I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

FrumiousBandersnatch · Jun 17, 2021

eleos1954 said:
well ... if one is going to debate (compare) creation vs. evolution (apples to apples) the origin of life has to be included ... because the biblical claim is God created EVERYTHING, firstly the universe (environment) where life could be sustained .... scientifically regarding that .... there are and can only be theories (and there are many in that regard).

The questions evolution answers and explains so well is not where did life come from or arise, but why is it so diverse, and why does that diversity have the distinct pattern that it does?

If 'God-did-it' is the creation explanation, it still needs to explain why life is so diverse and why that diversity has the distinct pattern that it does (IOW, why did God make it so diverse and why in a pattern precisely matching the evolutionary explanation?). Otherwise, as I've said elsewhere, it's no more explanatory than saying "It's Magic!".

Phred · Jun 21, 2021

eleos1954 said:
well ... if one is going to debate (compare) creation vs. evolution (apples to apples) the origin of life has to be included ... because the biblical claim is God created EVERYTHING, firstly the universe (environment) where life could be sustained .... scientifically regarding that .... there are and can only be theories (and there are many in that regard). Same is true about any other belief about the origin of life. The universe is vast and can not be completely observed ... much less fully understood and can only theorized.

Then you should be comparing it to a theory called Abiogenesis. That's the theory that explains where life came from. I'm sorry, but you don't get to decide what a theory should contain because of what the Bible says. We base those theories upon the phenomena they explain, not the fairy tales they happen to be closest to.

An idea (formulated thought(s) or opinion(s) are not indisputable fact(s) ... same is
true about God or any other "idea(s)" about the origin of life.

What IS true ... is ... that we don't know HOW the origin of life began (scientifically or otherwise) we only have ideas about it. Therefore people have their own thoughts and opinions about the matter.

Does it matter? Perhaps .... if the biblical account is true there is life after death ....
if not then there isn't? Don't believe in life after death? ... ok .... that's one's choice to believe that ... also nothing wrong with believing otherwise.

Bottom line .... WE DO NOT KNOW ... only have ideas about it and each decide what idea(s) they choose to believe and there are many beliefs.

One is supported by data. The other is not. It's not "an idea." It is a formulated series of constructs based upon evidence and work. A lot of work. We don't "believe" it. We accept it.

FredVB · Sep 3, 2025

The Bible does not explain the things, the Bible tells the readers God made everything. How can what God does be explained by limited creation? That's not possible. But does science disprove it? No, science does not disprove it, just using the philosophy that is the general approach in science, that everything is explainable with natural processes. But they are not. There are all the fossils, this is not being denied. I have a mostly young earth understanding, but don't answer about my belief in a 6000 year old earth, I have not been saying anything for that for a long time. And the old earth part of my understanding is about the unformed world which we were not told how long ago it was made, before the creation of the atmosphere, land and seas, with all the life. And the many kinds that God put here could still diversify, without them having all started from the same ancestry. So there would have been more species. But now, there is so much extinction happening, there could be less species, or soon will be.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Sep 3, 2025

FredVB said:
The Bible does not explain the things, the Bible tells the readers God made everything. How can what God does be explained by limited creation? That's not possible. But does science disprove it? No, science does not disprove it, just using the philosophy that is the general approach in science, that everything is explainable with natural processes. But they are not. There are all the fossils, this is not being denied. I have a mostly young earth understanding, but don't answer about my belief in a 6000 year old earth, I have not been saying anything for that for a long time. And the old earth part of my understanding is about the unformed world which we were not told how long ago it was made, before the creation of the atmosphere, land and seas, with all the life. And the many kinds that God put here could still diversify, without them having all started from the same ancestry. So there would have been more species. But now, there is so much extinction happening, there could be less species, or soon will be.

Why are you responding to a four year old dead thread?

FredVB · Jul 5, 2026

Why is time meaningful? There are philosophers saying time isn't real. I don't make any issue about how old the earth is. It would be a certain age without anyone really knowing what it is. But it was unformed, in any way that would distinguish it from any other planets. But God supernaturally put life into this world, that no one knows how else it really would have started, and God finished with that creation with it very good according to God's perfect standards.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jul 5, 2026

FredVB said:
Why is time meaningful? There are philosophers saying time isn't real. I don't make any issue about how old the earth is. It would be a certain age without anyone really knowing what it is. But it was unformed, in any way that would distinguish it from any other planets. But God supernaturally put life into this world, that no one knows how else it really would have started, and God finished with that creation with it very good according to God's perfect standards.

Why are you responding to a thread that's been dead for four years aside from your own attempt at necroing it, and a thread by a poster who has not been seen in as many years?

Ophiolite · Jul 6, 2026

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Why are you responding to a thread that's been dead for four years aside from your own attempt at necroing it, and a thread by a poster who has not been seen in as many years?

@FredVB is a sincere believer. Sincere believers feel a need to affirm their faith. (Just as evolutionists may feel a need to affirm their acceptance of evolutionary theory as currently the best explanation for the diversity of life on the planet.) Fred has chosen to affirm his faith by expressing his thoughts on this thread, one in which some of his beliefs were challenged. I don't think it was a very helpful action for anyone else; we must hope that Fred found it beneficial and that he finds a better way in future.

AV1611VET · Jul 7, 2026

Gottservant said:
I would rather be backwards and have faith; than go forwards and "evolve".

Sounds good!

The Good Book says:

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

It does not say:

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of evolution.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jul 8, 2026

AV1611VET said:
Sounds good!

The Good Book says:

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

It does not say:

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of evolution.

Gottservant was last seen October 10, 2022.

It's been four years, he ain't coming back.

AV1611VET · Jul 8, 2026

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Gottservant was last seen October 10, 2022.

And the Apostle Peter long before that.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
It's been four years, he ain't coming back.

I'd like to see him come back.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jul 8, 2026

AV1611VET said:
And the Apostle Peter long before that.

That makes no sense, and Gottservant cannot be compared to Peter at all.

AV1611VET said:
I'd like to see him come back.

It'd be interesting if he comes back, sure. Wouldn't necessarily say I'd like it...

AV1611VET · Jul 8, 2026

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
That makes no sense,

Why does that not surprise me?

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jul 8, 2026

AV1611VET said:
Why does that not surprise me?

I do not care in the slightest anymore. I'm leaving this thread to graveyard that it belongs to.

FredVB · Jul 14, 2026

I have seen Gottservant posting and he seems to be well enough, doing so. He just had gone to another forum. Perhaps I might talk to him about returning here. But then if I do, it will be entirely up to him if he would do so.

AV1611VET · Jul 14, 2026

FredVB said:
I have seen Gottservant posting and he seems to be well enough, doing so. He just had gone to another forum. Perhaps I might talk to him about returning here. But then if I do, it will be entirely up to him if he would do so.

Beg, plead, and cajole him to come back here, please.

(Threaten him if you have to!

)

FredVB · Jul 16, 2026

I will try being persuasive when I see him communicating next.

Shemjaza · Jul 17, 2026

I hope he's doing better.

The disordered thoughts about evolution were clearly upsetting.

FredVB · Jul 18, 2026

Last I heard. But who can judge disordered thoughts? Who has everything right?

Shemjaza · Jul 18, 2026

FredVB said:
Last I heard. But who can judge disordered thoughts? Who has everything right?

It's not about judging them. I may disagree with AV about evolution, but I don't see the same deeply distressed repetition and even fear in his comments that I saw in Gottservant's concerns about what evolution, choice and even thought represented.

I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

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