• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

“Stop following me! We’re not related!”

Abel Gkiouzelis

The Smile of God in your heart
Feb 25, 2016
543
197
44
Greece
Visit site
✟38,404.00
Country
Greece
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
"On this rock I build my church", said Jesus to the first Catholic Pope. End of discussion.

Now I am not in search.
I was an atheist. I searched and I found!

Also, I'm not here for fights.

If someone wants ask me anything I can answer to him.

The "On this rock I build my church", said Jesus to the St Peter.

St Peter was an Apostle not a Pope. He founded many local churches.

If you want to end the discussion, ok.

With respect, Abel
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Armoured

So is America great again yet?
Site Supporter
Aug 31, 2013
34,362
14,061
✟257,467.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Now I am not in search.
I was an atheist. I searched and I found!

Also, I'm not here for fights.

If someone wants ask me anything I can answer to him.

The "On this rock I build my church", said Jesus to the St Peter.

St Peter was an Apostle not a Pope. He founded many local churches.

If you want to end the discussion, ok.

With respect, Abel
He was an apostle AND the first Pope.
 
Upvote 0

Abel Gkiouzelis

The Smile of God in your heart
Feb 25, 2016
543
197
44
Greece
Visit site
✟38,404.00
Country
Greece
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
He was an apostle AND the first Pope.

Apostle Peter died on 64 or 66 AD, when the local church of Rome was in communion with the local church of Jerusalem etc.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What does the "first pope" discussion have to do with evolution? (or lack thereof)

My grandad's teaching on evolution: "Men sprung from monkeys, only most of them forgot to spring."
 
Upvote 0

Armoured

So is America great again yet?
Site Supporter
Aug 31, 2013
34,362
14,061
✟257,467.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Apostle Peter couldn't have been Pope of Apostle John. Because St Peter died first.

St Peter died on 64-67 AD
St John died on 98 AD
...So? Lots of people died after St Peter. Doesn't stop him being the first Pope.
 
Upvote 0

Abel Gkiouzelis

The Smile of God in your heart
Feb 25, 2016
543
197
44
Greece
Visit site
✟38,404.00
Country
Greece
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
...So? Lots of people died after St Peter. Doesn't stop him being the first Pope.

Please my friend! Ηere was discussed about evolution, atheism & the 30.000 Christian churches.

Not for the first Pope.

I said that only ONE of the 30.000 Christian churches is the First Church founded by Christ, because Christ said: "I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it" (Matthew 16:18).

We don't discuss about the first Pope but about the first Christian Church.

(If you want to discuss about Pope write me in my email gkiouz.abel@gmail.com or in my Inbox-forum, not here).

Thanks.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,844
52,562
Guam
✟5,139,463.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
"On this rock I build my church", said Jesus to the first Catholic Pope. End of discussion.
I don't think Peter ever set foot in Rome.

If my memory serves me correctly, he was Bishop (pastor) of the church at Babylon.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We don't discuss about the first Pope but about the first Christian Church.
Actually that "first church" was the first Messianic Synagogue. Under James (see Acts 15) it was VERY Jewish in character, even in Acts 21 participating in animal sacrifice in the Temple.

If there was a "first pope," or prime patriarch of the Church - it would have been James. When James, Peter and Paul were martyred in the mid 60s ad, Rome was not yet set up as a patriarchy. I don't think that happened until after the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,574
29,121
Pacific Northwest
✟814,688.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Only ONE of the 30.000 Christian churches is the First Church that Christ founded.

Jesus Christ said: "I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it" (Matthew 16:18).

THE CHURCH NEVER APOSTATIZED – EXPLORER OF THE TRUTH

If you want to ask more, you are welcome to:

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/the-ancient-way-eastern-orthodox.145/
The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox

With respect, Abel

That 30,000 number is misleading, as it includes the many autocephelous bodies of the Eastern Orthodox Church as separate "denominations", not to mention it includes the various Rites of the Roman Catholic Church as separate "denominations" as well as counting denominations from different countries, which are nevertheless in communion, as separate "denominations". That means to get that number it considers the Russian Orthodox Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Antiochene Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Church in America, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, the Serbian Orthodox Church, the Church of Finland, the Romanian Orthodox Church, etc all as separate "denominations" in that figure. Likewise it counts Latin Rite Catholics, Chaldean Catholics, Maronite Catholics, and Byzantine Catholics all as separate "denominations" even though they are simply different rites of the Roman Catholic Church. It counts the Church of England, the Episcopal Church (USA), the Anglican Church of Canada, the Anglican Church of Australia, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem & the Middle East, the Scottish Episcopal Church, etc all as separate "denominations" in spite of the fact that, again, these are all part of the same communion, the Anglican Communion. The same then goes to many Protestant churches, in spite of international fellowships and communion, such that Lutherans in the US and Canada, such as the ELCA and ELCIC, are in full communion but that isn't reflected in the 30,000 number. Congregations belonging to the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel--my childhood Pentecostal denomination--are counted as belonging to different churches if they are in different countries, a Foursquare church in the US and a Foursquare church in South Korea would therefore be considered part of two separate churches in spite of the fact that the Foursquare Church is a single denomination.

Further, the reality of the history of the Christian Church has shown that men are quite capable of dividing the Church. I completely agree that Christ's Church never apostatized, Christ's holy catholic Church has remained until the present day--as a Lutheran I confess faith in that one holy catholic Church, but I reject that either Rome or Orthodoxy holds a monopoly on Christ's catholic Church. I say that with all respect to Orthodoxy because I respect the Eastern Churches tremendously, but I reject that "the one true church" is copyrighted by Orthodoxy, the marks of Christ's holy catholic Church is in Christ's Word and Sacraments. Wherever the Word is faithfully preached and the Sacraments rightly administered, there is Christ's Church.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Abel Gkiouzelis

The Smile of God in your heart
Feb 25, 2016
543
197
44
Greece
Visit site
✟38,404.00
Country
Greece
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
That 30,000 number is misleading, as it includes the many autocephelous bodies of the Eastern Orthodox Church as separate "denominations", not to mention it includes the various Rites of the Roman Catholic Church as separate "denominations" as well as counting denominations from different countries, which are nevertheless in communion, as separate "denominations". That means to get that number it considers the Russian Orthodox Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Antiochene Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Church in America, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, the Serbian Orthodox Church, the Church of Finland, the Romanian Orthodox Church, etc all as separate "denominations" in that figure. Likewise it counts Latin Rite Catholics, Chaldean Catholics, Maronite Catholics, and Byzantine Catholics all as separate "denominations" even though they are simply different rites of the Roman Catholic Church. It counts the Church of England, the Episcopal Church (USA), the Anglican Church of Canada, the Anglican Church of Australia, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem & the Middle East, the Scottish Episcopal Church, etc all as separate "denominations" in spite of the fact that, again, these are all part of the same communion, the Anglican Communion. The same then goes to many Protestant churches, in spite of international fellowships and communion, such that Lutherans in the US and Canada, such as the ELCA and ELCIC, are in full communion but that isn't reflected in the 30,000 number. Congregations belonging to the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel--my childhood Pentecostal denomination--are counted as belonging to different churches if they are in different countries, a Foursquare church in the US and a Foursquare church in South Korea would therefore be considered part of two separate churches in spite of the fact that the Foursquare Church is a single denomination.

Further, the reality of the history of the Christian Church has shown that men are quite capable of dividing the Church. I completely agree that Christ's Church never apostatized, Christ's holy catholic Church has remained until the present day--as a Lutheran I confess faith in that one holy catholic Church, but I reject that either Rome or Orthodoxy holds a monopoly on Christ's catholic Church. I say that with all respect to Orthodoxy because I respect the Eastern Churches tremendously, but I reject that "the one true church" is copyrighted by Orthodoxy, the marks of Christ's holy catholic Church is in Christ's Word and Sacraments. Wherever the Word is faithfully preached and the Sacraments rightly administered, there is Christ's Church.

-CryptoLutheran

With the number of 30,000 I mean that there are 30,000 protestant churches.

The Christian doctrines are 4:

Eastern Orthodox Church
Coptic Church
Roman Catholic Church
Protestant Churches (=30,000)

With respect, Abel
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,574
29,121
Pacific Northwest
✟814,688.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
With the number of 30,000 I mean that there are 30,000 protestant churches.

The Christian doctrines are 4:

Eastern Orthodox Church
Coptic Church
Roman Catholic Church
Protestant Churches (=30,000)

With respect, Abel

Except, as stated, there aren't 30,000 Protestant churches, the number there isn't exclusive to Protestantism. As such it's either misleading or else straight up false.

The source of these figures comes from David Barret's World Christian Encyclopedia, which has undergone several revisions since its first publication in 1982. The original figure was around 20,000 in 1982, and in the 2001 edition that number reached around 30,000. However it is not 30,000 distinct Protestant denominations, it is 30,000 denominations, of which over 700 are classified as Eastern Orthodox, and over 200 as Roman Catholic. Because every autocephelous church, rite, or expression of Christianity in each country is being counted as a denomination.

Your claim that there are 30,000 distinct Protestant denominations is a common figure cited on the internet, the problem is that it's not 30,000 Protestant denominations, it's 30,000 Christian denominations, and "denomination" is defined in a very particular way.

You can say there are over 30,000 Christian denominations only if you accept that about 700 of those are Eastern Orthodox denominations. However that isn't how we normally understand the idea of a "denomination", because Eastern Orthodoxy is a single church made up of a number of autocephelous bodies around the globe.

As to there being 30,000 Protestant denominations, that is, in a word, false.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Abel Gkiouzelis

The Smile of God in your heart
Feb 25, 2016
543
197
44
Greece
Visit site
✟38,404.00
Country
Greece
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
Except, as stated, there aren't 30,000 Protestant churches, the number there isn't exclusive to Protestantism. As such it's either misleading or else straight up false.

The source of these figures comes from David Barret's World Christian Encyclopedia, which has undergone several revisions since its first publication in 1982. The original figure was around 20,000 in 1982, and in the 2001 edition that number reached around 30,000. However it is not 30,000 distinct Protestant denominations, it is 30,000 denominations, of which over 700 are classified as Eastern Orthodox, and over 200 as Roman Catholic. Because every autocephelous church, rite, or expression of Christianity in each country is being counted as a denomination.

Your claim that there are 30,000 distinct Protestant denominations is a common figure cited on the internet, the problem is that it's not 30,000 Protestant denominations, it's 30,000 Christian denominations, and "denomination" is defined in a very particular way.

You can say there are over 30,000 Christian denominations only if you accept that about 700 of those are Eastern Orthodox denominations. However that isn't how we normally understand the idea of a "denomination", because Eastern Orthodoxy is a single church made up of a number of autocephelous bodies around the globe.

As to there being 30,000 Protestant denominations, that is, in a word, false.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't mean the autocephelous churches of Eastern Orthodox Church & the 200 of Roman Catholic Church.
The autocephalous local churches belong to Eastern Orhodox Church.
The 200 belong to Roman Catholic Church

I mean the new Protestant Christian Churches which are founded every day in America and Europe etc.
New small Christian Churches which are founded every day!
New small Churches which founded on 1897, on 1918, on 2000, on 2001, on 2002 etc.
All these are 20,000-30,000 new Churches.

I was born in a new "Church" which founded on 1897 in Ireland called "No Name Church"!! Like "No Name Church" there are many many new Churches and one does not accept the other.

All these small new Churches say: I am the truth.

But the real Church is the ancient Church of Christ.
Someone must find which is the ancient Church founded by Christ having Apostolic Succession.

With respect to all,
Abel
 
Upvote 0