2 Cor 3:6-11 Affirms the Law of God, and the New Covenant where it is written on the heart

[simplefaith]

People who relentlessly stress ''you must obey the TC'' believe Heaven hinges on it. But, how many of them when their child reaches puberty would tell them if they dwelt on any impure thought they risked hell due to transgressing the TC? I haven't come across any who would. So, do they only have a shallow understanding of what obedience to those commands entails, or, do they not care about their childrens eternity, or, are they simply preaching a message of wilfull hypocrisy?

 

[HIM]

Oh its quite relevant to point out people who much stress you must obey the TC only have a shallow understanding of what that entails, from your first response to me it is obvious that offends you. I wonder why

Because you are a Christian and you continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site.

 

[simplefaith]

Because you are a Christian and you continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site.

I would say you have been far more offensive to me than the other way around.

 

[simplefaith]

Because you are a Christian and you continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site.

OK, let's discuss the issue I wrote of that upset you. I will assume you believe a person must obey the TC, and therefore Heaven hinges on it. So, would you believe if a person put anything before God in their life, if they erected any graven image in their mind, if they looked at a woman with lust in their eye(Jesus ratified the commandment) if they told any little fibs about another, if they desired anything of their neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household, or, if they dwelt on any impure thought they risked hell due to transgressing the TC? If you would say any of those things would result in a person risking hell due to transgressing the TC, I will happily say you do not have or act on a shallow understanding of the TC. Is that fair?

 

[Leaf473]

When I have inquired as to the relative status of the other commandments (which I have done frequently) I have had a mixed variety of responses. The most common is that all the other ones are encompassed by the ten and, therefore, can be viewed simply as commentary. Another response has been that because the commandments relating to the sacrificial system are now unattainable, having been replaced by Jesus Christ's sacrifice, only the ten remain applicable to life today. A slightly more sophisticated rendition is to divide the Law into the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law. Using this paradigm one is free to determine which commandments are "Moral" and which are not and, therefore, irrelevant.

None of this is at all new, of course. The long nineteenth century provided the necessary environment for this to be developed. What we see today are the remnants of this culture. It is expressed not merely within Christianity but in our society at large where there are various effort to place the Ten Commandments in all areas of public activity. Interestingly, some of this stems from earlier architectural embellishment of court buildings, including the U. S. Supreme Court where there is not only a statue of Moses holding the Ten Commandments, but also Hammurabi, holding a copy of his famous code. Both are intended to depict ancient sources of laws. Curiously, we do no see a groundswell today to copies of Hammurabi's Code placed in public venues.

There is a fringe element in Christianity who pride themselves on being the carriers of Truth in the face of the rest of Christendom which has lapsed into falsehoods of various sorts. I certainly see this with folks who insist that the King James Bible is God's truly inspired scripture for all of mankind and any other translation is false and perverted. I also have encountered many folks who truly believe that the Ten Commandments are God's infallible commandments for mankind and there are no others of any greater significance.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate your input

 

[HIM]

OK, let's discuss the issue I wrote of that upset you.

Upset? Not in the least. They don’t even apply to me.

The issue is this disrespectful comment

, I will happily say you do not have or act on a shallow understanding of the TC. Is that fair?

And this one

those who keep stating ''you must obey the TC'' only have a very shallow understanding

And this one

It adds more to the conversation than you are able to understand

And this one

Is it not a problem, if someone with only a shallow understanding

And this one

people who much stress you must obey the TC only have a shallow understanding

And this one

I haven't come across any who would. So, do they only have a shallow understanding of what obedience to those commands entails, or, do they not care about their childrens eternity, or, are they simply preaching a message of wilfull hypocrisy?

You are a Christian and yetyou continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site. Your word doesn’t mean anything?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Is it not a problem, if someone with only a shallow understanding of what obedience to the TC entails, tells someone who does understand what obedience entails that if they do not obey the TC they cannot enter heaven?

I agree with you completely. Sadly, there seems to be far too many people who want to think that their obedience to the TC will merit their entrance into heaven.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree with you completely. Sadly, there seems to be far too many people who want to think that their obedience to the TC will merit their entrance into heaven.

The Ten Commandments are not kept to earn your way into heaven, its because those who are in Christ (has a right relationship with Him) He imputes His righteousness and Jesus kept the commandments and lived to be our example to follow 1John 2:6 and taught not to break or teach others to break the least of them Mat 5:19-30 and those who have faith in Him believe and live His teachings. The commandments are kept not to be saved but because one is saved Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins.

 

[simplefaith]

Upset? Not in the least. They don’t even apply to me.

The issue is this disrespectful comment


And this one

And this one

And this one

And this one

And this one


You are a Christian and yetyou continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site. Your word doesn’t mean anything?

OK, so in truth you take offence at my stating people who keep stressing you must obey the TC only have a shallow understanding of what that entails. However, you cannot actually address the subject when given the opportunity to do so, only attack me personally. Doesn't look good in my view.

 

[HIM]

I agree with you completely. Sadly, there seems to be far too many people who want to think that their obedience to the TC will merit their entrance into heaven.

No one here believes that I am aware of. @SabbathBlessings do you believe that? @BobRyan do you?

 

[HIM]

Is 66:23 points to the weekly Sabbath kept for all eternity after the cross , in the New Earth. Which directly addressed your "Sabbath ended" comment.

I don't see how that is even a little bit confusing.

Hey there Bob. I was really hoping for a response to this.


Really?

I do and you and I are in the same court more or less. The fact that the new moon is mentioned is the issue. So by all appearances to the surface reader the new Moon festivals will be kept also in the new earth and heaven that are made by our Lord.

If new moon is a bad translation how do you prove that it is and is suppose to be translated just month? Not sure I seen a good explanation of this here in this thread. But then I only scanned the thread.
It is a translation issue. And we can lay it out here. I only ask to make sure it is covered and to provoke you or someone else to answer

 

[HIM]

OK, so in truth you take offence at my stating people who keep stressing you must obey the TC only have a shallow understanding of what that entails.

No not at all. The issue is it is a personal attack and disrespectful which is against the forum rules.

As was noted the issue is disrespectful comments like this one

, I will happily say you do not have or act on a shallow understanding of the TC. Is that fair?

And this one

those who keep stating ''you must obey the TC'' only have a very shallow understanding

And this one

It adds more to the conversation than you are able to understand

And this one

Is it not a problem, if someone with only a shallow understanding

And this one

people who much stress you must obey the TC only have a shallow understanding

And this one

I haven't come across any who would. So, do they only have a shallow understanding of what obedience to those commands entails, or, do they not care about their childrens eternity, or, are they simply preaching a message of wilfull hypocrisy?

You are a Christian and yet you continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site. Your word doesn’t mean anything?

This will be the last post on this. I pray you see this time

However, you cannot actually address the subject when given the opportunity to do so, only attack me personally.

The subject is the disrespect for others like noted above.

 

[simplefaith]

No not at all. The issue is it is a personal attack and disrespectful which is against the forum rules.

As was noted the issue is disrespectful comments like this one


And this one

And this one

And this one

And this one

And this one


You are a Christian and yet you continue to insult and disrespect people who you disagree with when you agreed not to when you join the site. Your word doesn’t mean anything?

This will be the last post on this. I pray you see this time



The subject is the disrespect for others like noted above.

Spiritual truth should never offend. As you are obviously not interested in trying to refute what I wrote that caused offence to you, only criticise me personally, I will explain it to you.



Under the core terms of the NC, applicable law is written in the minds of believers and placed on their hearts by God himself.



‘’I will write my laws in their minds

And place them on their hearts’’



What does it mean in a practical sense to have applicable law written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers? It means simply in a believers mind they must know how God wants them to live. They must know in their mind what has been placed there. They instinctively know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, lie, take God’s name in vain etc. And, the law being in their heart means, in their heart(the flesh is another matter) they do not want to do these things. That’s one of the two core components on which the NC stands!



So, it would be an absolute waste of time to tell any believer, they must obey specific laws, such as the TC, for any applicable law is within them, it is in their most inward parts. Just as it would be pointless to tell me I should follow my twelve times tables!

So why do people keep telling others they must obey the TC for example? They are sadly looking to an external law written in ink, they are not relying on the law within. It is no longer an external law written in ink for the believer(2Cor3:3) And according to Paul a person can show the requirements of the law are in their hearts, if they have never known of biblical law!

So now, to address the point that upsets you. An internal law, in a person’s most inward parts, will always convict of transgression/what is entailed in obedience to it, to a far, far greater degree than any law written in ink will. That should be obvious.

Hence, I went to a church once to please a friend. They relentlessly stressed ‘’you must obey the TC.’’ And yet, I was literally shocked and stunned to witness the degree of flagrant breaking of those laws in that church. People were laughing and joking whilst they transgressed them, apparently unaware they were doing so. It is a different world to the Christianity I know. I have never witnessed that before in any other church I have been to.

And so, those who look to an external law written in ink, have only a shallow understanding of what is entailed in obedience to such laws.

As I said to someone else. The problem mainly comes, when people with such a shallow understanding of what is entailed in obeying the TC, tell those who do not have a shallow understanding they must obey the TC to enter heaven. Its good to care about the second greatest commandment, and to vehemently oppose people insisting of others what they do not insist of themselves. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who acted that way.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No one here believes that I am aware of. @SabbathBlessings do you believe that? @BobRyan do you?

No, I don’t believe this. The poster would have no way of knowing everything someone believes and it was a general statement- “anyone who teaches the Ten” so that would include Jesus and the apostles. Obviously someone is confused

Hey there Bob. I was really hoping for a response to this.


Really?

I do and you and I are in the same court more or less. The fact that the new moon is mentioned is the issue. So by all appearances to the surface reader the new Moon festivals will be kept also in the new earth and heaven that are made by our Lord.

If new moon is a bad translation how do you prove that it is and is suppose to be translated just month? Not sure I seen a good explanation of this here in this thread. But then I only scanned the thread.
It is a translation issue. And we can lay it out here. I only ask to make sure it is covered and to provoke you or someone else to answer

Friend- a New Moon just means New Month and the word festivals is no where near this verse. We know there won’t be any sacrificial festivals in heaven because the Bible made that clear with the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ- the Perfect Lamb who can take away the sins of the world. This scriptures indicates the weekly cycle continues in heaven as it shows man will also work in heaven/new earth tending to vineyards and building houses but on the Sabbath His saints will gather before Him to worship. Isa 66:23 We can only worship Him in spirit on the Sabbath now I can’t imagine what that will be like to be in His presence- just like Adam and Eve before they disobeyed and sinned which separated them and us from God Isa 59:2. The New Moon means every New Month His saints will gather before Him to worship. Although not stated in scripture I believe it’s possible a month will be 28 days which would make every New Moon a Sabbath. Regardless, if we are blessed to make it to live with Jesus for all eternity- no one will be complaining.

 

[simplefaith]

No, I don’t believe this. The poster would have no way of knowing everything someone believes and it was a general statement- “anyone who teaches the Ten” so that would include Jesus and the apostles. Obviously someone is confused

You wrote we are saved from our sins, not in our sins previously. It appears from the above you would believe it is sin not to obey Jesus commands in the gospels alongside the TC. I will give you a partial list of what is involved in obeying the TC, Christ's commands and the second greatest commandment. I have not come accross anyone who would claim to even try and obey them all. Which would mean they are all guilty of sin. May you reflect also on them:


Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Have you ever looked at anyone with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You wrote we are saved from our sins, not in our sins previously. It appears from the above you would believe it is sin not to obey Jesus commands in the gospels alongside the TC. I will give you a partial list of what is involved in obeying the TC, Christ's commands and the second greatest commandment. I have not come accross anyone who would claim to even try and obey them all. Which would mean they are all guilty of sin. May you reflect also on them:


Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Have you ever looked at anyone with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

Sin according to the Bible is breaking the Ten Commandments 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 breaking or teaching others to break the least of these commandments one would be of fear of sin and judgement Mat 5:19-30. The commanemtns Jesus quoted from was the Ten Commanemnts and gave two as an example right from the Ten and explained what it meant to keep them which is greater than what was stated. He relates anger to murder and lust in the heart to adultery. Jesus wants us changes from the inside out, and if He changes our feelings of anger and contempt towards our neighbor - thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. He gave us two as an example, but if we are walking in His Spirit- we would be keeping all of the Ten Commandments because Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments which obviously includes the Sabbath commandment also written by the finger of God that came in the same unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exodus 20 and breaking one commandment we break them all James 2:10-12.

We are not saved in sin- we are saved from sin. If Jesus resides in us and we have a right relationship with Him we would leaving the old man at the Cross and walking in newness and His righteousness. All of God’s commandments are righteous Psa 119:172 kept by Jesus as our example to follow 1 John 2:6. Not to say if one slips and falls we don’t have an Advocate in Jesus that if we confess He is faithful and just to forgive. 1 John 1:9 All the Ten Commandments do is show us our sins, like a mirror Romans 3:20 James 1:22-25 so we are not depending on our version of righteousness, but on God’s Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142

 

[simplefaith]

Sin according to the Bible is breaking the Ten Commandments 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 breaking or teaching others to break the least of these commandments one would be of fear of sin and judgement Mat 5:19-30. The commanemtns Jesus quoted from was the Ten Commanemnts and gave two as an example right from the Ten and explained what it meant to keep them which is greater than what was stated. He relates anger to murder and lust in the heart to adultery. Jesus wants us changes from the inside out, and if He changes our feelings of anger and contempt towards our neighbor - thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. He gave us two as an example, but if we are walking in His Spirit- we would be keeping all of the Ten Commandments because Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments which obviously includes the Sabbath commandment also written by the finger of God that came in a unit of Ten Deut 4:13 and breaking one commandment we break them all James 2:10-12.

We are not saved in sin- we are saved from sin. If Jesus resides in us and we have a right relationship with Him we would leaving the old man at the Cross and walking in newness and His righteousness. All of God’s commandments are righteous Psa 119:172 kept by Jesus as our example to follow 1 John 2:6. Not to say if one slips and falls we don’t have an Advocate in Jesus that if we confess He is faithful and just to forgive. 1 John 1:9 All the Ten Commandments do is show us our sins, like a mirror Romans 3:20 James 1:22-25 so we are not depending on our version of righteousness, but on God’s Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142

Is it sin to transgress Jesus commands in the gospels?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is it sin to transgress Jesus commands in the gospels?

Sin is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and anything not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23

 

[simplefaith]

Sin is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and anything not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23

So, do you claim to fully obey that list I placed before you? If you do not, you commit sin don't you

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, do you claim to fully obey that list I placed before you? If you do not, you commit sin don't you

Only God knows what we do and don’t do, and it’s not according to you but God’s Word. What I do or don’t do is between me and God, same applies to you and everyone. We are not judged on a sliding scale or based on what others do or don’t do so it’s best to worry about our own actions as we each have to stand before Jesus one day soon, as there is nothing we can hide from Him Ecc 12:13-14. We can show each other the scriptures, but leave the judging to God. It way above our pay grade.