Do you believe in pre-Fall immortality?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Never thought of it

  • what are you talking about?


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Susan

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I'm a Christian and a young-earth creationist.
My one question about young-earth that says there was no physical death before the Fall and that all pre-Fall life was basically immortal is this:
Why did God give His reason for Adam and Eve's removal from the Garden of Eden as such: that they would not eat of the tree of everlasting life and live forever?
From the context it seems that Adam, Eve, and every animal present would have had to have been eating of the tree of everlasting life (which it nowhere says they were) to be immortal pre-Fall.
I'm no scientist, just someone with a question. :)
 

Late_Cretaceous

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What we know as life cannot exist without death. Life as we know is is a cycle - most religions recognize this judaism, islam and christianity are the only ones that reject this concept. Immortalality is a form of existance for which we have no frame of reference, no knowledge, and no evidence.
 
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A Sheep

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The bible says that Adam and Eve had the trees and bushes to eat from and animals would have eaten the grass/fruits/vegetables on/near the ground.

So they COULD have live forever in their present bodies if they never ate from the tree of knowledge, but they fell for satans lie when he said "You will not live die when you eat from the tree of knowledge, god never told you that, you become gods".

So Adam and Eve knew that they were going to live forever on earth, because God told them that they would die if the had of the tree of knowledge, in other words, if they never ate from the tree of knowledge they would have lived forever but they were greedy and wanted to be gods. That's why we are in this mess right now. They never believed God. 

So no we have to get new bodies when we get to heaven because these are ragged and they waste away.

 

 

I edited it because I got somethings mixed-up, but I fixed it.
 
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A Sheep

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Late_Cretaceous

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I am a christian, therefore THAT WAS A CHRISTIAN OPINION!!!!!!!!
I was educated in a catholic school, we took "religion class" every year for 12 years. We were taught that the stories in genesis were MYTHS. That does not mean that they were without meaning, however.
 
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Annabel Lee

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Originally posted by Susan
I was not asking for that. I want Christian opinions.
'
That was rude, Susan.
Okay..you want Christian opinions BUT you put this poll in Apologetics? Then, on top of it all, you now qualify it all by saying you just want Creationists to answer.
You might want to start a new poll.
 
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alexgb00

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Originally posted by Late_Cretaceous
What we know as life cannot exist without death. Life as we know is is a cycle - most religions recognize this judaism, islam and christianity are the only ones that reject this concept. Immortalality is a form of existance for which we have no frame of reference, no knowledge, and no evidence.

Man, don't take offense, but that's just the way it is now. It's a pretty closed-minded idea that since today people die, then it was always like this.

As far as the "cycle" idea, i can't accept that for several reasons. Scripture says, in Job that "if a man dies, shall he live again?" Another reason is that there are more people now than there were originally. I don't think, unless some old souls are controlling a million bodies each :), that this could happen.

Well, the Bible gives evidence for immortality.

OK, God bless you all! 

Alex
 
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alexgb00

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Originally posted by Mallory Knox
Then take your poll to a Christians-only area.

There's no safe place here from atheists. :rolleyes:

By the way, Late_Cretaceous, it's very sad that you were told that Genesis was myth. It's hard to believe that a Catholic school would teach that. I feel for you, man.

 :sigh:

God bless!
 
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seebs

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I don't think "cycle" implies that people come back... but your body contains molecules that were once part of someone else's body, and someone else's before that... when we return to dust, the dust gets used to make plants, which are eaten... it's a cycle.
 
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alexgb00

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Hello brothers and sisters in Christ!

OK, here is my humble opinion: There WAS death before the Great Flood, but only after the fall. It is even recorded in the Scriptures.

Cain killed Abel.

The animals before the fall most likely ate only plants, and plants were much more plentiful and robust. After the fall, i think animals began to compete for food, but still ate the available plants. So they must have killed each other in small numbers.

The people before the Flood were really evil, remember? So there might have been murderers among them, too.

And that's my theory. It could be wrong, so if you differ, go ahead and say something!

 :yum:
 
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alexgb00

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Originally posted by seebs
I don't think "cycle" implies that people come back... but your body contains molecules that were once part of someone else's body, and someone else's before that... when we return to dust, the dust gets used to make plants, which are eaten... it's a cycle.

Happy birthday, Seebs! You're still in your prime.

Oh, that kind of cycle makes sense, and it's natural even without death. People would eat plants, then go to the bathroom (if there was one in Eden) and that would be fertilizer for more plants.

See, i thought that guy meant a "soul" cycle, like the Buddists believe exists. You're born a man, die, then turn into a jackal, die, then turn into a puddle. And so on.

OK, talk to you guys later.

Alex
 
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Well, here's my two cent's worth. I am also a Christian and a young-earth creationist.

Originally posted by Susan
I'm a Christian and a young-earth creationist.
My one question about young-earth that says there was no physical death before the Fall and that all pre-Fall life was basically immortal is this:
Why did God give His reason for Adam and Eve's removal from the Garden of Eden as such: that they would not eat of the tree of everlasting life and live forever?
From the context it seems that Adam, Eve, and every animal present would have had to have been eating of the tree of everlasting life (which it nowhere says they were) to be immortal pre-Fall.
I'm no scientist, just someone with a question. :)

No, there wasn't any death before the fall of Adam and Eve. I don't believe before the flood that Adam, Eve and the animals killed each other for food. My reason for this is, Gen. 1: 29-30.  It's says "...I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding see, to you it shall be for food" and quote verse 30- " And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepth upon the earth, wherein there is breath of life, I have given every green herb for food."

As I believe, I take the bible literally, it plainly says right here that God gave both Man and Beast the herb for food. So before the fall there was no need of killing beast for food.

After the fall though, its says Gen. 3:17-20 "...cursed is the ground for thy sake, in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of they life. 18. Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken,for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The above passage answers two questions. 1# Before the Fall, there was no need to kill beast because the earth gave all the food needed. After the Fall, because of man God cursed the whole earth. So now there wasn't enough food to eat, so Man and Beast both had to kill for food. 2# Man isn't immortal, because we were created by God, and that is the reason we had to be taken from the Garden, because God didn't want us to eat of the Tree of Life. Because if we did we would live forever. But in the sense that our Body is returned to the earth and after a while our body returns to the natural state in which we were made, dust, I would say no we are not immortal but our body after it returns to the dust, does recycle. To become future dirt and minerals for other plant's and things to go.

This is a hard question to answer, and I know this doesn't answer all the question, but I really am not sure how to answer. So I hope some else can help you more.

Your brother in Christ,

Anthony

 


 

 

 :)
 
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Late_Cretaceous

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Alex, I was speaking strictly of organic life, and the cycle of materials as well as the infusion of solar energy. That particular view is narrow minded since it focuses only on what we define as life, and the evidence for it.
As far as re-incarnation, I have always found that idea silly.
 
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