-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
1+1+1=1 or 1+1+1 =3
- Thread starter noormaan
- Start date
Kas
Veteran
- Feb 8, 2004
- 1,592
- 40
- 43
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Bookofknowledge said:
thankyou...that is the nicest thing a Moslem has ever said to me!
However, Islam has for the most part up until recently been understood as being contained within four legal schools and an established sunnah...the gate of Itjihad were said to have been closed! within this world view (not talking about Shia and other divisions within Islam for the moement) the Quran was said to be eternal...that is that it never came into being...and will never pass out of being!
Telll that to the Bahais....however, I refer you to the staments above...this is not in keeping with the orthodox teachings of the Islamic sunnah!
are you a Shia?
Kas.
Upvote
0
Kas
Veteran
- Feb 8, 2004
- 1,592
- 40
- 43
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
This problem however is one of perception! Many Christians try to give answers to questions that they are not qualified for...hence the diverse respoces../.however...those with authority have given a clear answer...the rest of us need to parrot that answer!
However...dispite how this perception of confusion comes about in no way invalidates the claim its selof...becouse something can not be understood...it does not follow that that same things is impossible!
Kas(who thinks you can agree with him on that)
Upvote
0
I am pretty sure christians have a concept of shirk, to them its called "polythiesm". But to muslims, what christians practices is "polythiesm". Anyways, from that little aside, nothing can be part of allah (SWT) nature, allah (SWT) is unique. Creations are given qualities of god (SWT) to a MUCH lesser degree (e.g. mercy, love, compassion), but we are still not part of allah (SWT) "nature" (sorry, but i really dont know what you mean by nature). The quran is a creation, a creation of god (SWT) which he has promised to keep eternal till the day of judgment. I still dont understand how you can equate "God keeping his deen intact" with shirk. This deen probably would never have been "eternal" if it wasnt gods will, and it will continue to be "eternal" as long as god wills it.
As for the mutazilites, no i did not know about them until now, regardless i am not concerned with what sunni's did to them(if they did anything!!!), or thier belief of "beatification", i am only considered with islam. You asking me about mutazilites is like, asking me "have u ever heard what terrorists do around the world today". It is not religion it is politics derived from religion.
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
This might be your opinion, but the answers even by authority figures aren't clear abroad. If it were plain and clear abroad then the topic wouldn't be hottly debated.
Of course being uncomprehendable doesn't make something invalid. If that were the case many people would claim much of mathetimatics is invalid
Much objection has to do with alleged contradictory statements (That I've seen and heard) and variant connatations of select words & titles (Often times an entire disagreement is going on because both sides failed to do the most important thing. GET CLEAR ON THE RELEVANT CONCEPTS! When a muslim hears a christian state "Jesus IS God" they take this statement under a completely different understanding then the christian stating it, thus generating a misunderstanding. At least this is what I have come up with based on the debates and discussions I've taken place in.)
One of these problems can be cleared up (Words and Titles) if they, the relevant concepts, are properly defined. That leaves alleged contradictory states, these will just have to be discussed out using the already defined concepts.
peace
Upvote
0
originally posted by humblemuslim
That is a nonsensical statement. Comprehension is partly subjective to the mind of the individual. It would depend upon numerous factors. You do not have to have a perfect model of something to realize what it is. Have you heard of allegories, similies, metaphors, and other devices used to relate things that are often not fully explainable by direct words? Since everything belief system has things that are not fully understood or explainable, would it be fair that I viewed you beliefs in a similar way?
More irrational stuff. You seem to lack in depth of thoughts on this subject. You're saying that since one can not have a perfect picture of something, no attempt should be made to form a picture of it with given information. Well, we just as well shut down NASA, because they do not know of all the unseen particles that they study in their acceleration chambers. I have never seen evidence of that stopping them from continually searching to understand what they are encountering.
As far as the Jews: God never gave them information on His makeup of ONEness. He only told them that He was ONE God. He, however, did give them new revelations concerning His attributes that previous generations did not know of. He gave his most recent revelation to not only Jews, but to Gentiles to complete His work of redemption. It is not impossible to see why God revealed more of His nature at the completion of His work through Jesus. If God ended His revelation with Judah, the Gentiles would have been left out of the plan of salvation if one was to follow this logically. And seeing that the OT has been silent for over 2000 years, it speaks more volumes of Judah as not being the endall.
I do not know where you have been, but I do not think that any Christian has ever said that the Trinity model has been perfect. It was a conception of people to attempt to explain their beliefs to those who tried to show God as something other than what they believed Him to be (heretics). The Creeds are not part of the scriptures; so you would be hardpressed to see it other way.
One can normally tell when the Spirit of God is speaking to them. We get impressions in our mind and a conviction on what is in our thoughts. It motivates us to respond to whatever the impression is. Our own selfish desires are replaced with unselfish desires that always exhalt God. We know this because we do as the Bible states: test the spirits to see if they are of God. We use the test to confirm what we have encountered is God's leading and not the oppressor (satan). This requires active listening to God and submission to the Holy Spirit's guidance. Here is one set of scripture which helps to explain what I am saying:
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
It has more to do with your not willing to allow non-Islamic thoughts to permeate your mind. I could very well say the same thing about some things that you try to explain about Islam. The area of concern to me is whether you are genuinely trying to understand or not. You do not have to adopt a view in order to understand it.
For some, it is difficult to explain, but many of us have given you more than enough explanations to understand what we mean. There is no true excuse on your part; so, don't play dumb on us. You, as a Muslim are conditioned to not believe. The spirit of God will not force you to understand if you do not allow yourself to be humbled to be taught. Nothing is impossible to understand if God is your teacher. You may not agree, but at least you know.
That is a nonsensical statement. Comprehension is partly subjective to the mind of the individual. It would depend upon numerous factors. You do not have to have a perfect model of something to realize what it is. Have you heard of allegories, similies, metaphors, and other devices used to relate things that are often not fully explainable by direct words? Since everything belief system has things that are not fully understood or explainable, would it be fair that I viewed you beliefs in a similar way?
More irrational stuff. You seem to lack in depth of thoughts on this subject. You're saying that since one can not have a perfect picture of something, no attempt should be made to form a picture of it with given information. Well, we just as well shut down NASA, because they do not know of all the unseen particles that they study in their acceleration chambers. I have never seen evidence of that stopping them from continually searching to understand what they are encountering.
As far as the Jews: God never gave them information on His makeup of ONEness. He only told them that He was ONE God. He, however, did give them new revelations concerning His attributes that previous generations did not know of. He gave his most recent revelation to not only Jews, but to Gentiles to complete His work of redemption. It is not impossible to see why God revealed more of His nature at the completion of His work through Jesus. If God ended His revelation with Judah, the Gentiles would have been left out of the plan of salvation if one was to follow this logically. And seeing that the OT has been silent for over 2000 years, it speaks more volumes of Judah as not being the endall.
I do not know where you have been, but I do not think that any Christian has ever said that the Trinity model has been perfect. It was a conception of people to attempt to explain their beliefs to those who tried to show God as something other than what they believed Him to be (heretics). The Creeds are not part of the scriptures; so you would be hardpressed to see it other way.
One can normally tell when the Spirit of God is speaking to them. We get impressions in our mind and a conviction on what is in our thoughts. It motivates us to respond to whatever the impression is. Our own selfish desires are replaced with unselfish desires that always exhalt God. We know this because we do as the Bible states: test the spirits to see if they are of God. We use the test to confirm what we have encountered is God's leading and not the oppressor (satan). This requires active listening to God and submission to the Holy Spirit's guidance. Here is one set of scripture which helps to explain what I am saying:
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
It has more to do with your not willing to allow non-Islamic thoughts to permeate your mind. I could very well say the same thing about some things that you try to explain about Islam. The area of concern to me is whether you are genuinely trying to understand or not. You do not have to adopt a view in order to understand it.
For some, it is difficult to explain, but many of us have given you more than enough explanations to understand what we mean. There is no true excuse on your part; so, don't play dumb on us. You, as a Muslim are conditioned to not believe. The spirit of God will not force you to understand if you do not allow yourself to be humbled to be taught. Nothing is impossible to understand if God is your teacher. You may not agree, but at least you know.
Upvote
0
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.'
where does it imply here that jesus is God? this only makes you question people who didnt think jesus existed. as we know, muhammed glorified jesus.
what i cant understand is the constant seperation of Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit in name. why not just call them 'God' if thats what you think they are?
also,. the quran is not a creation of God. it is the WORD of God. the real question should not be 'is the Quran eternal' but ', is Gods WORD eternal?'
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.'
where does it imply here that jesus is God? this only makes you question people who didnt think jesus existed. as we know, muhammed glorified jesus.
what i cant understand is the constant seperation of Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit in name. why not just call them 'God' if thats what you think they are?
also,. the quran is not a creation of God. it is the WORD of God. the real question should not be 'is the Quran eternal' but ', is Gods WORD eternal?'
Upvote
0
originally posted by thestudent7000
The question was about how do we know if we are hearing from God or not. Mohammad glorified Jesus as per Qu'ran, but he does not have the testimony that comes from the Bible. If he really understood Jesus per Bible, he would feel naked in his accessment. Also, he would look foolishly in comparison.
The Qu'ranic version of Jesus is nonthreatening in the spiritual realm. It makes good only for great stories of amazement in His abilities as a prophet. It has no redeeming qualities for mankind; therefore from a Christian perspective is very weak. I am more concerned about my salvation than a good reading and adulation. No offense, but save that for those who want a story to read when they go to sleep at night. Consider it a bedtime story.
Jesus is God and man simultaneously. We can not comprehend God in our limited condition, but that does not keep us from understanding Him in the spiritual realm. He reveals to us through the Holy Spirit what we need to know. Your intellect alone can not suffice in understanding. You must rely upon God, Himself, to teach you this mystery. God never made it a point for us to know Him in His form. He only put emphasis in knowing Him in His relationship with us. That is why Christians generally do have such a hangup as you Muslims do in relating to Him in this fashion.
Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus, and likewise with the Father and Holy Spirit. To say, for example, that God is the Father would leave out the Son and the Spirit. Their personalities are significant in who God is and can not be neglected or separated. They share the same attributes but different personalities. If you relate to either, you are essentially relating to the other as each person testifies to the other. That is part of their ONEness. Each person is distinct but yet not distinct. This is part of the mystery that human philosophy can not come to grips with. God is not limited to our time and space and therefore, can have attributes that we would not be able to understand or comprehend in totality.
Even for you as a Muslim, what does it really mean to say that God is ONE. Do you really know what that ONEness means? The answer is NO. You are really no better off than I am in comprehension; so, it would suffice to me that you not put so much emphasis on trying to define God and put your time and effort in trying to understanding who He is in relationship to you.
The Qu'ran can not be eternal because its complete contents does not speak specifically of eternal things, unless you want to include Mohammad and his actions as eternal. A more realistic example of God's eternal word would be God giving the Law to Moses. Moses only wrote it down ver batum and gave it to Israel. He had no part in its construction as Mohammad had in the Qu'ran. Moses was also bound to it unlike Mohammad who was permitted to influence the Qu'ran by allowing certain parts of it to be changed due to circumstantial events of the day. One such instance was when He was fighting a battle. He was given orders to fight pagans. That does not sound eternal to me. To me, it would make more sense to say that the Qu'ran is not eternal but its teachings could possibly be eternal; although I do not believe in the Qu'ran. I would welcome your feedback on this.
The question was about how do we know if we are hearing from God or not. Mohammad glorified Jesus as per Qu'ran, but he does not have the testimony that comes from the Bible. If he really understood Jesus per Bible, he would feel naked in his accessment. Also, he would look foolishly in comparison.
The Qu'ranic version of Jesus is nonthreatening in the spiritual realm. It makes good only for great stories of amazement in His abilities as a prophet. It has no redeeming qualities for mankind; therefore from a Christian perspective is very weak. I am more concerned about my salvation than a good reading and adulation. No offense, but save that for those who want a story to read when they go to sleep at night. Consider it a bedtime story.
Jesus is God and man simultaneously. We can not comprehend God in our limited condition, but that does not keep us from understanding Him in the spiritual realm. He reveals to us through the Holy Spirit what we need to know. Your intellect alone can not suffice in understanding. You must rely upon God, Himself, to teach you this mystery. God never made it a point for us to know Him in His form. He only put emphasis in knowing Him in His relationship with us. That is why Christians generally do have such a hangup as you Muslims do in relating to Him in this fashion.
Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus, and likewise with the Father and Holy Spirit. To say, for example, that God is the Father would leave out the Son and the Spirit. Their personalities are significant in who God is and can not be neglected or separated. They share the same attributes but different personalities. If you relate to either, you are essentially relating to the other as each person testifies to the other. That is part of their ONEness. Each person is distinct but yet not distinct. This is part of the mystery that human philosophy can not come to grips with. God is not limited to our time and space and therefore, can have attributes that we would not be able to understand or comprehend in totality.
Even for you as a Muslim, what does it really mean to say that God is ONE. Do you really know what that ONEness means? The answer is NO. You are really no better off than I am in comprehension; so, it would suffice to me that you not put so much emphasis on trying to define God and put your time and effort in trying to understanding who He is in relationship to you.
The Qu'ran can not be eternal because its complete contents does not speak specifically of eternal things, unless you want to include Mohammad and his actions as eternal. A more realistic example of God's eternal word would be God giving the Law to Moses. Moses only wrote it down ver batum and gave it to Israel. He had no part in its construction as Mohammad had in the Qu'ran. Moses was also bound to it unlike Mohammad who was permitted to influence the Qu'ran by allowing certain parts of it to be changed due to circumstantial events of the day. One such instance was when He was fighting a battle. He was given orders to fight pagans. That does not sound eternal to me. To me, it would make more sense to say that the Qu'ran is not eternal but its teachings could possibly be eternal; although I do not believe in the Qu'ran. I would welcome your feedback on this.
Upvote
0
Kas
Veteran
- Feb 8, 2004
- 1,592
- 40
- 43
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Indeed we do...but we also refer to them as Father Son and Holy Spirit...depnding on whether we are speaking about one of the persons of the Godhead or the whole Godhead!
Kas notes that even the Moslems can not agree on what they believe concerning the nature of the of the Quran in relation to Allah...
Is the Quran a creation or is it not a creation?
We Christians do not disagree about the Trinity (simply becouse you can not be a Christian if you do not believe in the Trinity) its just that some are better able to explain the idea than others...it is hotly debated not becouse it is unclear...but because of people do not want to accept this as a truth due to the other claims that go with it! (Christians among themselves debate nature of the relationship amongst the persons...but no one debates that there is one GOD who is undevided and indivisble, without partner or helper, lord of the worlds and master of the day of judgment, ONE GOD YAHWEH A BLESSED TRINITY, He who is above the thoughts of men and most highly to be praised, Glory to GOD in the highest and peace to His people on earth!
Kas.
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
We have a misunderstanding on what I am referring to as "Clear". They indeed have one position and they can clearly proclaim it to the world, but their position itself is not clear.
Point being: There is a difference between clearly having a position and having a clear position. The church clearly has a position, but it isn't a clear one from the view point of people that do not currently accept the Trinity for whatever reasons.
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Why is this nonsensical? God is like none other, you can't compare God even to concepts like love that are commonly expressed in language using similies, metaphors, etc. (Things you mentioned). To say that God can be expressed inperfectly in a similar manner to these concepts is nonsensical. The only things that are available are attributes of God: Omni-Present-Potent-Scient Etc. And these concepts themselves are uncomprehendable. No one can comprehend Infinity, unlimited. So in mathematics a symbol is commonly used to derive an understanding only that this concept is in play, not an understanding on the concept itself.
The word God, JVWH, Allah, etc. (Whatever language, whatever title) given to God is somewhat being used like the symbol attribited to infinity. You see these words and think "Ah the concept of GOD is being mentioned here" having an understanding of what is being mentioned, but no understanding on the actual concept. The concept being all the uncomprendable things that we package together and label as GOD.
Point: Muslims and Jews as well are satisfied with the "Symbol" that represents GOD and don't attempt to understand what or who GOD is in essence or being. They believe in GOD but don't place imperfect models to explain GOD in any sort of comprehendable manner. Christians on the other hand seem to not be satisfied with just the "Symbol" they want to dig deeper and attempt to understand GOD's essence and being. And even though they are unable to have a perfect model they are satified with an imperfect one. Why? I guess so GOD seems more personal to them. GOD is something they can understand (Even though it isn't even in a perfect manner). And why Jesus? Maybe so GOD again seems more personal and more like "ONE OF US" (Human).
I'm not even attempting to determine or suggest who is right and who is wrong. Each side has their own motivations to what they believe and do. I guess it all boils down to Muslims and Jews placing GOD beyond understanding and comprehension being perfectly happy believing in GOD without understanding or any sort of model attempting to understand GOD. Christians aren't. This is simply the difference. The difference alone doesn't reveal who is incorrect, but other things suggest error.
You can view my beliefs any way you wish, but I'd be curious as to which uncomprehendable item you are referring to.
How about you focus more on the topic and less on personal attacks, eh?
Yes this is my view, you seem to be very closed-minded of this view.
Now you have made a faulty comparison. Being ignorant and having an uncomprendable entity are two different things. What NASA studies is seemingly finite and with the proper research can become another thing that we learn. You are misusing my view to include ignorance.
Here is my rebuttle example:
If Bob didn't know calculus and I teach him calculus I cured his ignorance. I would be unable to teach Bob what GOD is by essence and being (Anything I state will be imperfect and a bad representation of the truth). Therefore his ignorance is uncured and will remain as such.
Point: To attempt an understanding on a concept that is uncomprehendable is a waste of time, because the goal of attempting an understanding, curing ignorance, will never be achieved.
Don't come to me with time arguments "More than 2000 years". Psh, you know very well that time isn't an issue for God. The Jews wouldn't care if it took a Billion years before their messiah comes (Since they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah) and Christians in a similar manner wouldn't care if it took a Billion years for Jesus to return for the 2nd coming.
So are you telling me Oneness isn't enough? If so this confirms my hypothesis above that, at least you seem to be, christians are attempting to make GOD personal and something they can understand, in essence moralize GOD it nearly appears. That is the only way to fully understand GOD, you must moralize Him. Otherwise a full understanding is unavaiable. But I don't think Christians fully moralize GOD like the pagans often times did and still do, they just half moralize GOD so GOD seems more personal and understandable (Almost like a balance between Paganism and Monotheism it seems; not purely one or the other)
I merely pointing an agreement out. Must you be so harsh and seemingly alittle arogant in your response? At least this is the vibe I receive from the words "I do not know where you have been" as if you think my statement is stupid because you personally believe it to be obvious.
Upvote
0
B
Bevlina
Guest
And why not Jesus? Why cannot God send a Begotten Son to this earth in order to save mankind? Is God so limited that He cannot do this? It's so easy to place God in a little box and limit His abilities. So easy to say this, and that. But we seem to forget that we are speaking about the CREATOR OF MANKIND here.
God's love for this earth is obvious. He created it. His love for mankind is obvious. He created us. So, if He can do all that ... why NOT Jesus in order to bring people to a closer understanding of the Love of God?
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Judging by the context you supplied I'm getting a different impression of the meaning of the verses here. I was asking for the personal interaction of the Holy Spirit between everyday people, you and I. Although this COULD certainly be one application, a more prominent theme is the one of prophets and false prophets: If a prophet says Jesus is God in the flesh he is inspired by the Holy Spirit: If not he is inspired by the spirit of the antichrist. This has nothing to do with how a person such as you or I could know if the Holy Spirit is guiding OUR conscience. This is merely a passage dealing with how we are supposed to tell if someone else is being guided by the holy spirit. And by this citeria alone there is alot of space for mistake. What if some nut proclaims Jesus is God in the flesh then starts making up things past that without any guidance for God?
You did however offer one bit on the topic I was asking for: "Our own selfish desires are replaced with unselfish desires that always exhalt God."
I ask another two questions:
Does the Holy Spirit aid those who do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior?
What of people that perform unselish acts for God that do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior?(And this question is only to be answered if you respond no to the first question)
I'm open minded on the topic. And I can assure you your first statement "It has more to do with your not willing to allow non-Islamic thoughts to permeate your mind." Has nothing to do with it for me personally and for others I would suggest that it is not as major a role as you proclaim it to be, assuring you that there are closeminded people everywhere.
Oh really? I will say this: I have heard more than enough responses that vary so greatly that if placed together among 10 such responses I've received in the past (Some even from the same forum boards) they would all contradict one another. Infact the variant responses are so disgustingly variant and mixed and matched that I am unable to distinguish a truthful response. The truth seems to change from person to person.
And once again you make this a personal attack as well as exihibiting alittle arogance in your response.
I am not "playing Stupid" and I think the response above is more than a valid "Excuse". But it seems I am having a conversation with a person who is closed-minded and has already put a sterotypical label on me. Makes me sad
Also makes me very unattracted to even learning about Christianity from such responses 
Yet the only reason I continue is because I continually tell myself that all Christians aren't like this, and I know some...but there aren't many that I've met.
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
On the contray. You see we are coming from two different points of view. Until you and I accept this we will never learn anything from one another nor will our conversation make any progress, which is the point I hope. To make progress.
You say "Is God so limited..." You seem to believe that God becoming a human in flesh makes Him so powerful and unlimited etc.
I however see it in another opposite context. By saying that GOD almighty with Infinite attributes is even able to humble Himself to a state of that is limited (Which is exihibited several times in the Bible talking about Jesus) is to say that God is not what God says He is. Therefore if God did infact come down as human Flesh I see two possiblities:
1. God is not infinite and He lied
2. God didn't do it, because it contradicts His very attributes.
Ironically I see you putting God is a box and Limiting Him (As you should be able to tell from above)
In essence this boils down to a famous question:
Can God create a rock He is unable to lift,destory,etc.? (A rock that entirely over-powers Him)
Answer: If God is omnipotent (All-Powerful, infinity so) then the answer is NO. If this task was possible then God isn't all-powerful, as there would be a finite limit that is being passed.
You might see this as a limitation, but I see it in another sense.
Peace
Upvote
0
B
Bevlina
Guest
To me, God is infinite, He is God! He can do anything He wants to do. There is good on this earth, and there is evil. Evil must be destroyed somehow. So, He chose a better way. When the moment was right He sent His own Son, in the flesh, and Jesus opened a window for everyone who chooses to believe. Once we allow God to control us, and the Holy Spirit to lead us, and teach us; once we become pliable and able to be moulded like clay in the Potter's Hand; once we throw off the religious ties that bind and enslave; once we accept that we are a person chosen by God to Believe in Him through His Son Jesus, then, and only then, can anyone understand what the Holy Spirit really does do - and just who God really is.
Jesus Christ Is Lord. amen.
Jesus Christ Is Lord. amen.
Upvote
0
LittleNipper
Contributor
- Mar 9, 2005
- 9,011
- 174
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
The whole reason for Creation was for GOD's glory and not ours. Creation was not even for our benifit---that is not to say GOD does not love us. I feel that GOD's intent all along was to experiance HIS creation for HIMSELF as a part of it. This GOD could never do UNLESS HE became one of us. Now GOD actually knows want it is like to be born, to have a mother, and friends. GOD knows what it is actually like to be both loved and hated, to be hungry and to feast, and to die... Once GOD merely understood these things and their consequences-----now HE has experienced them for HIMSELF.
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
This is where we disagree. You believe Omnipotence means God can do "ANYTHING" or "EVERYTHING" I believe this means God has "INFINITE POWER" or "POWER WITH BOUNDS" therefore making actions that would cause a limit or bound impossible.
Guess we'll have to leave it at that.
peace
Upvote
0
humblemuslim
I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Are you telling me GOD wasn't all-knowing as to the experience of birth? Or the experience of having parents? etc? I strongly disagree. Even though God has no parents nor was born, God knows exactly what they are like if God is truly all-knowing.
I'm sorry but your composition here is to my distaste due to statements which I feel are greatly limiting GOD's knowledge to a human persective.
I also dislike this statement: "I feel that GOD's intent all along was to experiance HIS creation for HIMSELF as a part of it. This GOD could never do UNLESS HE became one of us."
This supposed intent doesn't settle well with me.
peace
Upvote
0
NEWS FLASH!
God does NOT love this world!!
One day the prophet muhammed was with his companinons and they saw a dead, half eaten lamb. He asked his companions if it would be of any use to any of them. they all replied no. He replied that the world means less to God than that lamb does to you.
We are only here for a short time as a TEST. Allah does not love this world and states very clearly that one day it will be destroyed. It is NOTHING for Him to say 'Be' and created another one just like it.
what God loves is people who BELIEVE and WORSHIP Him ONLY.
also, God can do ANYTHING and has no limits but do you believe that God is a jealous God? do you believe that God is the only One that can be PROUD? these are two attributes which belong to God solely. would you call these defecencies? of course not.would God appear as a man and allow for Himself to be killed? NO!! God is PROUD! He created EVERYTHING! so these 'limits' are not set by man, but by God. in the Quran He states clearly that no part of His creation should be made a partner with Him. Jesus was just another of His creations, born or a woman after all!! christians, where is your RESPECT for God?! You worship a man who spent 9 months in a womb! THINK!! jesus ATE and SLEPT! THINK! where is your RESPECT?
also, please show me where Jesus ever explicitly say that He was God? i still can not find such a verse.
God does NOT love this world!!
One day the prophet muhammed was with his companinons and they saw a dead, half eaten lamb. He asked his companions if it would be of any use to any of them. they all replied no. He replied that the world means less to God than that lamb does to you.
We are only here for a short time as a TEST. Allah does not love this world and states very clearly that one day it will be destroyed. It is NOTHING for Him to say 'Be' and created another one just like it.
what God loves is people who BELIEVE and WORSHIP Him ONLY.
also, God can do ANYTHING and has no limits but do you believe that God is a jealous God? do you believe that God is the only One that can be PROUD? these are two attributes which belong to God solely. would you call these defecencies? of course not.would God appear as a man and allow for Himself to be killed? NO!! God is PROUD! He created EVERYTHING! so these 'limits' are not set by man, but by God. in the Quran He states clearly that no part of His creation should be made a partner with Him. Jesus was just another of His creations, born or a woman after all!! christians, where is your RESPECT for God?! You worship a man who spent 9 months in a womb! THINK!! jesus ATE and SLEPT! THINK! where is your RESPECT?
also, please show me where Jesus ever explicitly say that He was God? i still can not find such a verse.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
