144 Thousand in Revelations 7

[Kenneth Heck]

No scripture tells you there will be no objects in space orbiting the earth at that time. There is no reason to believe we will completely lose all of our technological progress and revert back to the time of the Garden of Eden. The new heavens and new earth are spiritual, not physical - they combine with the matter of the planet in the same way that the New Jerusalem does. The old heavens and old earth flee away because they are spiritual in nature, but the planet remains to receive the new earth and new heavens.

Ezekiel doesn't agree with Revelation. The size of the city in Revelation could have been corrupted - since Revelation is the only book in the bible with a specific warning against adding to or subtracting from the book (Rev22:18-19). Is there anything on this planet that man has touched which hasn't eventually resulted in some degree of corruption, needing to be corrected?

 

[SANTOSO]

Here is an explanation that I hope helps!

The hundred forty and four thousand are not being counted in Revelation 7:3-8, they are being sealed for a specific tribe of Israel (12 tribes of Israel), where all the cities for each tribe of Israel dwells within New Jerusalem, Revelation 21:10-27.

The hundred forty and four thousand that are being sealed in Revelation 7:3-8, are sealed based on Jesus’s promise in Revelation 3:12, and other scriptures.

Revelation 3:12, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation. 21:23-24, “and the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.” “and the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it…”

The above scriptures says the nations of them that are saved. These are the multitude out of every nation, kindreds, people, and tongue, kindred, that stood before the Lamb clothes in white robes. The multitude that John was seeing in Revelation 7:9, included those that John saw being sealed who were on the earth during God’s wrath, at the sixth seal being opened, Revelation 6:12. God is sealing His servants in their foreheads. The seal in the foreheads represents the name of the city in New Jerusalem, for each tribe of the Children of Israel, which all 12 cities measured 12,000 furlongs each, Revelation 21:16, (not counting).

Important to note that God is making a point to seal his servants during the time of His Wrath upon the earth during the tribulation period, being that there are those of his servants who are still alive, but will die during the tribulations. God does not want His wrath to be against His people, Revelation 9:4, so He seals them for this purpose: so that the angels who are executing His wrath will know who they are, therefore they will not be touched. The suffering that they will receive is from the anti-christ, but not from God's wrath. So again, this seal is not counting, but is the name written on them for the name of the city of God, Revelation 3:12.

Before the angel hurt the trees, sea, and earth, Revelation 7:3 these who are being sealed were spoken about in Revelation 6:9, during the fifth seal, where other of God’s servants had been killed. White robes had been given to them also, Revelation 6:11, and they were told to rest a little season until their fellow-servants and their brothers, should be killed as they were, be fulfilled. So those servants of God being sealed in Revelation 7 would be killed during the tribulation, but they were sealed beforehand. These are those who overcome the tribulation, where God writes upon them the name of the City of God, which is New Jerusalem (measures 144,000 cubits), Revelation 3:12.

Another example of the servants of God that were sealed in Revelation 7:3, is during the Fifth trumpet, where God tells the angel to not hurt the grass or any green thing, and to only hurt those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads, Revelation 9:4. Those who God did not want the angle to hurt in Revelation 9:4, are the same saints in Revelation 7:4-8 who have been sealed. Again to help people see that this is not counting in Revelation 7:4-8, but an actual seal in the foreheads of God’s servants, we have to look at what Jesus said in Revelation 3:12 again. And in Revelation 3:5, Jesus makes it clear that those who overcome will received white raiment (robes), and He will not blot their names out of the book of life.

One of the Elders (I believe these are those resurrected from Abraham’s Bosom when Jesus ascended, and these Elders are already in Heaven) made a point of pointing out those who come through great tribulation and had washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, Revelation 7:13. These that came out of the tribulation serve God day and night in the Temple, Revelation 7:15-17, In addition to the great multitude that John saw, Revelation 7:9.

Note: The opening of the first seal by the Lamb to the sixth seal, encompasses the beginning of God’s wrath to the end where God will wipe away all tears. At the sixth seal you see the Lamb and God in the Temple, and you see the angels around the throne, there is no more hunger, no more thirst…," Revelation 7:16-17.

The seals, trumpets, and vials which are the wrath of God coming from heaven upon the earth, are all describing various views of the same tribulation event from beginning to end. What’s happening is each one is giving different accounts of events for the same period.

The Hundred Forty and Four Thousand standing on Mount Sion with the Lamb, has the Lamb’s Father’s name written on their foreheads, Revelation 14:1. These are the same sealed in Revelation 7:3-8, and spoken about in Revelation 3:12.

The 144,000 standing on Mount Zion, Revelation 14:4 are called virgins.

“For they are virgins” does not mean men who never had a relationship with a woman. It means those who are saints in Christ, and who are to be married to the Lamb:

2 Corinthians 11:2, for I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Matthew 25:1, then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Matthew 25:6, and at midnight there was a cry made, behold, the bridegroom cometh; go you out to meet him.

Matthew 25:7, then all those virgins arose, and. Trimmed their lamps.

Matthew 25:11, and afterwards came also the other virgins, saying, lord, lord, open to us.

Revelation 19:7, let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready

Revelation 21:2, And I john saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Dear one,

Would you consider Psalms 45:6-17 have relevance to what God has revealed in the book of Revelation?

consider this:
“Kings’ daughters are among Your honorable women; At Your right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Would you consider the queen in gold of Ophir as the bride of Christ?

Likewise, what would you consider, that we heard:
“The royal daughter is all glorious within the palace; Her clothing is woven with gold. She shall be brought to the King in robes of many colors; The virgins, her companions who follow her, shall be brought to You.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Who would you consider the royal daughter and her virgin companions ? Would you consider the royal daughter as the bride of Christ? Would you consider her virgin companions as 144000 ?

I hope you can help me with this. May be you can share more what you perceive that has been said in the book of revelation and other scripture references that you may have. Thanks.

 

[biblelesson]

No scripture tells you there will be no objects in space orbiting the earth at that time. There is no reason to believe we will completely lose all of our technological progress and revert back to the time of the Garden of Eden. The new heavens and new earth are spiritual, not physical - they combine with the matter of the planet in the same way that the New Jerusalem does. The old heavens and old earth flee away because they are spiritual in nature, but the planet remains to receive the new earth and new heavens.

Ezekiel doesn't agree with Revelation. The size of the city in Revelation could have been corrupted - since Revelation is the only book in the bible with a specific warning against adding to or subtracting from the book (Rev22:18-19). Is there anything on this planet that man has touched which hasn't eventually resulted in some degree of corruption, needing to be corrected?

I thought you said satellites orbiting the earth, which are man made. I didn't know you meant the planets in the heaven orbiting other planets.

However, here is a good site that breaks down the calculations for the Temple in Ezekiel and New Jerusalem. Thought it might interest you: Ezekiel's City: Calculating the Earth's Circumference

 

[biblelesson]

That's kind of odd, to say that we are the bride of a physical city. The Bible tells us that we are the bride of Christ, not the bride of Jerusalem.

You can study other old testament scriptures that relate to the Messiah, which gives more of a well rounded description of who Christ is, to include the new testiment scriptures.

The bride of Christ is Israel, is Jerusalem, which have been grafted into the original branch. By believing on Christ, the Gentile saints are grafted into the original branch, that is Israel, Romans 11:15, and Israel is grafted back in because they were broken off due to unbelief, Romans 11:20, and Romans 11:23. So the Jews and Gentiles in Christ are the saints, are the church, are the bride of Christ, and are of the seed of Abraham, which makes them Israel, which makes them of Jerusalem. The gospel of Christ was preached to both Jew and Gentile. Peter went to the Jews to preach the gospel, and Paul went to the Gentiles to preach the gospel, Galatians 2:7-8.

The promise was given to Abraham seed, which that promise was not given to all of Israel, but only one seed, Christ, Galatians 3:16. God made this promise before the law was put in place for all of Israel, which could not disannul (cancel) the original promise, Galatians 3:17. The covenant was made in affect then with Abraham, before the law, for the purpose of believing unto faith in Christ, and not works.

I hope you can see why now the bride of Christ is the church that have been grafted into Abraham seed, into Israel, and are of Jerusalem. It's good to know the prophecies of Jesus. Here is reference material that might assist:

https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/swissco...4/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

 

[biblelesson]

Dear one,

Would you consider Psalms 45:6-17 have relevance to what God has revealed in the book of Revelation?

consider this:
“Kings’ daughters are among Your honorable women; At Your right hand stands the queen in gold from Ophir.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Would you consider the queen in gold of Ophir as the bride of Christ?

As Psalms 45 is considered a Messianic Psalm, and it's a love song, maybe for a wedding, then the queen in gold from Ophir would very wall be bride of Christ. The gold of Ophir was known for its purity, thus pointing to the purity of the saints in Christ.

Likewise, what would you consider, that we heard:
“The royal daughter is all glorious within the palace; Her clothing is woven with gold. She shall be brought to the King in robes of many colors; The virgins, her companions who follow her, shall be brought to You.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭45:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Who would you consider the royal daughter and her virgin companions ? Would you consider the royal daughter as the bride of Christ? Would you consider her virgin companions as 144000 ?

I hope you can help me with this. May be you can share more what you perceive that has been said in the book of revelation and other scripture references that you may have. Thanks.

I would consider the royal daughters and her virgins companions both are the same: the saints, the church, and the bride of Christ who are chaste virgins, 2 Corinthians 11:2. They are the 144000 who are also called virgins, Revelation 14:1. The virgins companies in Psalms 45:13-14, can be seen the same as the 144000 who are brought into the King's palace, Psalms 45:15, which relates also to Revelation 19:7, where the wife has made herself ready for the marriage of the Lamb. Of course the wife who has made herself ready is pure as the Gold of Ophir, and a chase virgin. This also points to the the scriptures in Matthew 25:1, the parable about the Kingdom of Heaven, where the 10 Virgins went forth to meet the bridegroom.

The Song of Solomon is a love songs describing Christ and the church; it shows the love the virgins (church) have for Christ, Song of Solomon 1:3. But read Song of Solomon 1:1-17, or the entire Song of Solomon. This seems to give a greater view of the love the bride has for Christ, and the love Christ has for the bride.

But there is so much more in the bible that describes the love Christ has for his bride. I need more study on this. Thanks for the subject.

 

[SANTOSO]

As Psalm 45 is considered a Messianic Psalm, and it's a love song, maybe for a wedding, then the queen in gold from Ophir would very wall be bride of Christ. The gold of Ophir was known for its purity, thus pointing to the purity of the saints in Christ.




I would consider the royal daughters and her virgins companions both are the same: the saints, the church, and the bride of Christ who are chaste virgins, 2 Corinthians 11:2. They are the 144000 who are also called virgins, Revelations 14:1. The virgins companies in Psalm 45:13-14, can be seen the same as the 144000 who are brought into the King's palace, Psalm 45:15, which relates to also to Revelation 19:7, where the wife has made herself ready for the marriage of the Lamb. Of course the wife who has made herself ready is pure as the Gold of Ophir, and a chase virgin. This also points to the the scriptures in Matthew 25:1, the parable about the Kingdom of Heaven, where the 10 Virgins went forth to meet the bridegroom.

The Song of Solomon is a love songs describing Christ and the church; it shows the love the virgins (church) have for Christ, Song of Solomon 1:3. But read Song of Solomon 1:1-17, or the entire Song of Solomon. This seems to give a greater view of the love the bride has for Christ, and the love Christ has for the bride.

But there is so much more in the bible that describes the love Christ has for his bride. I need more study on this. Thanks for the subject.

Thank you for sharing your view. I appreciate it.

 

[biblelesson]

Thank you for sharing your view. I appreciate it.

Your welcome! As I said, there are many scriptures that point to Christ's love for the church: from the old testament to the new testament, and the love the church has for Christ.

I'm saying this because I want to say that the Song of Solomon, which is an analogy of Christ’s love for His bride, gives a lot of detail about the love relationship, which can be difficult to switch our minds on Christ, however, it also teaches us about the type of love a man and woman should have in a marriage.

The most desirable, intimate, and precious love between a man and women could be expressed at the time of Solomon probably 100 times greater than the love in marriages today. Whereas most of today's marriage is no where like what the Song of Solomon describes. You might have the desire, but the true love wains. And selfishness today is 100 times greater in marriages than it was then. Even with Solomon's many wives, they probably did not suffer a lack of love because he was required to follow the Mosaic law which dictated his love for them. Where he messed up was in worshiping the gods of his wives.

So, with the way we think about the "other person" in our life today, the Song of Solomon can be a little hard to digest. But putting aside what today's culture cannot do and has not done for a very long time, getting back to the pureness of love in a relationship, which is what God intended, and how a groom sees his bride and vise verse, we can see that that "pure love" can be attributed to the pure love Christ has for his bride. It's just that lovely! In Ephesians 5:25-33, Apostle Paul talks about how husbands should be toward their wives, in relation to how Jesus loves the church. Ephesians 5:25 states, "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her."

A husband and wife today can take a lesson (marriage counseling) from the Song of Solomon because it is clear that the Song of Solomon shows an intense, yet pure love between a bride and groom, between lovers, and that's the pure love Christ has for the 144000, the church, the bride!

 

[SANTOSO]

Your welcome! As I said, there are many scriptures that point to Christ's love for the church: from the old testament to the new testament, and the love the church has for Christ.

I'm saying this because I want to say that the Song of Solomon, which is an analogy of Christ’s love for His bride, gives a lot of detail about the love relationship, which can be difficult to switch our minds on Christ, however, it also teaches us about the type of love a man and woman should have in a marriage.

The most desirable, intimate, and precious love between a man and women could be expressed at the time of Solomon probably 100 times greater than the love in marriages today. Whereas most of today's marriage is no where like what the Song of Solomon describes. You might have the desire, but the true love wains. And selfishness today is 100 times greater in marriages than it was then. Even with Solomon's many wives, they probably did not suffer a lack of love because he was required to follow the Mosaic law which dictated his love for them. Where he messed up was in worshiping the gods of his wives.

So, with the way we think about the "other person" in our life today, the Song of Solomon can be a little hard to digest. But putting aside what today's culture cannot do and has not done for a very long time, getting back to the pureness of love in a relationship, which is what God intended, and how a groom sees his bride and vise verse, we can see that that "pure love" can be attributed to the pure love Christ has for his bride. It's just that lovely! In Ephesians 5:25-33, Apostle Paul talks about how husbands should be toward their wives, in relation to how Jesus loves the church. Ephesians 5:25 states, "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her."

A husband and wife today can take a lesson (marriage counseling) from the Song of Solomon because it is clear that the Song of Solomon shows an intense, yet pure love between a bride and groom, between lovers, and that's the pure love Christ has for the 144000, the church, the bride!

Thank you for mentioning the Song of Solomon. It has been long time that I read the book. May be this is the push to consider and meditate well on Song of Solomon.
May God grant me the wisdom and understanding to know what has been written and relevancy on things to come.

 

[Kenneth Heck]

Another seeming corruption: the 12,000 of Dan has been replaced by the 12,000 of Manasseh, even though Eze 48:32 specifically gives Dan one gate, and also one by implication in Rev 21:12. Who will go through the gate for Dan? The gate for Dan is for Danites.

For resolving legal issues, everyone in the Kingdom of God on earth is identified with one of the 12 tribes. There are 12 thrones for the apostles, and Christ's throne is above them all for final judgement. Manasseh is a half-tribe of Joseph, who is already mentioned in 7:8. It is obvious that a corruption in the text has transpired (after being received by John from Christ). This one could be readily corrected.

 

[Freedm]

You can study other old testament scriptures that relate to the Messiah, which gives more of a well rounded description of who Christ is, to include the new testiment scriptures.

The bride of Christ is Israel, is Jerusalem, which have been grafted into the original branch. By believing on Christ, the Gentile saints are grafted into the original branch, that is Israel, Romans 11:15, and Israel is grafted back in because they were broken off due to unbelief, Romans 11:20, and Romans 11:23. So the Jews and Gentiles in Christ are the saints, are the church, are the bride of Christ, and are of the seed of Abraham, which makes them Israel, which makes them of Jerusalem. The gospel of Christ was preached to both Jew and Gentile. Peter went to the Jews to preach the gospel, and Paul went to the Gentiles to preach the gospel, Galatians 2:7-8.

The promise was given to Abraham seed, which that promise was not given to all of Israel, but only one seed, Christ, Galatians 3:16. God made this promise before the law was put in place for all of Israel, which could not disannul (cancel) the original promise, Galatians 3:17. The covenant was made in affect then with Abraham, before the law, for the purpose of believing unto faith in Christ, and not works.

I hope you can see why now the bride of Christ is the church that have been grafted into Abraham seed, into Israel, and are of Jerusalem. It's good to know the prophecies of Jesus. Here is reference material that might assist:

https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/swissco...4/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

Yes, we are Israel, on that we agree, but we are not the bride of a physical city. That's absurd. We are the bride of Christ.

Israel is a spiritual concept. It is the name of the kingdom of God, but God's kingdom is not physical and does not require a physical city. The kingdom of God is spiritual.

 

[biblelesson]

Yes, we are Israel, on that we agree, but we are not the bride of a physical city. That's absurd. We are the bride of Christ.

Israel is a spiritual concept. It is the name of the kingdom of God, but God's kingdom is not physical and does not require a physical city. The kingdom of God is spiritual.

I don't know what you mean. Can you explain spiritual how, and why not physical if we have been provided an enormous amount of description relating to New Jerusalem.

However, God lives in a spiritual place for those of spiritual bodies, in heaven. A real place that we cannot see.

So, I do understand that to say physical in the sense of fleshly bodies is not correct, but in the sense of spiritual bodies - to live in a real place for those who have been made spiritual is correct.

So is that what you mean, or is it something else? And where will the saints live?

 

[Freedm]

I don't know what you mean. Can you explain spiritual how, and why not physical if we have been provided an enormous amount of description relating to New Jerusalem.

However, God lives in a spiritual place for those of spiritual bodies, in heaven. A real place that we cannot see.

So, I do understand that to say physical in the sense of fleshly bodies is not correct, but in the sense of spiritual bodies - to live in a real place for those who have been made spiritual is correct.

So is that what you mean, or is it something else? And where will the saints live?

What I mean is that our kingdom is not a kingdom with borders and border guards. We are not an army with tanks and guns. Our king does not appear on the evening news taking questions from reporters and we don't need a physical temple building in which to meet with God.

Jesus said in John 18:36 “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

Luke said in Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

The original Israel was a physical type of a better kingdom to come. The original kingdom of Israel was all in the physical. Lived in physical cities, fought physical battles and communed with God in a physical temple building. Today our kingdom is not limited to a geographic location. We fight spiritual battles, not physical, and God lives in our hearts, not in a building. Every aspect of the original Israel has been perfected in the new and is immune to corruption and failure. There's no way God would ever plan for his kingdom to go back to the old corruptible physical world because the new spiritual kingdom is so much better.

Comparing the original Israel with the new Israel is kind of like comparing the old Roman Empire with Star Trek's federation of planets. Or comparing a home made skateboard with a Tesla. Or comparing the Wright brothers first airplane with an F22 Raptor. Junk compared to treasure. Garbage compared to gold.

We're never going back to a physical city. The new Jerusalem described in Revelation is a symbol of the new and improved kingdom which lives within us.

 

[biblelesson]

Another seeming corruption: the 12,000 of Dan has been replaced by the 12,000 of Manasseh, even though Eze 48:32 specifically gives Dan one gate, and also one by implication in Rev 21:12. Who will go through the gate for Dan? The gate for Dan is for Danites.

For resolving legal issues, everyone in the Kingdom of God on earth is identified with one of the 12 tribes. There are 12 thrones for the apostles, and Christ's throne is above them all for final judgement. Manasseh is a half-tribe of Joseph, who is already mentioned in 7:8. It is obvious that a corruption in the text has transpired (after being received by John from Christ). This one could be readily corrected.

Wow, this is a very good question! However I would not say there is a corruption in the text. There has to be a biblical reason.

What I do know is that Dan did not have an inheritance, Judges 18:1, and they sought an inheritance, and was involved in idolatry, Judges 18:1-31, and Judges Judges 18:30. 1 Peter 1:4 might offer an explanation: "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you. This could be why at least Dan was not listed with those being sealed in Revelation 7.

So consider Ephraim: They were also involved in idolatry, Hosea 4:17, and made a covenant with the Assyrians (God's enemy) Hosea 12:1.

Dan as you mentioned is not removed from the gates in Ezekiel, Ezekiel 48:32, but is removed from Revelation 7. The gates listed in Ezekiel are for the original 12 tribes of Israel, Ezekiel 48:31-34. Although Joseph is listed, his portion was split between his two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim, Joshua 14:4, and in Ezekiel 47:13, God says Joseph shall have two portions. But their portions is listed under their father's name, Joseph.

So it looks like due to Dan's sin he was removed as a nation, and his name was replaced by Manasseh, Revelation 7:6. Ephraim also sinned, and made a covenant with God's enemy, the Assyrians, Hosea 4:17, and Hosea 8:9, so don't know if this is the reason why Ephraim's name was not used to replace Dan's name instead of Manasseh. However, his father's name Joseph is listed. Joseph represents Manasseh and Ephraim, yet Manasseh's name replaced Dan's name, to make up the 12 tribes.

I hope I have given some history that relates to maybe why Dan's name was removed. But, there is much more study and research that can be done on this subject.

 

[biblelesson]

What I mean is that our kingdom is not a kingdom with borders and border guards. We are not an army with tanks and guns. Our king does not appear on the evening news taking questions from reporters and we don't need a physical temple building in which to meet with God.

Jesus said in John 18:36 “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

Luke said in Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

The original Israel was a physical type of a better kingdom to come. The original kingdom of Israel was all in the physical. Lived in physical cities, fought physical battles and communed with God in a physical temple building. Today our kingdom is not limited to a geographic location. We fight spiritual battles, not physical, and God lives in our hearts, not in a building. Every aspect of the original Israel has been perfected in the new and is immune to corruption and failure. There's no way God would ever plan for his kingdom to go back to the old corruptible physical world because the new spiritual kingdom is so much better.

Comparing the original Israel with the new Israel is kind of like comparing the old Roman Empire with Star Trek's galactic empire. Or comparing a home made skateboard with a Tesla. Or comparing the Wright brothers first airplane with an F22 Raptor. Junk compared to treasure. Garbage compared to gold.

We're never going back to a physical city. The new Jerusalem described in Revelation is a symbol of the new and improved kingdom which lives within us.

Where will we live when we are changed to Spiritual bodies like Christ?

I think I know what you are referring to. It seems as though you are referring to where we are in Christ now, living today, being the temple of God, where God lives in our hearts now.

1) That's one issue where the Holy Spirit has been given to us now as the earnest of our inheritance, Ephesians 1:14, for assurance of salvation in Christ. Without this, we would not be considered the Church. So, we are the temple of God now as we are alive in the flesh.

I think you have completely focused on the requirements to be saved, for today, and are using that as an analogy to say that's how it will be when Christ returns, and has completely defocused on what comes after. What you are speaking of is what we go through now, not what we go through when we are resurrected and change.

Think about this: God, Jesus, the angels, live somewhere. They live in a heaven. God has a throne. Jesus has a throne. This is a real place. We are fleshly, and we live in a place made for fleshly beings, earth, and in houses. But there is a place for Spiritual beings also. Don't let your mind be limited to think beyond the flesh, because that's how you are thinking. You can't see that God has created flesh, and He is Spirit, who owns everything, heaven, the planets, the sun, the moon, the Cherub angels which he fly on, Jesus is sitting at His right hand (does Jesus sit down?). Just because God and Jesus is Spiritual does not mean there are no seats for them to sit on, they sit on Thrones. The angles have positions that they carry out, and we don't know where they live in God's heaven.

The heaven is described as a place where Satan was cast out from. It is a real place, he wasn't just flying in the air. Satan had a position in heaven.

So how is it we won't have a place to plant our Spiritual bodies? I'm not talking about a place made for a physical, fleshy body, I'm talking about a place made for a spiritual body. That's what New Jerusalem is for, a Spiritual City for Spiritual being, not physical beings. A place from Heaven that's Spiritual.

If you look at the description of the City/New Jerusalem agin, you will see that the city is for Spiritual beings, because there is no building that can ever be erected in that manor for someone that's a human being. It would be impossible for fleshly beings to live in a place like that. It's completely holy! And it demands holiness to live there!

So, I don't fully understand what you are saying?.

 

[Freedm]

Where will we live when we are changed to Spiritual bodies like Christ?

Heaven. I guess. Although some people believe you can come back and haunt your wife. The next time I die, I'll let you know for sure.

 

[biblelesson]

Heaven. I guess. Although some people believe you can come back and haunt your wife. The next time I die, I'll let you know for sure.

You don't believe in the resurrection! That's the issue!

 

[Freedm]

You don't believe in the resurrection! That's the issue!

Of course I believe in the resurrection. Why would you say such a thing?

 

[biblelesson]

Of course I believe in the resurrection. Why would you say such a thing?

Because you didn't have an answer when I asked you where will we live when we are changed, as if you don't know you will be resurrected.

You only said, "Heaven. I guess. Although some people believe you can come back and haunt your wife. The next time I die, I'll let you know for sure."

So if you die, you think you go to heaven, but you don't know, and it's possible you can come back as someone that can haunt someone, but you know nothing beyond that based on the what the bible has explained.

Either you are playing, and just having fun, and if not, then what resurrection do you believe in if it's not what's defined in the bible? Because, what you have explained so far is what we go through now as believers, and the way you explain it is as if you don't know where you will be if and when the resurrection happens, although the bible clearly explained it.

Are you playing or what?

 

[Freedm]

Because you didn't have an answer when I asked you where will we live when we are changed, as if you don't know you will be resurrected.

You only said, "Heaven. I guess. Although some people believe you can come back and haunt your wife. The next time I die, I'll let you know for sure."

So if you die, you think you go to heaven, but you don't know, and it's possible you can come back as someone that can haunt someone, but you know nothing beyond that based on the what the bible has explained.

Either you are playing, and just having fun, and if not, then what resurrection do you believe in if it's not what's defined in the bible? Because, what you have explained so far is what we go through now as believers, and the way you explain it is as if you don't know where you will be if and when the resurrection happens, although the bible clearly explained it.

Are you playing or what?

Lol. I'd love to know how your mind works. You're literally saying that because I don't know where we go when we're resurrected, that therefore I must not believe in the resurrection. That makes absolutely no sense.

And no I don't actually think you can haunt someone. I just thought your question was funny so it deserved a funny answer.

 

[biblelesson]

Lol. I'd love to know how your mind works. You're literally saying that because I don't know where we go when we're resurrected, that therefore I must not believe in the resurrection. That makes absolutely no sense.

And no I don't actually think you can haunt someone. I just thought your question was funny so it deserved a funny answer.

You explained where we don’t go, but was not able to explain where we go after resurrection! You’re denying what’s being defined in clear detail in the Bible, but offer no real reason for the denial! So, anyone who does that basically don’t believe!

Revelation 22:6, "And he said unto me, these sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book."