is it wrong to drink alcohol/wine

As far as alcohol, yes, you see it in the Bible but I have a book that kind of answers this.. It says " Todays' wine is by biblical definitions 'strong drink'. What the NT meant by wine was basically purified waterr. Wine in ancient times was 20 parts water and one part wine. Essentially wine-flavored water." Then it goes on to say that the main thing emphasized was not to be "drunk". Not to do it in excess.
I can't say about teh euthanasia thing b/c I have mixed views on that.

About the twins, from what I understand they went into it knowing the consequences but wanted the attempt to be made anyway. I think the drs. did all they could and the twins knew going into it one consequence could be their death.

I think that alcoholic beverages are just fine. As with all things, it has most to do with moderation and refraining from abuse. Examples of drinking alcohol are very common in the bible, and it does go to point out the difference by calling out drunkeness.

As far as alcohol, yes, you see it in the Bible but I have a book that kind of answers this.. It says " Todays' wine is by biblical definitions 'strong drink'. What the NT meant by wine was basically purified waterr. Wine in ancient times was 20 parts water and one part wine.

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What is the title/ISBN for this book ?

One of the reasons that wine was consumed was because it kept better than the foul water of those days. In fact, beer was used on ships because water would spoil and the sailors would dehydrate. Wine flavored water would do little to retard spoilage.

And of couse there is the Sunset Psalm 102 LXX (103)

Wine to make glad the heart of man and oil to make his face shine ...

Everything that is good in moderation.

It's called " The Complete Book of Bible Answers- Answering the Tough Questions" by Ron Rhodes

Thanks !

He is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary so I would imageine that he holds to to the views taught therein. Does he have a reference in his book supporting the diluted wine theory ?

no actually he doesn't. he just goes on to say that "sometimes in the ancient world they would go as strong as 1 part wine- 1 part water adn that this was considered strong wine. and that anyone who drank unmixed wine was looked upon as a Scythian, a barbarian." then he says that the question we must ask ourselves is; is it beneficial for me to do so? "eerything is permissable for me but not everything is beneficial"

i admit it's a pretty informative book but then again the things that aren't backed up maybe should be taken with a grain of salt! But it's helped me in some areas!! It's worth checking out!!

FWIW - I think it is OK to drink in moderation, but if it causes you or a brother to stumble, then it is not in that instance.

In Scripture there are some gray areas and there are the Black and White areas.

I have heard, and tried to study but didn't find anything to confirm this, that when Scripture says "wine" it would best be translated to grape juice. Everything else I have heard doesn't support this either. It is an interesting idea, though.

My pa-in-law was a drunk by age 14. He was saved in AA and hasn't had a drop since. However, I would never drink in front of him. Alcohol and smokes were the reason his parents died in their fifties--and chased him around the yard with guns. Now he's pastoring.

But in light of that, Scripture says in one of the Pauline Epistles that we not offend another brother, lest he stumble. While most of my close friends wouldn't be tempted if I had a glass of wine with my meal (and I do, about 5 times a year is all), it is still safest to not.

I am pretty sure Scripture does not say "don't smoke," but it does say pretty explicitly to take care of our bodies as they're they temple of Christ. Hence--I would advise: don't smoke.

Without this getting too long, I have two stories I was told by Warren Wiersbe.

He was in the south with another preacher at a camp who was distraught at the boys and girls swimming together. (I think it was Wiersbe who replied) "As soon as you stop smoking I will separate the kids.

As well, in going overseas as a missionary, cultural relevance is very important. He relayed the story of friends visiting a missionary family in Europe and being offered wine. Of course! It would have been an insult in that culture, and many others like it, to offer anything less. My wife did a Short Termer in Cameroon with Wycliffe, who has a don't drink policy. However, the people with Wycliffe over there knew there were situations where the would have to accept the drink or their ministry would be comprised, as the people would be offended.

lostgal said:

i was wondering whether drinking alcohol is wrong? u see, drinking wine/alcohol, damages our organs for example the liver. according to the Bible, we're not suppose to do anything which may hurt our organs. it is said that smoking is a sin. but what bout drinking? in the Bable, Jesus turned water into wine during a gathering and they drink it. so is it considered a sin?

its almost the same thing bout giving someone Euthanasia. wat if this guy's bed-ridden and is a burden to his family, and everybody's sure there's 0% of recovery. wat if he request for Euthanasia so that he can lessen his family's "already worst" situation? committing suicide is a sin? bout wat about this situation? if he isnt given Euthanasia, his family would be the one suffering n might starve to death. so wat's ur opinion?

and wat bout the late Iranian conjoined twins? it was of course a sad tragedy, but is it right to change their fate? ur opinions will be most appreciated. thanks.

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Not that this is a cite but ...

Any bottle of Greek wine today has the same word as in Holy Scripture (both New and Old (LXX) Testament).

oinos euphre'ne kardi'an

Wine to make the heart glad

LXX - Ps 104:15 (103:15)

I don't think there is there is anything wrong with wine. I personally would never drink it. I'm not a fan of alcohol and probably never will be. Wine I believe has some kind of biblical purpose. Since it is in the Bible and all. Hope this helps.

Everything in moderation.

I would like to know where the concept of nonalcoholic wine in the first century came from. I always hear quotes from modern christian authors that say, "It is said..., or Don't you know that.......wine in the first century is not what we know wine today", but they don't list any sources.

The sources I have read state that unfermented wine was and invention of Thomas B. Welch, MD in 1869, and it wasn't marketed to the public until the 1890s. He tried to market it to churches before that as a communion drink, but was unsuccesfull at the time because the churches thought it irreligious to not use real wine.
I always thought that crushed grapes naturally turn into wine. Dr Welch developed the process of boiling the juice to prevent natural fermentation. We know his product today as Welch's Grape juice.

Does any one have historical secular sources for unfermented wine in the 1st century?

Jenna said:

I think that alcoholic beverages are just fine. As with all things, it has most to do with moderation and refraining from abuse.

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There is an extremely thin line between staying sober and getting drunk. You can drink 1 glass for this time, but can you say that the next time you'll not drink more than a glass? Many people like to compromise or have the tendency to do so if they FEEL that they are alright. That's exactly how temptations by Satan work, he gradually leads you down to the path of destruction until you don't know how you got there. But when you're there, you're doomed.

Like the frog who was placed in a pot of boiling water. Initially the water would be of room temperature, but the frog would slowly get used to the heating water and wouldn't be too bothered about it, or noticing anything amiss. We have something to learn from this frog example and how Satan entices us throughout our feeble minds.

Of course, there are people who have extremely strong will power to resist drinking that extra glass of wine or alcohol. But how many are there? Comparatively few. Now the problem is, we don't know whether we have the will power or not coz the only way we would know is to experience it firsthand.

The Bible gives many texts admonishing against the use of alcohol. It also gives examples of people doing so.

Daniel says this to their guard over them:
"‘Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead. "Daniel 1:12-18

So here we see Daniel and his three friends rejecting wine and meat. But here's another to Manoah, the mother of Samson:

"‘You will conceive and give birth to a son. Now then, drink no wine or other fermented drink and do not eat anything unclean, because the boy will be a Nazirite of God from birth until the day of his death.’” Judges 13:7

And in verse 14, this command is given to Manoah not to take strong drink.

Other texts:
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Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived
thereby is not wise. Prov. 20:1.

He that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich. Prov. 21:17.

The drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty. Prov. 23:21.

At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Prov. 23:32.

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning that they may follow
strong drink . . . till wine inflame them! Isa. 5:11.

Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine. Isa. 5:22.
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But the question remains. Why did Jesus turn water to wine? We have to bear in mind the above texts and try to think of how Jesus' action can be in harmony with them. Why would Jesus turn it into wine (alcoholic drink) if there would remain a slight chance of at least one person getting drunk? I don't want to start sounding preachy, but just to remind you that the key to studying the BIble is to know that it is a harmonious book and if there be any texts that seem "off" or weird, then the interpretation is the problem and not the text itself.

The best explanation i can find is in the definition of the "wine" used. wine can be thought of fermented (alcoholic) or unfermented (fresh from the grape) and this word is used to represent either one. So in actual fact, Jesus who inspired the prophets to write things against wine(strong drink, alcoholic drink), also made sure He turned the water to just wine (pure juice from the grape) so nobody can get drunk.

And now is the scientific fact. No matter how much alcoholic beverage you drink, whether a glass or 2 or 10, one's senses will be dulled. It will be dulled more if you drink more. And alocholic or people who drink moderately have a higher chance of non-coronary related deaths. Because when one's senses is dulled, one cannot think clearly when he/she drives or walk across the street. Your perception falls even though you've had only 1 glass and you FEEL good. But feelings can be deceptive and that's another issue.

In conclusion, the God who created us and who said "Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?" wants us to maintain our bodies and to treat it with respect. I would want to treat my body with respect and eat and drink the right food because i want to follow what my Creator says. No one else but the Creator would know what's best for the created being. And i'm just going to trust Him.

There are some texts that seem to contradict, for example when paul was telling timothy(i think). These are the gray areas that i haven't looked into yet and haven't studied. Perhaps Paul was right because based on scientific studies, it is proven that wine helps to lower risks of coronary diseases. But don't forget that it increases risk of non-coronary related deaths and take note that in those days, they had no automobiles or trains. They only had those slow moving horses or donkeys that they had to look out for. So they definitely had to use less senses to cross the road in our terms.

Furthermore, i would not want to thread on the other side because of these few "contrary" texts that i don't fully understand knowing i have a whole chunk(or majority) of other texts which are CLEAR and unambiguous. Keep to what is clear and one will be safe.

I have studied this. Jesus drank wine folks. No evidence that it is watered down at all as far as I can tell. Drinking alcohol is therefore not a sin, because Jesus never sinned. The scripture teaches to not be a drunkard (alcoholic) and to be filled with the Spirit instead of being drunk.

If alcoholism runs in your family, by all means don't drink even Nyquil cough syrup, because no one wants to take a chance at destroying your life, and those around you, as well as your testimony. If your conscience says I should not drink, then don't. But your conscience may and does have more to do with you, than it does your brothers and sisters in Christ. Don't be a Pharisee, that says I don't do this, and I don't do that, and therefore I am more spiritual than you who do these things. If you are doing that, you are actually showing your own spiritual immaturity. Finger pointing, and judging ourselves based on others is immature. In actuallity the one who is drinking socially but not getting drunk, and doesn't feel any conviction by the Holy Spirit, is not sinning, and its not the job of fellow believers to be a sin picker in others lives anyway. In other words get the beam out of your own eye, before you start looking for the speck of dirt in your brothers. And even don't be looking for the speck is I think the implication behind that verse.

I come from an anti-alcohol church background but now I've read the Bible which caused me to carefully study the false teachings I heard when I was young. There is nothing to support the idea that wine in Jesus time was watered down. Going back to the original post, drunkeness is bad for your health but drinking any alcohol in moderation is good for heart problems and other illnesses but doesn't cause problems that excessive drinking causes. Also the Bible talked about red wine and there is a huge difference between wine and beer as far as the health benefits and problems.

Most of the arguments against drinking alcohol I've seen say that there are two words in the Hebrew for wine one is grape juice and one is alcohol. It's claimed only passages with grape juice support drinking "wine" and the passages about drinking alcohol are against drinking wine. I studied this with a Strong's Concordance. In reality most passages that have the word everybody agrees is about alcohol encourage drinking wine. There are only a few verses with the word some claim to be grape juice. All those verses tell people to drink newer wine for Pesach (Passover) in spring time. The grapes are harvested in summer so there is no way that they weren't fermented at Pesach.
Boughtwithaprice, I thought Welch made grape juice around 1900 instead of the 1860's but I could be wrong. The Bible instructs us to all drink of one cup and that was how communion was done until shortly after Welch introduced grape juice. Alcohol kills bacteria preventing the spread of disease but after Welch communion spread illness causing epidemics which caused the church to change how communion is conducted and ignore Scripture and tradition. Squished grapes usually ferment in less than a minutes time so grape juice didn't exist until Welch developed the process to have grape juice. I frequently help make cookies for prison ministries and one of the requirements for sending cookies that the jails/prisons make is no raisins or other fruits in the cookies because those are easily turned into alcohol by inmates.