1 Timothy 4:3

[ssammoh]

I am a little confused about this verse.
"Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

The word that was translated to "meats" actually means "food". So to me, it looks like this bible verse is saying not to tell people to abstain from certain foods. But what does that mean exactly?

I THINK the word "abstain" means to not let yourself do something, even if you feel like doing it.
Example: Someone wants to have a slice of pepperoni pizza, but they decide not to because they think they should eat something healthier instead. This person is abstaining from pepperoni pizza.

So what exactly does this verse mean? I don't think it means that I should eat all the junk food I want. That wouldn't be consistent with the bible telling us to take care of our bodies. Also, it would encourage gluttony.

So what does this verse really mean?

 

[ssammoh]

I'm guessing this just means not to tell other people what they can or can not eat? Just an idea. That's what I am going with for now.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I'm guessing this just means not to tell other people what they can or can not eat? Just an idea. That's what I am going with for now.

Yes, I'd agree that seems to be the general meaning. Don't command people to abstain from certain foods. Advising people to eat healthily is quite different, and is about looking after your body. Paul here is talking more about religious abstention from certain foods, like not eating pork, etc.

 

[Geralt]

Paul was describing that there were other sects/groups during that time telling people NOT to get married, or NOT to eat meat. this groups were putting religious reasons for this kind of rules, which is contrary to the very purpose of why God created them in the first place.

it is not about health reasons or why not to eat junk food.

for example a group i know does not want to eat pig meat, they say it is unclean and therefore you will sin if you eat it. its not about eating to much fat and therefore bad for your health (which i will agree), it is simply saying if you will eat pig meat you will sin and you will not go to heaven. this is of course wrong because, as Paul says,

1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, ​

I am a little confused about this verse.
"Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

The word that was translated to "meats" actually means "food". So to me, it looks like this bible verse is saying not to tell people to abstain from certain foods. But what does that mean exactly?

I THINK the word "abstain" means to not let yourself do something, even if you feel like doing it.
Example: Someone wants to have a slice of pepperoni pizza, but they decide not to because they think they should eat something healthier instead. This person is abstaining from pepperoni pizza.

So what exactly does this verse mean? I don't think it means that I should eat all the junk food I want. That wouldn't be consistent with the bible telling us to take care of our bodies. Also, it would encourage gluttony.

So what does this verse really mean?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am a little confused about this verse.
"Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

The word that was translated to "meats" actually means "food". So to me, it looks like this bible verse is saying not to tell people to abstain from certain foods. But what does that mean exactly?

I THINK the word "abstain" means to not let yourself do something, even if you feel like doing it.
Example: Someone wants to have a slice of pepperoni pizza, but they decide not to because they think they should eat something healthier instead. This person is abstaining from pepperoni pizza.

So what exactly does this verse mean? I don't think it means that I should eat all the junk food I want. That wouldn't be consistent with the bible telling us to take care of our bodies. Also, it would encourage gluttony.

So what does this verse really mean?

It means imposing dietary restrictions.

 

[Mark51]

It is not Timothy who is commanding the people to “abstain” from certain foods. He is quoting/paraphrasing others that either stayed from the congregation or non-believers. Read 1 Timothy 4:1, 2. Compare with: Matthew 24:24; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4; 2 Peter 2:1-3.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Paul was describing that there were other sects/groups during that time telling people NOT to get married, or NOT to eat meat. this groups were putting religious reasons for this kind of rules, which is contrary to the very purpose of why God created them in the first place.

it is not about health reasons or why not to eat junk food.

for example a group i know does not want to eat pig meat, they say it is unclean and therefore you will sin if you eat it. its not about eating to much fat and therefore bad for your health (which i will agree), it is simply saying if you will eat pig meat you will sin and you will not go to heaven. this is of course wrong because, as Paul says,

1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, ​

Does that verse apply to cockroaches? What about certain poisonous mushrooms? Or, does it apply to foods that God had already ordained as being clean and good for meat (food)?

 

[Geralt]

ah, an SDA of course. you say one thing, they say something ridiculous.
you should ask the cockcroach thing to the apostle paul, or try to look at the context if he meant also cockroach or mushroom.

Does that verse apply to cockroaches? What about certain poisonous mushrooms? Or, does it apply to foods that God had already ordained as being clean and good for meat (food)?

 

[Kenny'sID]

ah, an SDA of course. you say one thing, they say something ridiculous.
you should ask the cockcroach thing to the apostle paul, or try to look at the context if he meant also cockroach or mushroom.

Actually, it's not that ridiculous.

I've seen this verse used by druggies to justify what they do:

1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

and that is just one example of how the verse can be a bused. Here you are abusing it as in eating pig meat is ok.

Remember this verse...one the OP quoted, and look closely at it:

"Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

Pay special attention to the "which God hath made to be received"

God did not make pig meat to be received, matter of fact he was very specific it is not to be received, and I can show you where but I doubt I need to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So what exactly does this verse mean?

Yhwh knows everything from beginning to end, from the creation of the world (and eternity before ) through the destruction of heaven and earth (and eternity beyond).
That verse is telling of what happened religiously many centuries ago on earth and is still going on.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Does that verse apply to cockroaches? What about certain poisonous mushrooms? Or, does it apply to foods that God had already ordained as being clean and good for meat (food)?

Yeah- good points (that will not be grasped because in order to grasp anything, it must be granted to them from the Father in heaven; and they don't like what He says (from everything they've done 'forever' ( ) (love that word 'forever') )

 

[~Anastasia~]

There tend to arise those who create new "rules" in an attempt to make themselves "holy."

There have been several sects through the centuries that forbid marriage to their members, even though marriage is established by God and blessed. I would say this is along the same lines as some declaring a class of normal food (blessed by God) as "forbidden" and demanding that members abstain from that type of food supposedly in order to be received by God.

This seems to be a basic warning against those kinds of cults or sects that arise.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

There tend to arise those who create new "rules" in an attempt to make themselves "holy."

There have been several sects through the centuries that forbid marriage to their members, even though marriage is established by God and blessed. I would say this is along the same lines as some declaring a class of normal food (blessed by God) as "forbidden" and demanding that members abstain from that type of food supposedly in order to be received by God.

This seems to be a basic warning against those kinds of cults or sects that arise.

Show us from scripture where God blesses swine as food, notwithstanding the ambiguous and vague verse given. Why do you think He told the Israelites about the dangers of these foods? Are Jews made physiologically different than gentiles? Was God being deliberately unfair and almost cruel in denying these foods which you think are good? Because they taste good? That sounds like making lifestyle choices based on self gratification and not on obedience.

Interesting story... Swiss Air flight 111 crashed just off the coast of where I lived and all passengers perished, the government imposed a moratorium on fishing lobster in the are for a number of years (presumably to respect the dead). Today, people are chowin' down on some of the biggest and juiciest crustaceans you can imagine.... mmmm....mmmm.

Here's a clue to God's reasoning for banning certain animals for human consumption... they are designed by God to clean the earth, the biofilters and carrion of the planet. Not only are you eating polluted creatures but you are contributing to the state of the earth by reducing and sometimes eliminating through localized extinction, part of God's biosphere. It's like the buffalo train hunters... destroy for pleasure and rebellion.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Show us from scripture where God blesses swine as food, notwithstanding the ambiguous and vague verse given. Why do you think He told the Israelites about the dangers of these foods? Are Jews made physiologically different than gentiles? Was God being deliberately unfair and almost cruel in denying these foods which you think are good? Because they taste good? That sounds like making lifestyle choices based on self gratification and not on obedience.

Interesting story... Swiss Air flight 111 crashed just off the coast of where I lived and all passengers perished, the government imposed a moratorium on fishing lobster in the are for a number of years (presumably to respect the dead). Today, people are chowin' down on some of the biggest and juiciest crustaceans you can imagine.... mmmm....mmmm.

Here's a clue to God's reasoning for banning certain animals for human consumption... they are designed by God to clean the earth, the biofilters and carrion of the planet. Not only are you eating polluted creatures but you are contributing to the state of the earth by reducing and sometimes eliminating through localized extinction, part of God's biosphere. It's like the buffalo train hunters... destroy for pleasure and rebellion.

Did I mention swine?

Follow your own conscience.

I'm not interested in the debate and am blessed to be within my Church, and I agree with their interpretations of Scripture, for which we have good Apostolic foundations.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Did I mention swine?

Follow your own conscience.

I'm not interested in the debate and am blessed to be within my Church, and I agree with their interpretations of Scripture, for which we have good Apostolic foundations.

That's it?... retreat to tradition when scripture is plain but uncomfortable? God doesn't excuse us when we bury our heads and go against His Word.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That's it?... retreat to tradition when scripture is plain but uncomfortable? God doesn't excuse us when we bury our heads and go against His Word.

You and I don't agree on this point. Volumes of words have been written about it here in CF. What is the point of reiterating them? I'm sure you have probably already heard "my side" or most of it.

I have enough Scriptural and other support to be satisfied in my beliefs. And if I did somehow manage to convince you to change your behavior to suit my beliefs, you could be violating your conscience then and so sinning even if what you ate IS allowed by God. And I'd be responsible. Why should I want to do that to you, or to make myself guilty before God for doing that?

I see nothing potentially profitable. Only contention, at best, and sin at worst.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That's it?... retreat to tradition when scripture is plain but uncomfortable? God doesn't excuse us when we bury our heads and go against His Word.

Btw, I had a little laugh at your comment. You might not realize it, but Orthodoxy is probably as far as you can get from retreating from what is uncomfortable. I don't go out of my way to seek out discomfort in some kind of excess self-affliction, but we don't avoid it when it's necessary either.

 

[Soyeong]

I am a little confused about this verse.
"Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

The word that was translated to "meats" actually means "food". So to me, it looks like this bible verse is saying not to tell people to abstain from certain foods. But what does that mean exactly?

I THINK the word "abstain" means to not let yourself do something, even if you feel like doing it.
Example: Someone wants to have a slice of pepperoni pizza, but they decide not to because they think they should eat something healthier instead. This person is abstaining from pepperoni pizza.

So what exactly does this verse mean? I don't think it means that I should eat all the junk food I want. That wouldn't be consistent with the bible telling us to take care of our bodies. Also, it would encourage gluttony.

So what does this verse really mean?

I think looking that the context is important to determine whether the people being talked about are trying to get others to follow man-made laws or whether they are trying to get others to follow God's laws. For example, are the people teaching obedience to God's commands departing from the faith (4:1)? In the OT, was it the doctrine of deceitful spirits and demons to disobey God's commands, but now in the NT they are teaching us to obey them (4:1)? Are those who teach obedience to God's commands liars who have their consciences seared (4:2)? Are the same also forbidding marriage (4:3)? Is obedience to God not good doctrine (4:6)? Are God's command irreverent silly myths (4:7)? Is teaching obedience to God teaching ungodliness (4:7)? If not, then why should we think that Paul was suddenly switching topics? Rather, I think it is clear that those teaching abstinence from certain foods in regard to those who are promoting self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, not in regard to God's dietary laws. We should be careful not to mistake something that was against obeying man as being against obeying God. This has nothing to do with teaching others to abstain from eating an unhealthy diet.

 

[Soyeong]

Did I mention swine?

Follow your own conscience.

I'm not interested in the debate and am blessed to be within my Church, and I agree with their interpretations of Scripture, for which we have good Apostolic foundations.

The law was given to reveal to us what things are sin and without the law we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7), so do you think Paul was saying that it is ok to do what God has revealed to be sin as long as their conscience is not bothered by it? The law was also given because of transgression, or in other words, because their consciences had become seared and weren't bothered by what they were doing. No, it is never acceptable to do what God has revealed to be sin, so where God gives a clear command, human opinion must yield, but when God's word is unclear only then should each person be convinced in their own minds. In other words, we must obey God rather than man and should not mistake something that was against giving heed to man's opinions about how to correctly obey God as being against obeying God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

their interpretations of Scripture

Did you consider JOHN 17 ?

As Jesus also prayed other places, and showed that the Father will teach us all things by His Spirit -- like little children learning ,
or
rather, as little children learning..... (HE delights with JOY and DANCING OVER US)