1 John 3:8 says Jesus destroyed the works of the devil , why does the devil get most people?

[eleos1954]

The cross was preplanned, or redemption was preplanned. But not in the sense of choosing who would be saved and who would not. God did not know how individuals would respond to His plan. As we see in the scripture I gave from Genisis below:

Gen 6:5-7 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

As I mentioned in my rather long post, God gives light to "every man coming into the world" (John 1:9), not to an elect few. As Jesus said regarding becoming a son of God.

Joh 12:36 While ye have the light, believe on the light, that ye may become sons of light. These things spake Jesus, and he departed and hid himself from them.

God gives light to us all, but we must believe in the light, to become sons.

For God to be God, God must be infallible and know the future perfectly, including all our actions from birth to death.

He knows what our decisions will be .... but does not interfere with those decisions.

He is all knowing.

 

[Hawkins]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

The sheep and goats/wolves, and wheat and weeds metaphors say that God knows who is who from the very beginning. His goal is to save all His sheep with not a single one left behind. While we can reconcile this later with the names written in the Book of Life.

 

[Hawkins]

For God to be God, God must be infallible and know the future perfectly, including all our actions from birth to death.

He knows what our decisions will be .... but does not interfere with those decisions.

He is all knowing.

There are several levels of misunderstanding that exist. Ancient humans demand a reason for certain things for them to convey what is told. It is extremely difficult for ancient humans to convey something they don't have an explanation for the reason why. Noah demands such an explanation. God gave him one emotionally close to what it is. God felt sorry for His creation being like this. This is the closest God can tell an ancient human and for him to bring all the messages forward.

God won't tell Him the theory on how Law demands the earth be destroyed, as Law is introduced to the Jews only through Moses. He didn't tell Noah that He already foresaw all this and Jesus would the solution, such that the covenant of Rainbow can reach Noah to save his family and later humans, as covenants are signed by the blood of Jesus while humans should all be dead in front of God's Law.

God knows only what He cares about. It is because His omniscience and omnipresence work under His omnipotence. God thus has all the ability to choose not to know what will happen to the wicked when they are in the permanent separation. He also has all the ability not to be present in the Lake of Fire if such a place is true.

"He knows" alone won't work. If God knows alone is good enough, the earth doesn't need to exist. God just puts whoever is not qualified to hell without a said Judgment. That's not the goal. The goal is for things to be put under witnesses, then openly judged by Law. Only so that God's justice is seen by angels as well as humans. That's why "God knows" alone isn't the point. Things need to be witnessed openly by the angels and chosen saints such that a fair judgment will be carried out to determine who is qualified to set foot in Heaven. God, on the other hand, knows everything beforehand. That's why the Book of Life was written beforehand.

God knows everything however Law is a tool for the judgment of an entity's past behavior under open witnesses. Though God alone is a valid testimony, however, if everything is "God alone knows", it won't say how fair and just God is. Other under the circumstance that things are openly witnessed and openly judged that it shows how good and how just God is, as well as how precise His foreknowledge is.

 

[Der Alte]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Your thread title is false!

1 John 3:8 says Jesus destroyed the works of the devil , why does the devil get most people?​

Here is what 1 John 3:8 actually says.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.​

It does NOT say as you posted "Jesus destroyed the works of the devil." Can you read "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
You asked,

"How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for?" ​

The answer is because we all have a choice. People are not mindless robots who are born, live and all choose Jesus because they have no other choice.

 

[eleos1954]

There are several levels of misunderstanding that exist. Ancient humans demand a reason for certain things for them to convey what is told. It is extremely difficult for ancient humans to convey something they don't have an explanation for the reason why. Noah demands such an explanation. God gave him one emotionally close to what it is. God felt sorry for His creation being like this. This is the closest God can tell an ancient human and for him to bring all the messages forward.

God won't tell Him the theory on how Law demands the earth be destroyed, as Law is introduced to the Jews only through Moses. He didn't tell Noah that He already foresaw all this and Jesus would the solution, such that the covenant of Rainbow can reach Noah to save his family and later humans, as covenants are signed by the blood of Jesus while humans should all be dead in front of God's Law.

God knows only what He cares about. It is because His omniscience and omnipresence work under His omnipotence. God thus has all the ability to choose not to know what will happen to the wicked when they are in the permanent separation. He also has all the ability not to be present in the Lake of Fire if such a place is true.

"He knows" alone won't work. If God knows alone is good enough, the earth doesn't need to exist. God just puts whoever is not qualified to hell without a said Judgment. That's not the goal. The goal is for things to be put under witnesses, then openly judged by Law. Only so that God's justice is seen by angels as well as humans. That's why "God knows" alone isn't the point. Things need to be witnessed openly by the angels and chosen saints such that a fair judgment will be carried out to determine who is qualified to set foot in Heaven. God, on the other hand, knows everything beforehand. That's why the Book of Life was written beforehand.

God knows everything however Law is a tool for the judgment of an entity's past behavior under open witnesses. Though God alone is a valid testimony, however, if everything is "God alone knows", it won't say how fair and just God is. Other under the circumstance that things are openly witnessed and openly judged that it shows how good and how just God is, as well as how precise His foreknowledge is.

as Law is introduced to the Jews only through Moses.

Gods law represents His character .... He has always been .... His Law (character) has always been and is never changing. Sin is transgression of the law and sin first happened in heaven (by lucifer and the 1/3 of the angels) ..... before the Jews.

Indeed God has perfect foreknowledge.

The forthcoming of Jesus was first noted in Genesis before Noah ...

As a result of the serpent's temptation of Eve, which resulted in the fall of man, God announces (in Genesis 3:15) that he will put an enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman. In Christianity, this verse is known as the protoevangelium, and is interpreted as a prophecy of the coming of Jesus.

Protevangelium: This is a compound of two Greek words, protos meaning "first" and evangelion meaning "good news" or "gospel". Thus the verse is commonly referred to as the first mention in the Bible of the "good news" of salvation.

 

[TedT]

Please show me in scripture that God does not know all things.

I deny that YHWH knows 'all things' by the current definition because that implies HE knew who would end in hell before they were created but HE created them anyway against HIS express statement that HE does not desire nor take pleasure in anyone going to hell! !!!

The current pagan definition of HIS omniscience as accepted from the Greeks must be reconsidered, no matter how holy it sounds.

 

[Aaron112]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Jesus is victorious of course, but those who choose to follow sin, to stay in sin, cannot be healed in Jesus, except when or if YHVH Pleases to do so.

 

[Dan Perez]

Jesus is victorious of course, but those who choose to follow sin, to stay in sin, cannot be healed in Jesus, except when or if YHVH Pleases to do so.

 

[Dan Perez]

And one is in Eph 1:4 hat Paul wrote , that we were CHOSEN , BEFORE / PROTOS , the foundation of the WORLD ..

dan p

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Jesus is victorious of course, but those who choose to follow sin, to stay in sin, cannot be healed in Jesus, except when or if YHVH Pleases to do so.

So you believe man has a stronger will than God, because if Jesus was victorious and saved all but there are some who have a stronger will and overcome Jesus victory and remain in sin and cannot be healed, then some people are stronger that the Jesus you follow.

 

[Paleouss]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Greetings Jeff. Grace and hope to all those who believe is Christ our Lord.

I was meandering about and saw your OP from 2022. I thought I would give my two cents.

I believe the Bible teaches that the Son of God came for multiple purposes. Reducing them down to an overarching two. I will present (1) Cosmic Triumph (conquerer) (2) Sacrificial Reconciliation (Savior). Within Jewish tradition these two distinctions are Mashiach ben David & Mashiach ben Yoseph.

Within the first purpose, i.e., Cosmic Triumph. The Son of God will put all things under His feet (1Cor 15:24-28, Rom 8:20-23, Psa 8:6, Heb 2:8). This "all things" include "principalities", "rulers", "spiritual hosts", etc. (Eph 6:12), and "authorities" (1Pet 3:22)... AND... "powers" (Eph 6:12, 1Cor 15:24, 1 Pet 3:22, Col 2:15).

Focusing on the term "powers". We know that one thing this term "power" refers to is death. We see this in 1Cor 15:24-26, where "power" is described as an "enemy" and then says the last enemy to be destroyed (conquered) will be "death" (1Cor 15:26)

Further, in Hebrews 2:14 it says that Christ "through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil." (Heb 2:14). So the "works of the devil" (1John 3:8) are his "powers" like death and sin. Regarding sin, we see in Rom 8:3 that the Son of God came to do what "the law could not do in that it was weak" (Rom 8:3). And that was to conquer sin, "He condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom 8:3).

I presented all that to make the distinction clear between the Son of God's two overarching purposes according to scripture; that of Conquerer AND Savior. The verse you quote (1John 3:8) is referring to God the Son as conquerer. Although the two do intertwine, the former (Conquerer) benefits all mankind. That is what Christ did 'for all the world' in which all mankind benefits. This is, imo, what is sufficient for all.

Only when we talk about those that have believed and had faith do we then talk about what was efficacious.

So to speak to your OP directly. Christ gets exactly what He pays for. Within one purpose as conquerer, Christ gets what he paid for which is the putting of all things under His foot. This conquers the works of the devil and allows all to be the recipient of a bonified offer of salvation. If only they believe and have faith.

Christ also came to secure His elect. Within this purpose, the Son of God gets just what He pays for.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Greetings Jeff. Grace and hope to all those who believe is Christ our Lord.

I was meandering about and saw your OP from 2022. I thought I would give my two cents.

I believe the Bible teaches that the Son of God came for multiple purposes. Reducing them down to an overarching two. I will present (1) Cosmic Triumph (conquerer) (2) Sacrificial Reconciliation (Savior). Within Jewish tradition these two distinctions are Mashiach ben David & Mashiach ben Yoseph.

Within the first purpose, i.e., Cosmic Triumph. The Son of God will put all things under His feet (1Cor 15:24-28, Rom 8:20-23, Psa 8:6, Heb 2:8). This "all things" include "principalities", "rulers", "spiritual hosts", etc. (Eph 6:12), and "authorities" (1Pet 3:22)... AND... "powers" (Eph 6:12, 1Cor 15:24, 1 Pet 3:22, Col 2:15).

Focusing on the term "powers". We know that one thing this term "power" refers to is death. We see this in 1Cor 15:24-26, where "power" is described as an "enemy" and then says the last enemy to be destroyed (conquered) will be "death" (1Cor 15:26)

Further, in Hebrews 2:14 it says that Christ "through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil." (Heb 2:14). So the "works of the devil" (1John 3:8) are his "powers" like death and sin. Regarding sin, we see in Rom 8:3 that the Son of God came to do what "the law could not do in that it was weak" (Rom 8:3). And that was to conquer sin, "He condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom 8:3).

I presented all that to make the distinction clear between the Son of God's two overarching purposes according to scripture; that of Conquerer AND Savior. The verse you quote (1John 3:8) is referring to God the Son as conquerer. Although the two do intertwine, the former (Conquerer) benefits all mankind. That is what Christ did 'for all the world' in which all mankind benefits. This is, imo, what is sufficient for all.

Only when we talk about those that have believed and had faith do we then talk about what was efficacious.

So to speak to your OP directly. Christ gets exactly what He pays for. Within one purpose as conquerer, Christ gets what he paid for which is the putting of all things under His foot. This conquers the works of the devil and allows all to be the recipient of a bonified offer of salvation. If only they believe and have faith.

Christ also came to secure His elect. Within this purpose, the Son of God gets just what He pays for.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

Greetings Jeff. Grace and hope to all those who believe is Christ our Lord.

I was meandering about and saw your OP from 2022. I thought I would give my two cents.

I believe the Bible teaches that the Son of God came for multiple purposes. Reducing them down to an overarching two. I will present (1) Cosmic Triumph (conquerer) (2) Sacrificial Reconciliation (Savior). Within Jewish tradition these two distinctions are Mashiach ben David & Mashiach ben Yoseph.

Within the first purpose, i.e., Cosmic Triumph. The Son of God will put all things under His feet (1Cor 15:24-28, Rom 8:20-23, Psa 8:6, Heb 2:8). This "all things" include "principalities", "rulers", "spiritual hosts", etc. (Eph 6:12), and "authorities" (1Pet 3:22)... AND... "powers" (Eph 6:12, 1Cor 15:24, 1 Pet 3:22, Col 2:15).

Focusing on the term "powers". We know that one thing this term "power" refers to is death. We see this in 1Cor 15:24-26, where "power" is described as an "enemy" and then says the last enemy to be destroyed (conquered) will be "death" (1Cor 15:26)

Further, in Hebrews 2:14 it says that Christ "through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil." (Heb 2:14). So the "works of the devil" (1John 3:8) are his "powers" like death and sin. Regarding sin, we see in Rom 8:3 that the Son of God came to do what "the law could not do in that it was weak" (Rom 8:3). And that was to conquer sin, "He condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom 8:3).

I presented all that to make the distinction clear between the Son of God's two overarching purposes according to scripture; that of Conquerer AND Savior. The verse you quote (1John 3:8) is referring to God the Son as conquerer. Although the two do intertwine, the former (Conquerer) benefits all mankind. That is what Christ did 'for all the world' in which all mankind benefits. This is, imo, what is sufficient for all.

Only when we talk about those that have believed and had faith do we then talk about what was efficacious.

So to speak to your OP directly. Christ gets exactly what He pays for. Within one purpose as conquerer, Christ gets what he paid for which is the putting of all things under His foot. This conquers the works of the devil and allows all to be the recipient of a bonified offer of salvation. If only they believe and have faith.

Christ also came to secure His elect. Within this purpose, the Son of God gets just what He pays for.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

Thank you for that it was good. You are correct but then you throw in “ if only they believe and have faith “ but scripture says all will believe and have faith. Scripture says three times “ every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord “ this is the very thing one must do to be a follower of Jesus and scripture says it will happen to everyone.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I deny that YHWH knows 'all things' by the current definition because that implies HE knew who would end in hell before they were created but HE created them anyway against HIS express statement that HE does not desire nor take pleasure in anyone going to hell! !!!

The current pagan definition of HIS omniscience as accepted from the Greeks must be reconsidered, no matter how holy it sounds.

I deny that YHWH knows 'all things' by the current definition because that implies HE knew who would end in hell before they were created but HE created them anyway against HIS express statement that HE does not desire nor take pleasure in anyone going to hell! !!!

The current pagan definition of HIS omniscience as accepted from the Greeks must be reconsidered, no matter how holy it sounds.

Maybe "hell" is not what you think and yes people go there, but its not eternal,it's for refinement unto reconciliation. That is why God has said three times " Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord"

 

[Paleouss]

Thank you for that it was good. You are correct but then you throw in “ if only they believe and have faith “ but scripture says all will believe and have faith. Scripture says three times “ every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord “ this is the very thing one must do to be a follower of Jesus and scripture says it will happen to everyone.

Jeff, thank you for your reply. I hope your week has started off well.

In my other post I made an error in not completing my thought. My apologies. I had originally wrote, "This conquers the works of the devil and allows all to be the recipient of a bonified offer of salvation."

This should have been the end of that thought. Basically, I wanted to assert that Christ as conquerer grounds the offer of salvation, makes it a bonified offer, to all people. That is, it was "sufficient" for all mankind.

I then wrote in the previous post, right after talking about the bonified offer, "If only they believe and have faith." This should have been within the context of Christ's work on the cross that is "efficacious". In other words, if only one believes and has faith, the work of Christ is then efficacious. The bonified offer is still for all mankind.

You went on to write, after my error....

but scripture says all will believe and have faith. Scripture says three times “ every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord “ this is the very thing one must do to be a follower of Jesus and scripture says it will happen to everyone.

I have two points regarding your quote, above.

1. You say, "scripture says all will believe and have faith". I want to highlight your use of the words "believe" and "faith".

2. then you say, "Scripture says three times, 'every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord". I want to highlight the words "bow" and "confess" as Lord.

My first point is that, if you can agree, the words 'faith and belief' are not the same words as 'bow and confess'. The use of bow and confess, like in Romans 14:11, refers to judgment day. It is a reflection of what I presented in my other post, that is, Jesus as conquerer (and judge). In the sense of conquerer of all, Jesus Christ is Lord over all in His conquest (all shall bow before the conquerer).

In Phil 2:10 we find the same thing. That is, the context is Christ being exalted above all others. He is on high, Lord and conquerer of all things. He is the Alpha and Omega. His kingdom will be over all. Thus, all will bow and confess that He is Lord (as conquerer).

You have mixed the two purposes and accomplishments of Christ within scripture as Conquerer AND Savior into one (just Savior). To be saved, one must believe and have faith. For "without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Heb 11:6). The proper way to come before the Lord, bringing oneself empty before God in faith, is to submit to God (Jam 4:7) and deny yourself (Luke 9:23), be humbled (Isa 66:2), lowly of spirit (Pro 16:19, Pro 29:23), contrite of heart (Psa 51:17,Psa 34:18), and not puffed up (Hab 2:4).

Your two examples are examples of the finished work of Christ on the cross. However, where your two example are not the same is in that each represent different purposes. One represents Christ as conquerer, the other as Christ as savior. Therefore, bowing and confessing, in which all will do, refers to Christ as conquerer. Not Christ as savior, where narrow is the gate to salvation and wide is the gate to destruction.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure (Prov 2).



Peace to you brother.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Jeff, thank you for your reply. I hope your week has started off well.

In my other post I made an error in not completing my thought. My apologies. I had originally wrote, "This conquers the works of the devil and allows all to be the recipient of a bonified offer of salvation."

This should have been the end of that thought. Basically, I wanted to assert that Christ as conquerer grounds the offer of salvation, makes it a bonified offer, to all people. That is, it was "sufficient" for all mankind.

I then wrote in the previous post, right after talking about the bonified offer, "If only they believe and have faith." This should have been within the context of Christ's work on the cross that is "efficacious". In other words, if only one believes and has faith, the work of Christ is then efficacious. The bonified offer is still for all mankind.

You went on to write, after my error....

I have two points regarding your quote, above.

1. You say, "scripture says all will believe and have faith". I want to highlight your use of the words "believe" and "faith".

2. then you say, "Scripture says three times, 'every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord". I want to highlight the words "bow" and "confess" as Lord.

My first point is that, if you can agree, the words 'faith and belief' are not the same words as 'bow and confess'. The use of bow and confess, like in Romans 14:11, refers to judgment day. It is a reflection of what I presented in my other post, that is, Jesus as conquerer (and judge). In the sense of conquerer of all, Jesus Christ is Lord over all in His conquest (all shall bow before the conquerer).

In Phil 2:10 we find the same thing. That is, the context is Christ being exalted above all others. He is on high, Lord and conquerer of all things. He is the Alpha and Omega. His kingdom will be over all. Thus, all will bow and confess that He is Lord (as conquerer).

You have mixed the two purposes and accomplishments of Christ within scripture as Conquerer AND Savior into one (just Savior). To be saved, one must believe and have faith. For "without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Heb 11:6). The proper way to come before the Lord, bringing oneself empty before God in faith, is to submit to God (Jam 4:7) and deny yourself (Luke 9:23), be humbled (Isa 66:2), lowly of spirit (Pro 16:19, Pro 29:23), contrite of heart (Psa 51:17,Psa 34:18), and not puffed up (Hab 2:4).

Your two examples are examples of the finished work of Christ on the cross. However, where your two example are not the same is in that each represent different purposes. One represents Christ as conquerer, the other as Christ as savior. Therefore, bowing and confessing, in which all will do, refers to Christ as conquerer. Not Christ as savior, where narrow is the gate to salvation and wide is the gate to destruction.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure (Prov 2).



Peace to you brother.

The problem with your idea is the very word used for confess in Phil 2:11 is Exomologeo, the very definition of the word is- to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservations. The very definition of the word is that they see Jesus for who he is and accept him as Lord they confess with their mouth, the very thing all must do.
This is not a boot on the neck and they say yes , out of fear or terror, God would not accept that kind of confession, it must be from a sincere heart.
You need to study 1 Cor 15 :17-28
VS 19 If we had hope on the Anointed only within this life, we are the most pitiable of men. VS 20 But now the Anointed had been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. VS21 For ,since death comes through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. VS22 For just as in Adam all die, so also in the Anointed all will be given life.( Rom 5:18 ) . VS 23 And each in the proper order: the Anointed as the firstfruits, thereafter those who are in the Anointed at his arrival, VS 24 Then the full completion, when he delivers the Kingdom to him who is God and Father, when he renders every Principality and every Authority and Power ineffectual. VS 25 For he must reign till he puts all enemies under his feet. VS 26 The last enemy rendered ineffectual is death. VS 27 For " He subordinated all things beneath his feet," But when it says " all things" have been subordinated beneath his feet, it is clear that this does not include the one who has subordinated all things to him, VS 28 And, when all things have been subordinated to him, then will the Son himself also be subordinated to the one who has subordinated all things to him, so that God, may be all in all.
In this passage no humans are being conquered, all humanity is saved not conquered. The only things conquered are the " Principality and Authority and Power that are made ineffectual"
John 4:42 is a declaration , not a possibility, Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the world.
1 Tim 4:9-11 because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men, especially of those who believe. ( The all men in this verse is the same as VS 27 above " the full completion" , the especially of those who believe, are the save as VS 23 above " those who are the Anointed at his arrival" that's all the believers.
Matt 7 narrow gate and wide gate have nothing to do with salvation, look at the context of the chapters around it ,nothing about afterlife. This is just about our life in the mortal body, most do not find Jesus now they live in death, some do find Jesus and that gate is hard, dying to self and loving others before ourselves, even our enemies is a hard road to walk down and few find it in this life, most find it in the next age.

 

[Josheb]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Satan does not get the majority.

Satan is dead and enslaved to sin just like all the rest of us sinners. The Christian is redeemed. There is, therefore, no long no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1). ALL the others receive the exact same fate, whether human or angel. God is not mocked; a person reaps either eternal life or eternal destruction (Gal. 6:7-8).

Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Satan's name is not written in the Lamb's book of life. He gets thrown into the fiery lake just like all the rest of the Christ-deniers. Remember: Satan is a created creature. He has no power but that which his Creator gives him, and he serves only God's purposes. He is a minion.

 

[Paleouss]

Greetings again Jeff. Thank you for your thoughtful post. I hope with all hope that our Savior will return.

The problem with your idea is the very word used for confess in Phil 2:11 is Exomologeo

Will you please give the source of your definition of exomologéō. Here is one source from Strong's..."ἐξομολογέω exomologéō, ex-om-ol-og-eh'-o; from G1537 and G3670; to acknowledge or (by implication, of assent) agree fully:—confess, profess, promise."

As you notice, it does not have the added words that you gave. Those words being, "joyful", "give praise", "without reservation".

Satan and the fallen acknowledge that God is Lord. They just would like to overthrow that because they don't inwardly have faith that God is their lord.

I would like to get back to what sparked my reply to you. That being that you said..."scripture says all will believe and have faith" (your quote below).

Thank you for that it was good. You are correct but then you throw in “ if only they believe and have faith “ but scripture says all will believe and have faith.

My overall point that I thought was implied (I apologize for the vagueness), was that nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly state "all will believe and have faith". So we are clear, explicitly means word for word. You try and assert that the words "kneel and bow" and "confess as Lord over all" implicitly suggests the equivalent of "faith" and "belief" for salvation (before judgement) so you then can draw in all the faith and belief verses into the kneel and confess as Lord over all verses.

I on the other hand have brought into the discussion how the verses with kneel and bow and confess as Lord over all can be taken as explicit. And not by suggesting my own interpretation, although it is mine as well. By bringing into the conversation how the Jewish interpreted the prophecy of the Scripture prior to the coming of Jesus.

Within the Jewish cultures (i.e., sects) there was the scriptural understanding or belief of two types of Messiahs. They thought these would actually be two different people (it has been revealed to use that it is actually only one person coming twice). One was the Jewish concept of Mashiach ben David, the conquerer (and yes, this is ultimately the boot on neck for those that appose Him, i.e., the unbelieving, the devil and fallen angels). The second was the Jewish concept of Mashiach ben Joseph, the Savior.

Christians see Jesus Christ as fulfilling the prophesy of the Jewish understanding of Mashiach ben Joseph. Further, we understand Jesus as being the person who will also fulfill the prophecy of the Jewish understanding of Mashiach ben David (the conquerer), when Jesus returns.

So there you have it. How the vases can be divided into Conquerer and Savior. Multiple purposes of Christ on the cross are depicted within scripture represented by Mashiach ben Joseph and Mashiach ben David. These multiple purposes basically boil down to Christ's cosmic triumph as conquerer and Christ's redemptive triumph as savior. In another post, I gave some verses that point toward Mashiach ben David (the conquerer). Both are throughout the entire Bible and should be understood to intertwine, but are not always referring to the same purposes.

Great conversation Jeff. Peace and love to you and yours.

 

[Hazelelponi]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Because they aren't saved. Power over Satan is by the power and authority of Christ alone, for His Glory alone.

No one has this power outside of Christ, but if we are in Christ, while we aren't yet in our ultimate and glorified state and can still fall to some temptation, we will not be conquered by sin.