1 John 3:8 says Jesus destroyed the works of the devil , why does the devil get most people?

[Jeff Saunders]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

 

[Rachel20]

Who can know the numbers? But Isaiah 53:10-11 says many will be justified by him, and he will be satisfied:

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I believe that God did not know that man would choose in the way that he did. As we see from the statement regarding the flood.

Gen 6:5-7 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Note that God was sorry he made man, due to the way man chose to live. God never planned to send a large percentage to hell, but due to the nature of God, not allowing evil, he carried through with things once they had begun.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Jesus Christ of Nazareth conquered sin, Satan's hold on mankind. His Holy Spirit is for anyone willing to recieve it. Satan can no longer decieve the world because salvation has freed us from the bondage of sin. The adversary cannot accuse us because we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This is open to anyone who believes.
Blessings

 

[Der Alte]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Which vs(s) are you talking about? Or are we supposed to guess it? What do we get if we get it right?
Belay that. I think I found the vs.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy [λυση] [Aorist Active Subjunctive]the works of the devil.​

Notice the word luso which is translated destroy is an aorist, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the mood of possibility, potentiality the specified action might or might not occur.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I believe that God did not know that man would choose in the way that he did. As we see from the statement regarding the flood.

Gen 6:5-7 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Note that God was sorry he made man, due to the way man chose to live. God never planned to send a large percentage to hell, but due to the nature of God, not allowing evil, he carried through with things once they had begun.

So you don’t believe that God knows all things before they play out on earth? So you believe God can be surprise by human disobedience?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Which vs(s) are you talking about? Or are we supposed to guess it? What do we get if we get it right?
Belay that. I think I found the vs.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy [λυση] [Aorist Active Subjunctive]the works of the devil.​

Notice the word luso which is translated destroy is an aorist, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the mood of possibility, potentiality the specified action might or might not occur.

So are you saying that Jesus might or might not destroy the works of the devil?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth conquered sin, Satan's hold on mankind. His Holy Spirit is for anyone willing to recieve it. Satan can no longer decieve the world because salvation has freed us from the bondage of sin. The adversary cannot accuse us because we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This is open to anyone who believes.
Blessings

So you are saying that satan is no longer deceiving the world? Then why do so many people follow him?

 

[Der Alte]

So are you saying that Jesus might or might not destroy the works of the devil?

I didn't "say" anything, I quoted the verse and parsed one word. If you don't like it go talk to the author. You know how to do that don't you? Jesus saving the world didn't work out to well for Judas or the rich man did it?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I didn't "say" anything, I quoted the verse and parsed one word. If you don't like it go talk to the author. You know how to do that don't you? Jesus saving the world didn't work out to well for Judas or the rich man did it?

Judas and the rich man were both before Jesus went to the cross. But maybe scripture was wrong when Jesus said He would lose none of those the Father gave him? Maybe Jesus was just confused, He didn’t have any letters behind his name and was probably self taught. And you know as you have said you can’t trust a self taught man.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So you are saying that satan is no longer deceiving the world? Then why do so many people follow him?

People follow the lust of their flesh. Satan is ths tempter who works through the flesh. Flesh cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Jesus Christ of Nazareth laid out His path where the Spirit overcomes the flesh. This is the Born Again condition of a regenerated believer. Blessings.

 

[Der Alte]

Judas and the rich man were both before Jesus went to the cross. But maybe scripture was wrong when Jesus said He would lose none of those the Father gave him? Maybe Jesus was just confused, He didn’t have any letters behind his name and was probably self taught. And you know as you have said you can’t trust a self taught man.

Ah yes. That old ploy deliberately misrepresent what I said. Does you "church" teach that or are you self taught? When you consult a doctor, lawyer, accountant do you want someone with some letters after his name or maybe you want one who is self taught.
What exactly is your point about Judas and the rich man? IIRC Judas was one of Jesus' disciples so he wasn't before Jesus.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

So you don’t believe that God knows all things before they play out on earth? So you believe God can be surprise by human disobedience?

That is what the bible says, base theology on the bible, not human opinions.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

But maybe scripture was wrong when Jesus said He would lose none of those the Father gave him? Maybe Jesus was just confused, He didn’t have any letters behind his name and was probably self taught. And you know as you have said you can’t trust a self taught man.

Judas was not given to Jesus by the father because he lived an unrepentant sinful life.

John 12:6 Now this he said, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the bag took away what was put therein.

Sin is the thing that separates people from salvation. To be chosen by God a person needs to do the following:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

The one who obeys Jesus obeys the Father and becomes one of God's sheep. The one who sins (unrepentantly) is of the devil, sin is the issue. I discuss below how salvation either occurs or not below.

As people when we are born we have no knowledge of God, we walk in a quagmire of maybes, yet at some point in our lives God will give a person light, understanding, and knowledge, this can occur numerous times. As in Job, the rebellious believer is given chance after chance to change:

Job 33:29-30 "Behold, God works all these things, Twice, in fact, three times with a man, To bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life.


This light, understanding, or knowledge God gives to all people.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

It is how the individual responds to that light that determines if they move towards salvation, or move towards destruction.

Job 36:10-12 He openeth also their ear to instruction, And commandeth that they return from iniquity. If they hearken and serve him, They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures. But if they hearken not, they shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge.


What we do with the knowledge God gives us, will determine, our destiny. There are two pathways, our eyes remain open, and we follow after righteousness, or we desire sin more than God and drift into spiritual blindness. I show both of these pathways below:

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


LIFE

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus said that if a man loves God, he will attempt to live God’s way. God will open such a person’s eyes to His saving grace. Note that it is often the pure grace of God that leads to salvation, God showing His forgiveness and mercy toward the sinner. But the person then needs to live out their salvation, obeying God, they still need to keep His words.

Joh 6:28-29 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

DEATH

The bible tells us that light has come to every man, but some love the darkness more than the light God reveals.

Joh 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

They suppress the knowledge of God. In doing this God gives them over to a darkened heart, if people refuse repentance they will eventually become totally blind to grace, the light that God gives. If a person lives in the desires of the flesh, refusing to return to God, they will eventually perish.

Rom 1:18-21 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.


Joh 8:43-45 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.


2Th 2:10-12 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Man is ultimately responsible for His own salvation. As the bible says of the sinner:

Tit 3:11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Ah yes. That old ploy deliberately misrepresent what I said. Does you "church" teach that or are you self taught? When you consult a doctor, lawyer, accountant do you want someone with some letters after his name or maybe you want one who is self taught.
What exactly is your point about Judas and the rich man? IIRC Judas was one of Jesus' disciples so he wasn't before Jesus.

My point about Judas and the rich man is that they died before the cross so they were under the old covenant, they too will have to put there trust in Jesus as we all will do. ( every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, the very thing scripture says is how we get saved)so you need to understand the rest of the story. I wonder have you ever read any of the books that teaches UR ? You seem to have a real lack of understanding when it comes to the thing that you fight so hard to disprove. I challenge you to read David Bentley Hart, Ilaria Ramelli, George W Sarris, you should read Hart because he knows Greek and I think he will challenge your view. As for self taught I don’t care I would go to a doctor that is self taught as long as he is good. You see truth is truth no matter if one is self taught or went to some place of learning, you really need to get out of the world system that lifts up knowledge above truth. All truth is Gods truth.

 

[Der Alte]

My point about Judas and the rich man is that they died before the cross so they were under the old covenant, they too will have to put there trust in Jesus as we all will do. ( every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, the very thing scripture says is how we get saved)so you need to understand the rest of the story. I wonder have you ever read any of the books that teaches UR ? You seem to have a real lack of understanding when it comes to the thing that you fight so hard to disprove. I challenge you to read David Bentley Hart, Ilaria Ramelli, George W Sarris, you should read Hart because he knows Greek and I think he will challenge your view. As for self taught I don’t care I would go to a doctor that is self taught as long as he is good. You see truth is truth no matter if one is self taught or went to some place of learning, you really need to get out of the world system that lifts up knowledge above truth. All truth is Gods truth.

I have read snippets from all of them here when they were quoted as the ultimate Bible experts. Ilaria Ramelli has been quoted so many times here I refer to her as the high priestess of UR.
Here is what Ramelli claimed Origen said about "aionios."

"But even the aiónes will come to an end, Origen tells us: “After aiónios life a leap will take place and all will pass from the aeons to the Father, who is beyond aiónios life. For Christ is Life, but the Father, who is ‘greater than Christ,’ is greater than life” (Comm. in Io 13.3; quoted in Ramelli, p. 160).
Sometimes Eternity Ain’t Forever: Aiónios and the Universalist Hope​

And here is what Origen actually said.

Origen Commentary On The Gospel Of John Book Thirteen
(18) For, as there, the bridegroom leaps upon souls that are more noble-natured and divine, called mountains, and skips upon the inferior ones called hills, so here the fountain that appears in the one who drinks of the water that Jesus gives leaps into eternal life.[John 4:13-14]
(19) And after eternal life, perhaps it will also leap into the Father who is beyond eternal life. For Christ is life; but he who is greater than Christ is greater than life.20 Pg. 23​

In this quote Origen, same document, gives us a definition of "aionios."

(59) He is not wrong, however, when he says that the water that the Savior gives is of his spirit and power.
(60) And he has explained the statement, “But he shall not thirst forever,” as follows with these very words: For the life he gives is eternal and never perishes, as, indeed, does the first life which comes from the well; the life he gives remains. For the grace and the gift of our Savior is not to be taken away, nor is it consumed, nor does it perish, when one partakes of it.
(61) He would be correct when he grants that the first life perishes if he meant that life which is according to the letter, when it seeks and discovers the life according to the Spirit by the removal of the veil. But, if he is accusing the ancient words of passing out of existence all together, it is clear that he does this because he does not perceive that those good words contain the shadow of future things.​

Note "Aionios" life "never perishes, 2x" "remains," "not taken away,""not consumed." Origen does not think "aionios" means "age(s).
And please refrain from even trying to tell me what either one really meant. I have been speaking English for about 3/4 century and do not require any instruction.

 

[RDKirk]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Satan doesn't get those people, those people go with Satan.

 

[eleos1954]

That is what the bible says, base theology on the bible, not human opinions.

The plan of salvation was put in place before creation, He knew what man would do and provide the way (through Christ) that one might be redeemed.

Ephesians 1:3-6

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

 

[TedT]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

ImCo, He 'got' very few.

The number of Satan's angels flung with him to the earth in the war in heaven was a miniscule part of the total number of people created who sang YHWH's praises when they saw this proof of HIS divinity and eternal power, Job 38:7 with Rom 1:18-20.

But Satan also flung (same word denoting hostile violence) 1/3 of all the angels (messengers, a job description, not a race or type of being) to the earth just before his great war. That they were sinful is obvious from his power over them but why did he not keep them to fight for him? Why did he act in the same aggressive way toward them as Michael and the holy angels did toward him and his demons?

I contend that though these angels were sinful, they were at heart loyal to YHWH and would not fight against HIM... Who could they be?

The Satanic fall describes the choice by faith, not proof, that some angels made to rebuke YHWH as a liar and a false god, that is, not better nor higher than anyone else with no power over heaven or hell, which, in its fullness was the unforgivable sin. As such they were immediately condemned to the outer darkness, passed over for salvation and the heavenly marriage they were created to enjoy.

Those who accepted YHWH by faith, their unproven hope, to be their GOD and Saviour from sin were elected, ie, chosen, to be saved from all sin and to become HIS Bride in the heavenly marriage.

But when GOD called HIS elect to come out from among the condemned ones in their hearts so the judgement of the unforgivable eternally evil sinners could be started, some of the elect feeling safe from hell, took their stand against HIS call, idolizing the now demonic angels over their GOD, became sinful at that instant of rebellion, needing redemption by the blood of Christ and sanctification by the Spirit to be returned to GOD heaven ready.

These fallen elect became His sheep (elect) gone astray into sin, the good (elect) but sinful seed, the prodigal (elect) sons of His kingdom, etc. I contend that these were the sinful angels Satan flung to the earth, to Sheol inside the Earth, to be sown, moved, not created, by the Son of Man into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

In this scenario, even, let's arbitrarily suggest, 1% of all creation could have corrupted 1/3 of the rest of creation leaving 2/3 to serve as GOD's holy elect angels, ie, messengers.

So how does the few Satanic fallen become the many who do not find the gate while the many fallen elect who will be saved become the few who do find the gate?

The fallen Satanic flood this world and the sinful people of the kingdom are trickled into this world a few at a time so that from the point of view of life on earth, the few who find redemption, though more in actual numbers than the many reprobate, appear slowly and spread out over time as if they were fewer. Thus the visible 1% could be called greater than the hidden 33%.

 

[Blade]

How can John say that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil if Jesus only gets a small fraction of what he paid for and satan gets the majority? Or does he?

Fraction? "After these things I looked, and this is what I saw: a vast multitude which no one could count, [gathered] from every nation and from all the tribes and peoples and languages [of the earth], standing before the throne and before the Lamb (Christ), dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands;"

Would seem before Christ came the Jewish people knew the truth yet Christ said "if He had not come they would have no sin. Christ also said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains."

When it comes to truth (Christ) God is not like man and looks at it vagally. Anyway most are blind. Salvation is not mans definition. Then we break that down to each one of us. So in this case whos "truth" is God holding man to? Most are blind praise GOD! Truth ..Satan and 1/3 that fell they know without doubt who GOD is. They stood in all this glory power and walked away. They are not blind we are. Not many know GOD in all His power and glory nor ever tasted of the powers to come. Those are few In my view.

So the works Christ has destroyed. So sin and don't repent they do the works of the devil.