1+1+1=1 or 1+1+1 =3

[peaceful soul]

Hi Alchemist,

thanks for your long posting.



That's exactly where my problem is. Basically you're saying that being part of that trinity isn't possible without being the trinity as a whole, i. e. there are no "parts of god", only the whole (sorry for the wording ).
But at the same time, elsewhere in your posting you try to explain how the "pieces" of the trinity are in fact all just pieces of a greater whole.



Forgive me for possibly sounding cynical, but as I see it you're basically saying "I don't understand it, but it's logical". If you don't understand it, how then can you say that it is indeed logical?

You know, it all seems to boil down to "It's a mystery" everytime I hear about it. That's not bad in and of itself, but I find it quite... amusing... that so many believers nonetheless try to explain something they admittedly don't understand themselves.

However, at least you really tried to explain it. Thanks again.

Since God is outside of time and space, we can not comprehend Him in totality. We can only comprehend Him by what the scripture states and through revealtions given throughout our studies.

God does not completely fit man's logic/philosophy - namely Aristotle. The Son is God, but God is not the Son, and likewise with the Father and Holy Spirit. Each person is distinct but not distinct simultaneously. When we refer the the Son, we simultaneously refer to the Father and Spirit. How this is so is beyond our understanding. The point of our relationship with God is trust and faithfulness - not whether we can exactly define God. Even if we could, that would not create a personal relationship. Knowledge alone will not make us wiser with God or closer to Him. The Bible does not put any emphasis on knowing God intellectually. However, it does make the point of us knowing Him intimately within a personal relationship and spiritually. That is what matters.

The fact is that we do understand through our personal relationship with God. As I said, we know enough through scripture and our spiritual relationship that we can have trusting relationship with God. It is the relationship that we should really care about. Look at it this way: we trust a lot of things that we do not understand in our daily lives. We come to accept them without sufficient proof or no proof at all. We just know that they work. We may question how they work, but that does not keep us from taking them in faith.

 

[thestudent7000]

Tocis,

do not judge Islam by one or two muslims. Judge Islam according to what YOU read in the Quran and what YOU have found out about the Prophet Mohammed,pbuh.

i suggest you pick up a biography of the prophet if you havent already done so.
id reccomend one by Martin Lings, Muhammed. you can find it on Amazon

peace

 

[Kas]

There is no mystery in the word "We"


Here write down the name if you are true in your claim

Allah (The God) + _the Quran________ = WE

the Quran...is said to eternal...this is blatent shirk...but hey lets not let a bit of double standards get in the way of all the name calling!!

 

[Kas]

so is it accurate to call jesus the son of mary?

and in your opinon is jesus the LITERAL BEGOTTEN SON of God as in i am the BEGOTTEN son of my father?

Clearly a proper education in the Englsih language is necessary...

begotten means to come from...it does not necessarily refer to sexual act, it certainly does not in the context of Christ our Lord!

GOD is singular...Christians imply no plurality of gods (which just for clarification is a plural, and has nothing to do with royalty)

Now will you concede the following based upon a very clear statement of faith.

Christians believe in one GOD who exists without division, or seperation, as Fther Son and Holy Spirit!

Or are you just wanting to have an argument for the sake of argument!

Kas.

 

[Kas]

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

GOLD star to S walch for correctly identifying the answer...and the correct mathmatical analogy to Christian beliefs! Go to the front of the class!

Kas.

 

[thestudent7000]

Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)

so please tell me, if mary can be called the 'mother of jesus'
can she also we called 'Mary mother of god'?

and yes the laws and guidance in the Quran is eternal. The quran contains only the Word of God afterall. so please tell me, does Allah change His Word?

 

[thestudent7000]

'Christians believe in one GOD who exists without division, or seperation, as Fther Son and Holy Spirit!'

does anyone else see a contradiction here apart from me?

if i was to slice a cake into three 'parts', what have i just done if not 'seperate' the cake?

 

[Kas]

'Christians believe in one GOD who exists without division, or seperation, as Fther Son and Holy Spirit!'

does anyone else see a contradiction here apart from me?

if i was to slice a cake into three 'parts', what have i just done if not 'seperate' the cake?

GOD is not a pie!

 

[Kas]

Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)

so please tell me, if mary can be called the 'mother of jesus'
can she also we called 'Mary mother of god'?

and yes the laws and guidance in the Quran is eternal. The quran contains only the Word of God afterall. so please tell me, does Allah change His Word?

Indeed it is accurate to say that Mary is the mother of Jesus! Also it is accurate to call Mary the mother of GOD! However, before you try and make up aa polemic perhaps you should investigate the origins and thoughts behind these terms!

Kas.

Also....what of the charge of Shirk...Is the Quran eternal?

 

[ghazirizvi]

Also....what of the charge of Shirk...Is the Quran eternal?

I see no charge shirk in your statement.

 

[thestudent7000]

what is SHIRK if not seperating God into 'parts'?

so you tell me kas, is that not shirk?

tell me kas, do hindus deal in SHIRK?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Allah (The God) + _the Quran________ = WE

the Quran...is said to eternal...this is blatent shirk...but hey lets not let a bit of double standards get in the way of all the name calling!!

Allah (The God) +________ = WE

What exactly are you trying to explain kas? what is blatent shirk? double standards? can you explain in detail so I can understand...?

 

[ghazirizvi]

Kas feels that since muslims call the Quran "Eternal" we are commiting shirk. Because we are attributing one of the Qualities of God (SWT) to the Quran. Is that correct Kas?

 

[peaceful soul]

what is SHIRK if not seperating God into 'parts'?

so you tell me kas, is that not shirk?

tell me kas, do hindus deal in SHIRK?

God is not in parts. You are trying to apply finite human logic to define God who is infite in complexity. Every time you try to do this, human logic will fail at some point. God does not have to consult human philosophers to ask for their permission to exist in a certain form.

God does not exist in time and space. He can enter into time and space while retaining the properties that make Him uniquely God. This is why we can say that Jesus was both God and man simultaneously. When He took on flesh (time/space), He preserved His godliness (supernaturally independent of time/space). God who is supernatural, does not violate laws restricted to time/space (natural). Time/space laws are a subset of God's realm of existance. Man is natural, whereas God is supernatural. The properties of God transcend our time/space limitations. If we could exist outside of time and space, we may be able to comprehend God a lot better. What is so difficult to understand about that?

If you deny God that flexibility, then you have concluded that God has to fit your dogma. Then you run an extremely high risk of reducing God to your world view, which is worthless. You would have impaired your ability to relate to God as He truly exists. I am saying all of this to get you to think above your limitations of saying that God is one in the sense that you can comprehend oneness as being solitary as a pie. If God can be compared to a pie, we would have to look into God's realm to truly understand that pie. The composition of the pie would be different outside of our time/space limit. Would not that seem reasonable? Whatever you do, do not put God into a box.

 

[jlujan69]

or 3 in 1 mean
1/3 +1/3+1/3 = 1 this mean 1/3+1/3 =2/3 >1/3 mean 1+1=2 > 1


or 1+1+1 =big 1
or 3 = 1
sorry i can not understand

"Say not Trinity.. ...Allah is only one God" Surah 4:171 [4]

"They have truly disbelieved those who say God is one of a trinity" Surah 5:73 [5]

Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God the Lord is one." Deut 6:4, Mark 12:29, (see also Romans 3:29-10, James 2:19)

Since you're trying to understand the Trinity using math, why not try all possible formulas, not just addition and subtraction. Posts #3 and #4 illustrate how mathematically you might view the Trinity. Post #3 is the best granted.

 

[jlujan69]

Since ya'll Trinity detractors want to use math to deny Him, please equally consider the mathematical validity of the Trinity in posts #3 and #4. I've yet to see any responses to these posts. Why not, hmmm?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Since ya'll Trinity detractors want to use math to deny Him, please equally consider the mathematical validity of the Trinity in posts #3 and #4. I've yet to see any responses to these posts. Why not, hmmm?

1*1*1 =1

math I can agree it's 1 now tell me what work did holy gost accomplished on earth?

 

[jlujan69]

1*1*1 =1

math I can agree it's 1 now tell me what work did holy gost accomplished on earth?

Genesis tells us that the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep and accomplished all that the Father said. Whenever prophets prophesied, that was the Spirit of God that came upon them in OT times and that indwelt believers in NT times and today. The Holy Spirit is the "workhorse" of the Trinity in that He's the one who convicts the world of sin and judgment and righteousness and gives believers understanding, wisdom, spiritual gifts, convictions, strength, comfort, and joy. If you've ever been witnessed to or had the Gospel preached to you, that stirring in your conscience that you may have fought or rationalized away was the Holy Spirit trying to bring you into a right standing with God.

 

[peaceful soul]

Genesis tells us that the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep and accomplished all that the Father said. Whenever prophets prophesied, that was the Spirit of God that came upon them in OT times and that indwelt believers in NT times and today. The Holy Spirit is the "workhorse" of the Trinity in that He's the one who convicts the world of sin and judgment and righteousness and gives believers understanding, wisdom, spiritual gifts, convictions, strength, comfort, and joy. If you've ever been witnessed to or had the Gospel preached to you, that stirring in your conscience that you may have fought or rationalized away was the Holy Spirit trying to bring you into a right standing with God.

Amen, He definitely opens my eyes daily. Well stated, jlujan69.

 

[kedaman]

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit
1+1=1
My hands are incongruent, but trough pure analysis I cannot distinguish them, but they are incongruent because of my spatial intuition, which effectively limit their being understood as congruent, let alone be the same object. Still my point of view does not limit my spirit in any way, and objects that would otherwise be seen as separate, are one in spirit because they are essentially the same. The Father shows the Son everything he does, and the Son does everything the Father does, and does nothing of himself only what the Father does. Therefore the Father and the Son are one in essense. Furthermore if we are to never unite with the Lord, then we are condemned to eternal separation from him.