way I read Revelation 19-20, that this made me Premil. Nor did I have a clue that there was a position called Amil.

Let's suppose Amil is the correct position, regardless. Now explain how I could become Amil if the Scriptures are not even teaching this to me begin with, otherwise why did I end up concluding the thousand years are after the 2nd coming? Per this scenario, didn't I do that on my own? Why then, assuming Amil is the correct position instead, could I not on my own conclude that the thousand years are prior to the 2nd coming? If Amil is the correct position, and unless one is already aware of that position, this means the Scriptures themselves would be teaching them the incorrect view because they would never be able to see the Scriptures teaching them something they are not even aware of to begin with.

I see that as a red flag myself, that one has to first be aware that Revelation 19-20 can be read in another manner other than chronologically, and that maybe not everyone might be aware of that, and that no one could possibly be aware of that via their own reading of the text, thus they have to first be influenced by outside sources. If Amil is the correct position, why can't one simply read the Bible on their own, without any outside influence whatsoever, then see that Scripture is indeed teaching Amil? You were Premil before you were Amil. Why weren't you Amil first if you now see Scriptures teaching Amil? Why didn't you initially see Scripture teaching Amil?
 
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sovereigngrace

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This is all fizz and bubble. Your mind will never be the litmus test. You fight so much clear and simple truth.

I was taught Premil. Once I saw the constant climactic nature of Christ's return throughout the Word, the 2 age-contruct, the clear recaps of Revelation, Premil quickly fell apart. Premil is the imposition of one's own opinions on one highly symbolic passage the most obscure setting in Scripture.

Your constant avoidance of argument after argument, text after text and question after question reinforces this.
 
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keras

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It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.
Not so. The Return cannot be the final end of Gods Plan for mankind.
Proved by the many scriptures that say Jesus will rule the world as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He does not destroy that which He rules over.
Nothing in Revelation, or elsewhere, says that. He only destroys the armies of Satan and neutralizes him until the Millennium is over.

The other fact that destroys AMill, is Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind and planet earth.
There has been 5991, +/- 1 or 2; years since Adam, so not long now and the last 1000 years will commence. THEN the new heavens and earth comes, with Eternity.
 
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sovereigngrace

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No such thing as "Gods 7000 year Plan." It is Keras's 7000 year Plan. It is extra-biblical and anti-biblical.
 
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keras

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No such thing as "Gods 7000 year Plan." It is Keras's 7000 year Plan. It is extra-biblical and anti-biblical.
The time periods as given in the Bible and the elapsed time to the Crucifixion are proof of 4000 years from Adam to then.
Then; nearly another 2000 years to where we are now.
After Jesus Returns, He will reign for the next thousand years, as clearly stated in Revelation 20.
Total of 7000 years; Creation to Completion for mankind.

Biblical truth+ 100% , SG's opinion = 0%
 
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sovereigngrace

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Zero biblical truth, just your futile date-setting and ill-advised personal speculations. The burden of truth is with you, because you're making these outlandish claims, but alas you have nothing to bring to the table.
 
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Timtofly

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No such thing as "Gods 7000 year Plan." It is Keras's 7000 year Plan. It is extra-biblical and anti-biblical.
No such thing as recap in Revelation either. There is more about 6 days and a Sabbath, than a recap, which is not described once in Scripture. Recap is extra-biblical and even anti-biblical. It denies the Sabbath Day of the Lord.
 
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keras

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Zero biblical truth, just your futile date-setting and ill-advised personal speculations. The burden of truth is with you, because you're making these outlandish claims, but alas you have nothing to bring to the table.
I presented scriptural truths, time periods as given in the Bible. Then a simply year count to show the exact fulfilment of 4000 years Adam to Jesus, we are now 1991 years past Jesus' Ascension.
These facts prove the 7000 year Plan of God for mankind.

Your denials and rejection of provable facts is an indictment against you.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Not so.. All opinions and theories. No evidence. No facts.
 
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DavidPT

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Not so.. All opinions and theories. No evidence. No facts.


Unless something allegedly supports Amil, let's face it, it is utterly impossible for you to see anything as being evidence by others no matter what. I guess that makes you objective and unbiased---not.
 
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Lutja ka fuqi

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It has been a great post which helped us a lot. Additionally, We would like also to invite you at our website "Lutja ka Fuqi" for more christian books, devotionals and more encourages. Thank you very much. We really appreciate it!
 
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sovereigngrace

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Unless something allegedly supports Amil, let's face it, it is utterly impossible for you to see anything as being evidence by others no matter what. I guess that makes you objective and unbiased---not.

I understand you are getting increasingly frustrated with rebuting Amil but that is because your fight is with Scripture. You have bought into error and you are now struggling to justify it. All this when the Amil arguments are becoming increasingly air-tight.

You should embrace the truth rather than fight it.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Unless something allegedly supports Amil, let's face it, it is utterly impossible for you to see anything as being evidence by others no matter what. I guess that makes you objective and unbiased---not.

The whole Word is Amil. I embrace it all! I reject your non-corroborative theory re Revelation 20. It is exposed by multiple Scripture. Stop fighting the truth. You are advancing a doctrine, not inspired truth.
 
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keras

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Not so.. All opinions and theories. No evidence. No facts.
This kind of knee jerk reaction shows your complete lack of understanding of God's Plans for mankind. As set out in our Bibles.

Regarding the issue of a Millennium reign of Jesus, what AMills fail to see is how the Messiah is portrayed as a conquering King in the Torah, [all the OT] which is why the Jews rejected Jesus at His first Advent, when He came as a suffering servant.
But; the Son of Man will come into His Kingdom. Matthew 16:28b , Zechariah 14:16-21, +
 
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sovereigngrace

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Hebrews 2:14-15 teaches: through death he would destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”

I John 3:8 declares, For this purpose the son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”

When you start to grasp what the inspired pages testify of the devil, this big fearful intimidating devil starts to look a lot smaller and less intimidating. He’s like a dog on a chain today.

Please know: we are not fighting for victory today we are fighting from victory.

Jesus testified in Revelation 3:21: “I … overcame.”

Revelation 5:5 tells us: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed.”

The lion is known as the king of the jungle. It carries great authority and power. That is a very potent symbol of who Jesus is.

The enemy is already defeated. Satan is a defeated foe. Jesus spiritual bound his power and influence.

Repeated Scripture portrays a victorious Christ since His all-conquering resurrection.

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

• Satan is powerless to do what he wants to do.
• He is powerless to stop the Church of Jesus Christ spreading the good news of Gospel throughout the nations.
• He is powerless to stop someone coming to Christ.
• He is powerless to stop a man or woman of God walking in the will of God.
• He is powerless to harm a believer without God’s permission.
• He is powerless to resist a Spirit-filled believer implementing delegated authority from on high against the devil and his demons.
• He is powerless to affect the final outcome of this great battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

You need to see the enemy for who he is. We need to see demons for who they are. They are just like grasshoppers trying to stop God doing His will. It would be easier to stop Niagara Falls with a lollipop stick than to stop God doing what he wants to do. Our Lord sits in the heavenlies laughing at the schemes of the wicked.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Fire, as theophany of existence demonstrates God's presence: Exodus 3:2-6: Exodus 19:18

Fire, as theophany of existence and judgement: 2 Thessalonians 1:7 in second coming context - not including the references in Revelations in similar judgement context.

A symbol of God's wrath and anger: Psalms 89:46, Isaiah 66:15, Lamentations 2:4, Ezekiel 21:31 etc

God's presence and His Judgement is what we see clearly expressed in Peter's reference. In the second coming God is coming in Judgement, and every work is burned up and seen for what it is in truth.

Not necessarily literal, but absolutely symbolic.
 
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keras

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Repeated Scripture portrays a victorious Christ since His all-conquering resurrection.
Repeated prophesies say how Jesus will Return to the earth and physically reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. For a thousand years.

Belief of this happening now, is a fantasy and shows a divorce from reality.

Fire, as theophany of existence demonstrates God's presence:
Fire, as described in over 70 Bible prophesies, shows what the Lord intends to use on His Day of vengeance and wrath.
He used water in the days of Noah, this time fire will devastate the world and prepare the way for all the prophesies about the end times to take place, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus to reign for the next thousand years.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Once again, avoid every Scripture presented, and every argument included, and keep presenting your extra-biblical error. This is your MO. It is pointless engaging with you. All you present is personal opinions and elaborate theories.
 
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keras

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Once again SG avoids every prophecy pointed out, every fact presented and keeps on pushing his fantasy world of Satan bound now and Jesus as current world ruler. It is his delusion.
Engaging with him is pointless, as he is locked into the false theory of AMill. His elaborate beliefs are a total divergence from reality and his unsupported opinions are worthless.
 
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