CCWoody said:
I would think that if you had any real official declarations that what you say is true, then you would post them.
Unfortunately, as you personally have absolutely no authority whatsoever and we Calvinists are able to read the authorative documents for ourselves, we have no other choice than to conclude that the Roman Catholic church has declared all of us Calvinists and most of us Protestants to be cursed.
It's not that we don't like you personally, Michelle. You simply are not authorized to speak on behalf of the Roman Catholic church. Nor, are you qualified to interpret any official document of the RCC.
Them's the facts!
Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.
No, I'm sorry, "them's NOT the facts."
I am constantly floored at how Calvinists claim that the Scriptures are clear and easy to understand, and yet they have to do sommersaults and cartwheels to interpret passages that disprove Calvinism (i.e., 100% of the Bible).
They come up with the most twisted interpretations of Scripture that "normal people" would not be able to get out of the readings themselves without the Calvinist interpretation to tell them how to interpret it. Case in point: how Calvinists must reconcile the doctrine of "the elect" who cannot lose their salvation to all the verses in the Bible warning about falling away after coming to the knowledge of the truth.
A certain Calvinist I write to (at least he is a decent guy; anti-Catholic but only in terms of
theology; he does not subscribe to the "statue-worshiping, Mary-worshiping, neo-pagan" myths that are labeled on the Church because he knows that they are not true) told me that the elect is told to "persevere" because "perservering" is a sign that you are in the elect.
Then I asked him why all the constant admonishments toward sinning after coming to the knowledge of truth, warnings not to fall away which are abundant, etc. and he told me that that is so the elect can persevere. But if the elect is the TRUE elect, they will persevere anyway, I told him. Nothing you can do can change that! So why warn about falling away and that there is only judgment (Hebrews 10:26-28 for example), if there
is no danger for it since the elect will persevere? Because if you didn't persevere you're not in the elect, right!?
It's like telling me, "Don't rape your dog" -- well I have no intention to rape my dog, so why are you telling me not to do something which is completely contrary to my nature, desires, and intentions?
Sorry for such a graphic example, but to tell the elect to persevere is somewhat like that... since the Calvinists believe such a fixed pre-destined, saved group that cannot fall, right?
As for your absurd accusation that Catholics cannot read and interpret the Bible for themselves, get a clue.
Nowhere is it taught that Catholics cannot read, study, and understand the Bible on their own. You will be hard-pressed to find proof of that teaching anywhere for it does not exist. But our interpretations should not be of ourselves but from the Holy Spirit, agreeing with that which has been handed down faithfully from generation to generation.
Bearing in mind the warning in 2 Peter 1:20-2, Catholics revere and study the Bible diligently to deepen their faith in God, but they know that because we are imperfect humans, we are prone to error. Bear in mind we are the BODY of Christ, each of us with "different gifts, according to the grace given us" (Romans 12:3-8; cf Ephesians 4; 1 Cor. 12). Not all are called to prophecy, not all called to be teachers, and we cannot say we do not need them. Since some are teachers, some are better suited to aiding and supporting the brethren in their task. Some have a great enlightenment that others don't when reading the scripture. That is a fact even you cannot deny. The very office of a priest, deacon, or bishop are for men who fulfill these roles.
Ultimately this is why there is the Magisterium, based on Acts 15 and the Council of Jerusalem, to render decisions IN THE UNITY OF THE BODY, working together.
We Catholics are not "lone ranger" Christians, we celebrate our diversity within our unity. The depth of Scripture allows various levels of interpretation but must not, cannot contradict one another. For if one man does do this, it must be discussed. Look what happened with the Arians, and all the other heresies; they took Scripture to mean whatever they wanted it to.
Bearing this in mind, we are called to live in the model of the early Church, being of one heart and mind (cf Acts 4:32; John 14-18), not come up with our own "private interpretations" that are not from God.
Sacred Tradition (Apostolic Tradition) is vitally linked with Sacred Scripture. They spring from the one source - God. For do you believe, Mark, that if Paul had merely SPOKEN all the words of all his epistles and not written them, they wouldn't still (being the SAME words and SAME message) be inspired. By the power of the Holy Spirit, and His divine inspiration, He gives authority to men to preach and teach infallibly (Matthew 16:18, 18:18, 28:9; 1 Cor. 11:2; Phil. 4:9; Col. 4:16; 1 Thess. 3:10; 2 Thess. 2:14-15; 1 Tim. 3:14-15; 2 Tim. 2:2, 3:14; 2 Peter 3:15-16 -- the word "ignorant" or unschooled shows that people need to be taught and guided along the way with Scripture; 2 John 1:12)
For example, the popular NIV shows its anti-Catholic bias by mistranslating the Greek word "paradosis", ("tradition") in some passages (1 Cor 11:2; and 2 Thess 2:15, 3:6) where this inspired word is used in a positive sense. In its place the word "teaching" is substituted. However, when the Greek text uses the word "paradosis" in a negative sense it is correctly translated as "tradition." This misleads the reader to conclude that all "tradition," "paradosis", is condemned in the New Testament. This is an example of the evil of private interpretation, which is given precedent over the words chosen by the Holy Spirit. In addition, the reader of this translation is denied the opportunity to compare this interpretation of the text with what the text actually says. This is why it is necessary to test every spirit and learn the truth.
Now I have told you why I am Catholic. I have studied the writings of the Church Fathers, men so faithful (that so many were martyred) for the faith and the insistence on the unity of the Church, and the faithful transmission of the faith of the Apostles, handed to them from Jesus. If you read and study them you will find their Gospel and theology is not that of Calvinists, but that of the Catholics. Their understanding of Scripture and its depths and power, are without equal.
The burden of historical and theological proof is on
your shoulders, Woody. Can you tell us with certainty
you are in the Church founded by Jesus Christ? Can you confirm to me that you have the correct interpretation of scripture? You have not done so yet so I believe you cannot. I have a heck of a lot more reason to believe my Church is right, and this is by faith, reason, the Holy Spirit, and historical analysis.... but "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29)
In Christ,
TIM