God did not create from nothing

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-12T17:50:58-0500

AV1611VET said:
You don't think the Celts celebrated Passover by applying blood to those stones?

Not really. Are you just trying to mess with people's heads by saying these kinds of things, AV ?

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T17:52:19-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
Not really. Are you just trying to mess with people's heads by saying these kinds of things, AV ?

I think he genuinely believes this. I really, sadly, do think he genuinely believes this.

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-12T17:55:21-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I think he genuinely believes this. I really, sadly, do think he genuinely believes this.

It would be sad to find out he does.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T17:59:05-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
It would be sad to find out he does.

It's the only way to explain so much of what he writes. Not even a troll would be able to make up even half of the stuff he does.

dlamberth · 2026-06-12T18:00:19-0500

Platte said:
A known speed of light is required to synchronize clocks

Light is a constant. Even dumb me understands that.

sjastro · 2026-06-12T18:15:08-0500

sjastro said:
The one-way speed of light depends on on how much the clocks need to be synchronised.
Who synchronises the clocks, it is not done by God, nor nature but by the observer.

This is why the observer sets the convention, in the Einstein convention the round-trip velocity c is 299,792,458 m/s based on measurements.
The roundtrip velocity also ensures c has this value in all directions.

It doesn't make any sense to think the one-way velocity is unknown as it can take on any value as determined by the convention set by the observer.

Further to my previous post the round-trip or two way velocity of the speed of light is invariant in all inertial frames of references.
This means all observers will agree the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s.
This is supported by centuries of measurements; the one-way speed of light on the otherhand being dependent on much clocks need to be synchronised is not invariant.

This violates one of the postulates of SR the speed of light being invariant and would not have made the following successful predictions of the theory.
I let AI do the leg work on this.

Yes. If you adopt the standard Einstein synchronization convention (the one used throughout modern physics), Special Relativity has made a large number of successful quantitative predictions that have been experimentally verified.

Prediction SR Effect Experimental Confirmation
Time dilation of moving clocks Moving clocks run slow by factor (\gamma) Atomic clocks on aircraft, satellites, particle accelerators
Muon survival to Earth's surface Fast-moving muons experience less proper time Cosmic-ray muon measurements
Relativistic Doppler effect Frequency shifts differ from classical prediction Precision spectroscopy and astrophysics
Relativistic velocity addition Velocities do not simply add High-energy particle experiments
Mass-energy equivalence (E=mc^2) Nuclear reactions, particle physics
Momentum-energy relation (E^2=(pc)^2+(mc^2)^2) Particle accelerators
Length contraction Moving objects contract along direction of motion Indirectly confirmed through accelerator physics and electrodynamics
Relativity of simultaneity Different inertial observers disagree on simultaneity Required for consistency of modern timing systems; indirectly confirmed
Lifetime extension of unstable particles Decay rates depend on proper time Muons, pions, other relativistic particles
Transverse Doppler effect Frequency shift due purely to time dilation Mössbauer and laser experiments
Ives–Stilwell effect Time dilation produces specific Doppler shifts Repeated high-precision tests
Synchrotron radiation behavior Relativistic particle dynamics Storage rings and synchrotrons
GPS timing corrections (SR component) Satellite clocks gain time due to orbital motion effects predicted by SR Daily operation of GPS

A few famous examples
Muons reaching Earth
Muons created high in the atmosphere have a rest-frame lifetime of only about 2.2 microseconds.

Without SR, very few should survive to sea level.

Using time dilation:

t=\gamma t_0

SR predicts many will survive, exactly as observed.

Mass-energy equivalence
SR predicts:

E=mc^2

This underlies:

Nuclear power

Nuclear weapons

Stellar energy production

Particle-antiparticle annihilation

Energy-momentum relation
SR predicts:

E^2=(pc)^2+(mc^2)^2

This formula is used every day in particle accelerators such as those operated by CERN to predict particle energies, masses, and collision products.

Does this prove the one-way speed of light?
Not directly.

An interesting subtlety is that essentially all of these successful predictions depend on the spacetime structure of Special Relativity and the measured two-way speed (c). Many physicists argue that they do not independently prove Einstein synchronization is uniquely correct, because alternative synchronization conventions can often be formulated that leave all observable predictions unchanged.

However, Einstein synchronization has a major advantage:

It makes the one-way speed isotropic ((c) in every direction).

Maxwell's equations take their simplest form.

The Lorentz transformations become symmetric.

Virtually all modern physics is formulated using it.

So while the table above demonstrates the extraordinary success of Special Relativity, there remains a technical distinction between:

The experimentally verified predictions of SR.

The philosophical question of whether the one-way speed of light is a measurable fact or partly a synchronization convention.

The first is overwhelmingly confirmed; the second remains a topic of discussion in the foundations of relativity.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T18:32:40-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No, because they weren't Jewish! They were Celts! It's in the name!

From AI Overview:

God commanded the Passover to be kept as a "statute forever" and a "memorial" for all generations. While the initial command in Exodus 12 was specifically for the Israelites and the "foreigner residing among" them (Exodus 12:43-49), the Bible indicates its significance expands far beyond Israel and Egypt, with prophets later foretelling a time when all nations will recognize or celebrate God's feasts.

Ex 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

Ex 12:43 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.

Ex 12:48 And when a stranger [including a Celt] shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And seeing as how Gomer is considered the father of the Celts ...

Noah → Japheth → Gomer → Celts

... I don't see a problem with the Celts knowing about the Passover in one way or another.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T18:35:53-0500

AV1611VET said:
From AI Overview:

God commanded the Passover to be kept as a "statute forever" and a "memorial" for all generations. While the initial command in Exodus 12 was specifically for the Israelites and the "foreigner residing among" them (Exodus 12:43-49), the Bible indicates its significance expands far beyond Israel and Egypt, with prophets later foretelling a time when all nations will recognize or celebrate God's feasts.

Ex 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

Ex 12:43 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.

Ex 12:48 And when a stranger [including a Celt] shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And seeing as how Gomer is considered the father of the Celts ...

Noah → Japheth → Gomer → Celts

... I don't see a problem with the Celts knowing about the Passover in one way or another.

It's always so funny when you have to explicitly and pointedly have to add to the Bible to try and get a point across.

But no. Just flat out NO.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T18:36:16-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
Not really. Are you just trying to mess with people's heads by saying these kinds of things, AV ?

Just thinking out loud.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T18:36:57-0500

AV1611VET said:
Just thinking out loud.

Do it less.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T18:38:51-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I think he genuinely believes this. I really, sadly, do think he genuinely believes this.

I definitely like the thought.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T18:43:15-0500

AV1611VET said:
I definitely like the thought.

View attachment 380275

View attachment 380276

It doesn’t matter if you like it or not, it's flat out wrong.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T18:43:26-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
It would be sad to find out he does.

It's important to you that the Celts were dumber than a hay rake re the Passover, isn't it?

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T18:45:55-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
It's always so funny when you have to explicitly and pointedly have to add to the Bible to try and get a point across.

But no. Just flat out NO.

Canaan was off limits to the Celts, was it?

Did Joshua post a sign: NO CELTS ALLOWED?

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T18:47:24-0500

AV1611VET said:
It's important to you that the Celts were dumber than a hay rake re the Passover, isn't it?

Or maybe, just maybe... the Celts were a people entirely separate to the ancient Jews with their own cultural beliefs and practices entirely unique to themselves. And to try and force them into your own personal interpretation of the Bible comes off as MASSIVELY arrogant and frankly idiotic and insensitive to people who actually come from the same lands as them.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T18:48:51-0500

AV1611VET said:
Canaan was off limits to the Celts, was it?

Did Joshua post a sign: NO CELTS ALLOWED?

I am REALLY tempted to report you for all this now. This is just coming across as offensive, I want you to know that.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T18:50:33-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
It doesn’t matter if you like it or not, it's flat out wrong.

You'd better start coming up with viable reasons why, or your remarks and high-fiving each other's ignorant posts can take a hike.

And by coming up with viable reasons why, you'd better start getting as specific as I do, or stop wasting my time by trying to look like you were there as an observer in Joshua's days and acting like you know everywhere the Celts settled, and everywhere they didn't.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2026-06-12T18:56:14-0500

AV1611VET said:
You'd better start coming up with viable reasons why, or your remarks and high-fiving each other's ignorant posts can take a hike.

And by coming up with viable reasons why, you'd better start getting as specific as I do, or stop wasting my time by trying to look like you were there as an observer in Joshua's days and acting like you know everywhere the Celts settled, and everywhere they didn't.

How hard is it for you to understand that the Celtic people of the British Isles were their own distinct and separate group of people who had no connection at all to the ancient Jews?
They existed in two different places at the same time and developed their own unique and separate cultures. How hard is that as a concept for you to grasp?

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T19:00:36-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Or maybe, just maybe... the Celts were a people entirely separate to the ancient Jews with their own cultural beliefs and practices entirely unique to themselves.

Ya ... no kidding.

I'm sure they were viewed as "mission fields" back then too.

And the Gospel -- (even in its infant stage) -- was spread around via the likes of --

Key Prophets Who Prophesied Outside Israel

Ezekiel: Known as a unique Major Prophet who received his calling and delivered prophecies while in exile by the Chebar Canal in Babylon.

Daniel: Prophesied and received visions while living in Babylon and Persia during the captivity.

Jonah: Sent on a mission to prophesy to the city of Nineveh (capital of Assyria), rather than to Israel.

Obadiah: Focused his prophecy on the nation of Edom, though it was recorded for an Israelite audience.

Nahum: Prophesied against Nineveh (Assyria).

Balaam: A non-Israelite prophet from Mesopotamia (near the Euphrates) who delivered prophecies regarding Israel while in Moab.

Job: Identified as a "prophet" in some traditions (and a "servant" of God) who lived in the land of Uz, outside Israel.

SOURCE: AI Overview

(And I might add Samson to that list as well.)

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
And to try and force them into your own personal interpretation of the Bible comes off as MASSIVELY arrogant and frankly idiotic and insensitive to people who actually come from the same lands as them.

Being a deist, I'm sure you think we force everything we believe into the Bible.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-12T19:04:44-0500

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I am REALLY tempted to report you for all this now. This is just coming across as offensive, I want you to know that.

I fail to see why.

From AI Overview:

The Celts lived throughout Europe and formed the largest group in the continent during the Iron Age. Originating in central Europe, particularly around the Rhine and Danube rivers around 1200 B.C., they spread across the continent, reaching as far west as the British Isles and Spain and as far east as the Black Sea by the 3rd century B.C.

Meaning they lived next door to the Israelites.

Prediction	SR Effect	Experimental Confirmation
Time dilation of moving clocks	Moving clocks run slow by factor (\gamma)	Atomic clocks on aircraft, satellites, particle accelerators
Muon survival to Earth's surface	Fast-moving muons experience less proper time	Cosmic-ray muon measurements
Relativistic Doppler effect	Frequency shifts differ from classical prediction	Precision spectroscopy and astrophysics
Relativistic velocity addition	Velocities do not simply add	High-energy particle experiments
Mass-energy equivalence	(E=mc^2)	Nuclear reactions, particle physics
Momentum-energy relation	(E^2=(pc)^2+(mc^2)^2)	Particle accelerators
Length contraction	Moving objects contract along direction of motion	Indirectly confirmed through accelerator physics and electrodynamics
Relativity of simultaneity	Different inertial observers disagree on simultaneity	Required for consistency of modern timing systems; indirectly confirmed
Lifetime extension of unstable particles	Decay rates depend on proper time	Muons, pions, other relativistic particles
Transverse Doppler effect	Frequency shift due purely to time dilation	Mössbauer and laser experiments
Ives–Stilwell effect	Time dilation produces specific Doppler shifts	Repeated high-precision tests
Synchrotron radiation behavior	Relativistic particle dynamics	Storage rings and synchrotrons
GPS timing corrections (SR component)	Satellite clocks gain time due to orbital motion effects predicted by SR	Daily operation of GPS

God did not create from nothing

Perceiving the Bigger Picture

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A few famous examples​

Muons reaching Earth​

Mass-energy equivalence​

Energy-momentum relation​

Does this prove the one-way speed of light?​

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