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1 Timothy 4:3

Geralt

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cockroach, pig, mushroom..i doubt the context was all about a kitchen menu of pig and exotic recipes. you can prove just about everything using scripture by jumping around and pointing this and that, except ignoring the context.

funny though, Paul was actually talking about people like SDA's and yourself, will always have a reason telling people not to eat this and that and connect it with sin and salvation. and you just can't see yourself in the mirror.

Actually, it's not that ridiculous.
I've seen this verse used by druggies to justify what they do:
and that is just one example of how the verse can be a bused. Here you are abusing it as in eating pig meat is ok.
Remember this verse...one the OP quoted, and look closely at it:
Pay special attention to the "which God hath made to be received"
God did not make pig meat to be received, matter of fact he was very specific it is not to be received, and I can show you where but I doubt I need to.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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you can prove just about everything using scripture by jumping around and pointing this and that, except ignoring the context.
The context ?
All through God's Word, (context) no unclean meat was ever eaten by God's people. (oh, sorry --- forgot there was a time or two; as written in the Old Testament...... I don't think what happened to them is what you or anyone else wants to happen again to anyone)...
That's pretty good context.
 
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Geralt

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yup your context is your prejudice, that's why.

The context ?
All through God's Word, (context) no unclean meat was ever eaten by God's people. (oh, sorry --- forgot there was a time or two; as written in the Old Testament...... I don't think what happened to them is what you or anyone else wants to happen again to anyone)...
That's pretty good context.
 
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~Anastasia~

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so do you think Paul was saying that it is ok to do what God has revealed to be sin as long as their conscience is not bothered by it?

No.

What I am saying is that, even if a thing IS permissible, it would be sinful for someone who might wrongly think it was a sinful thing. The conscience can convict is even when the law does not.

If I thought it was sinful to wear a purple shirt, then even if God allowed people to wear purple shirts, it would be sinful FOR ME to do so in violation of my conscience.

I thought this would be understood, so I didn't paste a quote. 1 Cor 8 speaks of this, in regards to eating meat sacrificed to idols.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Did you consider JOHN 17 ?
Jesus prayer for you if you are one of Jesus' disciples (born again).
If not, don't bother to read it.
I am obviously missing your point.

You seem to questioning whether or not I am a Christian, but surely that is not what you are saying. So I must be misunderstanding you. I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying in that case.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I am obviously missing your point.

You seem to questioning whether or not I am a Christian, but surely that is not what you are saying. So I must be misunderstanding you. I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying in that case.
My entire hope and joy is that you are indeed a CHristian as I've said in the past weeks....
JOHN 17 has a message(Jesus Prayer for you) you seem to have missed which may make a tremendous difference in your daily life, Yhwh willing.
Few men on earth EVER read it.
and few ever believe it (even though it is God's Own Word, Perfectly).
(the point is, if you ask men who don't understand it to explain it,
they cannot)....
and even those who can explain it, cannot make it real to you - only Jesus can do that (or God, if you prefer (as ONE) ) ...
 
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Soyeong

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No.

What I am saying is that, even if a thing IS permissible, it would be sinful for someone who might wrongly think it was a sinful thing. The conscience can convict is even when the law does not.

If I thought it was sinful to wear a purple shirt, then even if God allowed people to wear purple shirts, it would be sinful FOR ME to do so in violation of my conscience.

I thought this would be understood, so I didn't paste a quote. 1 Cor 8 speaks of this, in regards to eating meat sacrificed to idols.

I agree it is a sin to violate your conscience, but abstaining from eating pork isn't a matter of conscience, but a matter of obedience. God's law clearly prohibits idolatry, so refraining from eating meat sacrificed to idols is likewise a matter of obedience rather than conscience, but God's law does not make it clear whether it counts as idolatry to eat meat when it is unknown whether it has been sacrificed to idols, so that is a matter of conscience.
 
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~Anastasia~

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My entire hope and joy is that you are indeed a CHristian as I've said in the past weeks....
JOHN 17 has a message(Jesus Prayer for you) you seem to have missed which may make a tremendous difference in your daily life, Yhwh willing.
Few men on earth EVER read it.
and few ever believe it (even though it is God's Own Word, Perfectly).
(the point is, if you ask men who don't understand it to explain it,
they cannot)....
and even those who can explain it, cannot make it real to you - only Jesus can do that (or God, if you prefer (as ONE) ) ...

I am a bit confused about your posts sometimes, but not about my faith.

I appreciate your concern. I really do. I just wonder sometimes what inspires it about me particularly.

Yes, I've read it. Many, many times. I absolutely love that prayer, and know it well. And it has deep meaning for me. You just seemed to pull it out in an odd context and didn't ask me to explain it.

This thread isn't about me anyway. I would submit, respectfully, that you really don't know my life and my history with God, which goes back to my early childhood and includes many profound and intimate times. But in GT (which I don't spend much time in), I give only short answers usually these days. I'm not interested in debate with anyone, and in fact it is one of my spiritual disciplines not to do so, but there are enough other good reasons for me to refrain usually.

Anyway, as I said, thank you for your concern. If you respond to everyone the same way, then good enough. If it is only me you reply to in this way (and that's all I've ever noticed, but I may be wrong), then I am still truly mystified at the reason you have such doubts. Perhaps I do a truly terrible job of making my points.

God be with you.
 
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lstnag2016

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If it is consecrated by the Word of God , on the List in Leviticus 11 then it is Food, if it is not on the list, then it is not something that is consecrated by the Word of God, no matter how much prayer.... Peter quotes Leviticus 11:44, It is written, be Holy for I am Holy 1 Peter 1:16

If it is not consecrated/sanctified by the Word of God, then it is not meant to be eaten

All the plants that God Created are Good, but not all plants are for food either.....

Now to answer the verses in question

Who forbids marriage, and eating Foods on the list of Leviticus 11

the RCC fits perfectly

the priests and nuns are forbidden to marry

and they command their followers to abstain from certain foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving... For those that know and believe the truth Psalms 119:142 .... Food that is on the List of Leviticus 11



Why don’t Catholics eat meat on Fridays?
Catholics abstain from flesh meat on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and the Fridays of Lent.

Abstinence is one of our oldest Christian traditions. “From the first century, the day of the crucifixion has been traditionally observed as a day of abstaining from flesh meat (“black fast”) to honor Christ who sacrificed his flesh on a Friday” (Klein, P., Catholic Source Book, 78).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Like the op, and a recent post about conscience, this isn't about you yourself. I've discussed this JOHN 17 with more people than I remember this year (and previous years) , and most don't understand it. (I learned what it meant long ago, so haven't asked anyone what it means in several years ).
Like conscience, but much much more important,
it seems vague in most ways to most people - some even deny that it is possible to be one with Jesus or with other believers, because they have never seen it nor sought it and because they've been taught wrong and other reasons(I haven't thought about 'why' they don't understand it very often - just recognize that usually they admit they don't, or they just deny it is possible)

The reality is , it is well nigh impossible to live as Jesus says to live ,
if this isn't experientially known. And over time , more and more so.

For perspective, see how often it is written the disciples lived "in union" with Jesus and the Father in the NT. (and with one another). verbatim "in union".
i.e for real, not acting, not made up, nor for show - but for real.

And the Father Himself then (daily) teaches all the disciples in union with Jesus
the "truth about everything regarding Salvation in this life, and in the life to come".

I appreciate your concern. I really do. I just wonder sometimes what inspires it about me particularly.
Yes, I've read it. Many, many times. I absolutely love that prayer, and know it well. And it has deep meaning for me. You just seemed to pull it out in an odd context and didn't ask me to explain it.
This thread isn't about me anyway. I would submit, respectfully, that you really don't know my life and my history with God
 
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~Anastasia~

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Like the op, and a recent post about conscience, this isn't about you yourself. I've discussed this JOHN 17 with more people than I remember this year (and previous years) , and most don't understand it. (I learned what it meant long ago, so haven't asked anyone what it means in several years ).
Like conscience, but much much more important,
it seems vague in most ways to most people - some even deny that it is possible to be one with Jesus or with other believers, because they have never seen it nor sought it and because they've been taught wrong and other reasons(I haven't thought about 'why' they don't understand it very often - just recognize that usually they admit they don't, or they just deny it is possible)

The reality is , it is well nigh impossible to live as Jesus says to live ,
if this isn't experientially known. And over time , more and more so.

For perspective, see how often it is written the disciples lived "in union" with Jesus and the Father in the NT. (and with one another). verbatim "in union".
i.e for real, not acting, not made up, nor for show - but for real.

And the Father Himself then (daily) teaches all the disciples in union with Jesus
the "truth about everything regarding Salvation in this life, and in the life to come".

Well thank you for explaining. It comes across as rather odd to be questioning whether someone else is a Christian (and is technically against site rules, just so you know, but I never reported it or anything - accusations are practice in humility), so you have made me wonder what I was saying to cause that.

Anyway, I think I've talked about myself more than enough, so I'll just say I agree that one must live this prayer in order to begin to live like Christ.

And there is no point to "made up" or "for show". That won't do us any good, and certainly doesn't fool God.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I agree it is a sin to violate your conscience, but abstaining from eating pork isn't a matter of conscience, but a matter of obedience. God's law clearly prohibits idolatry, so refraining from eating meat sacrificed to idols is likewise a matter of obedience rather than conscience, but God's law does not make it clear whether it counts as idolatry to eat meat when it is unknown whether it has been sacrificed to idols, so that is a matter of conscience.
I disagree that this is what the passage says.

Concerning things sacrificed to idols

1 Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love builds up.
2 But anyone who thinks that he knows anything does not yet know as he should know.
3 On the other hand, if anyone loves God, such a person is known by him.
4 Therefore, concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
5 Indeed, although there are [many] things called “gods” in the heavens or on earth—and there are many [so-called] “gods” and many “lords”—
6 yet, to us, there is one God the Father, from whom are all things; and we [are] for him; and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things, and we live through him.
7 However, such knowledge is not found in everyone. There are some who eat things sacrificed to an idol with awareness of the idol, and their conscience (being weak) is defiled.
8 But food does not commend us to God, for if we eat, we are not better; and if we do not eat, we are not worse!
9 However, be careful that your freedom may never become a stumbling block to the weak.
10 For if someone sees you who have knowledge sitting in an idol’s temple, will not this person’s conscience, if weak, be emboldened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
11 And thus, through your knowledge, shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ!
13 Therefore, if food causes my brethren to stumble, I will never ever eat meat, so that I may not cause my brethren to stumble.

The weak conscience does not recognize the insignificance of idols, and so would be defiled by eating meat sacrificed to them, if they are emboldened to go against their conscience. But if we eat, or don't, we are not better, or worse. The important thing is to be aware of our weaker brother's conscience.

And so, just so ... I am not encouraging you to change your behavior and go against your conscience.

I mention this only because I brought the passage into the conversation, and so explain why.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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My entire hope and joy is that you are indeed a CHristian as I've said in the past weeks....
(see below ; like testing a gold bar to prove it's value is real, as all through OT and NT is shown over and over and over )
Well thank you for explaining. It comes across as rather odd to be questioning whether someone else is a Christian
??
How does my saying for weeks that your testimony/posts are good or great/ that you are a Christian/ questioning whether you are a Christian ? I don't get that?
My statement taken from and is just like Scripture when it is written "Yhwh tests you like gold is tested - with a positive expectation of being even more proven - not ever with an expectation of not passing the test or not being proven in Him"
and
again "going from glory to glory in Him" (i.e. not stagnant, not at a standstill)
"pushing forward to what lies ahead and forgetting what lies behind" !

And "watching out for one another" and "encouraging one another" (in growth in Christ, literally "without measure"(no limit) ....

as HE gives (it is written) His Spirit , Joy, Peace and Righteousness
without measure to us (even though we were all once His enemies !!! )
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you(strong believer) sin against Christ!
This is written to the 'strong' believer ^^

and this:
Therefore, if food causes my brethren to stumble, I will never ever eat meat, so that I may not cause my brethren to stumble.
 
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Kenny'sID

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cockroach, pig, mushroom..i doubt the context was all about a kitchen menu of pig and exotic recipes. you can prove just about everything using scripture by jumping around and pointing this and that, except ignoring the context.

funny though, Paul was actually talking about people like SDA's and yourself, will always have a reason telling people not to eat this and that and connect it with sin and salvation. and you just can't see yourself in the mirror.

Explain to me how I was jumping around or out of context. I put things into context with the very verse the OP quoted.

The truth is the truth, but go ahead and eat your pork along with countless others who have taken the bible out of context to prove it's ok.

Personally, I often have have a shrimp or oyster dinner when I go out, but no longer keep any of that stuff at home. It is after all just health laws and not a sin unto Hell best I can tell. I eat it on occasion but I'm not going to lie to myself about what I'm doing.
 
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~Anastasia~

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(see below ; like testing a gold bar to prove it's value is real, as all through OT and NT is shown over and over and over )

??
How does my saying for weeks that your testimony/posts are good or great/ that you are a Christian/ questioning whether you are a Christian ? I don't get that?
My statement taken from and is just like Scripture when it is written "Yhwh tests you like gold is tested - with a positive expectation of being even more proven - not ever with an expectation of not passing the test or not being proven in Him"
and
again "going from glory to glory in Him" (i.e. not stagnant, not at a standstill)
"pushing forward to what lies ahead and forgetting what lies behind" !

And "watching out for one another" and "encouraging one another" (in growth in Christ, literally "without measure"(no limit) ....

as HE gives (it is written) His Spirit , Joy, Peace and Righteousness
without measure to us (even though we were all once His enemies !!! )

My apologies, yeshuaslavejeff.

To be honest, if you say to me that my testimony or post is great, I immediately forget it. ;) But when I read something like the one I responded to tonight

Did you consider JOHN 17 ?
Jesus prayer for you if you are one of Jesus' disciples (born again).
If not, don't bother to read it.

because I wonder what I'm missing, or why you posted it, or what you meant - those stay with me. And this isn't the first time you've made me think and wonder. :)

I have nothing else but my apologies to offer, and that I did thank you for your concern (and I said "good enough" if you happened to direct such things at many - I can only be here for limited time usually and I miss the bulk of posts).

Well, that and the fact that I'm still recovering (somewhat) from surgery, and if you go back a couple of weeks then I have had a great deal of brain fog during that period while recovering from anesthesia.

If I've offended you, I'm sorry, please forgive me.

Perhaps such statements are common in GT - I don't come here much anymore.

Forgive me, and God be with you.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And this isn't the first time you've made me think and wonder.
(chuckling) (gently with good joy) Good ! There is A LOT to think and wonder about as we grow in Christ together !
I have had a great deal of brain fog during that period while recovering from anesthesia.
I knew you had posted about this somewhat --- and was in prayer for you , but did not 'keep up' on the details....
If I've offended you, I'm sorry, please forgive me.
Oh, no, not at all--- if anything you have been 'intriguing' .... (in a good way, making me also think and wonder, somehow ? by God's Grace)

Perhaps such statements are common in GT - I don't come here much anymore.
No, I don't think so. I don't think you want to read what is common .....

What Yhwh "sets apart" is never common. Him first, His Word, and His People.
(JESUS ! ESPECIALLY IS NOT COMMON)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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because I wonder what I'm missing, or why you posted it, or what you meant - those stay with me.
OH--- I see what you mean now...... sorry it was posted quick and short without realizing how it would come across .... (I have a few excuses , but none of them any good really!) ..... so I'll just apologize for coming across that way.....
Please forgive me ... and always question if it sounds that way again.
Shalom always, in Jesus,
jeff
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Did you consider JOHN 17 ?

As Jesus also prayed other places, and showed that the Father will teach us all things by His Spirit -- like little children learning ,
or
rather, as little children learning..... (HE delights with JOY and DANCING OVER US)
@~Anastasia~ re-worded to better express God's Purpose (I Hope)....
:)
God is SOOOOOO GOOD !
 
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