• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

God did not create from nothing

2PhiloVoid

Perceiving the Bigger Picture
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
26,750
12,429
Space Mountain!
✟1,519,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I agree, it doesn't prove Genesis - but it does give strong evidence to its narrative. A narrative most would find ridiculous young - Creation only 6000 years ago....but then we learn that History only goes back 6000 years. and then we learn the first civilization in History is the same location as the garden of eden. Not proof but excellent compelling evidence.

Actually, the word that historians would use to describe the reflection (a very minimal reflection) that you think Genesis offers of the world's history is .................... underdetermined.

I will admit that, like you, I appreciate the fact that the basic layout of Genesis is a better descriptor of the world and its Ancient Near Eastern history than is anything we find in the Sumerian, Babylonian and Assyrian myths and accounts. But even so, that's not saying a whole lot because, let's face it, early world history as Moses saw it is only represented by about 1/5 th of the book of Genesis, and even that doesn't reflect a whole lot of detail or mirror much of what we now know about A.N.E. history during the Bronze Age.

However, some of the history that comes AFTER the Bronze Age and the Bronze Dark Ages does begin to reflect a bit better. But that is what we'd expect through the centuries going into the Iron Age and then into the Classical Age as different writers took up the chisel (maybe a pen) to carve out some words for posterity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Platte
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Perceiving the Bigger Picture
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
26,750
12,429
Space Mountain!
✟1,519,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It's important to your philosophy that the Jews were ignorant as a hay rake re the creation, isn't it?
You keep asserting imputations about "it's important to me about this or that."

No, it's NOT important to me or to my philosophy to say that the Jews were ignorant. In fact, my view of the ancient Hebrews, Israelites and Jews is probably more substantive than you're able to guess. ............. I say guess because that's what you do all too often and you have a common habit of not asking or caring about the answers other Christians can give.

So........... I don't offer them up front.

It's important to your philosophy that Jesus and His apostles or disciples were ignorant as a hay rake re the creation, isn't it?
You can't help yourself, can you?
Ah yes.

Intellectual superiority.

Brought to you by the halls of academia; dedicated to perpetuating the error of Baalim through science, history and the arts.

:doh:Y'know, I'm trying to be patient with you, but you're making it increasingly more difficult with all of your deprecating speech. Surely they don't teach you to talk this way at your church, right?
 
Upvote 0

Platte

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
1,758
288
57
Virginia
✟86,319.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
And once again: there is still the actual history that speaks of thing existing way before the date of supposed creation 6000 years ago. Just because you refuse to acknowledge it does not mean that it doesn't exist. You burying your head in the sand for your own interpretation of the Bible is nothing but intellectual cowardice.
I acknowledge that it exists but I also do not accept unverified dating methods on object as a matter of fact. No reasonable person should. And no one in the C14 dating business would ask you to accept their findings as fact. Its resonable for me or anyone else to suspect that if there are multiple reasons one cannot use C14 dating for anything in the past 400 years - that it would resonable to think it likely there are other unknown reasons that C14 dating could be skewed prior to that....such as, no considerating taking by C14 for the Flood - and the environmental changes that event would have triggered.

I don't accept anything as fact - including the Bible - but my belief is in the Bible - and if there is a verified fact that would change my belief - I'm more than happy to accept it. C14 is not a verified fact.
 
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Perceiving the Bigger Picture
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
26,750
12,429
Space Mountain!
✟1,519,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It's important to your philosophy that the Jews were ignorant as a hay rake re the creation, isn't it?



It's important to your philosophy that Jesus and His apostles or disciples were ignorant as a hay rake re the creation, isn't it?



Ah yes.

Intellectual superiority.

Brought to you by the halls of academia; dedicated to perpetuating the error of Baalim through science, history and the arts.

And to think that it was at an Independent Baptist church when I was 4 that I learned to sing, "Jesus loves the little children."

I'm not feeling very loved by you, AV.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,487
8,073
32
Wales
✟474,405.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
I acknowledge that it exists but I also do not accept unverified dating methods on object as a matter of fact. No reasonable person should. And no one in the C14 dating business would ask you to accept their findings as fact. Its resonable for me or anyone else to suspect that if there are multiple reasons one cannot use C14 dating for anything in the past 400 years - that it would resonable to think it likely there are other unknown reasons that C14 dating could be skewed prior to that....such as, no considerating taking by C14 for the Flood - and the environmental changes that event would have triggered.

I don't accept anything as fact - including the Bible - but my belief is in the Bible - and if there is a verified fact that would change my belief - I'm more than happy to accept it. C14 is not a verified fact.

You and others have not once submitted any actual truthful and verifiable reason why Carbon 14 dating can't be used other than the fact that it offends your personal interpretation of the Bible. Which is rank arrogance and intellectual cowardice all rolled into one neat package.

And it also ignores the fact that Carbon 14 is not the only way to date things, which really is not something that surprises me at all.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,333
3,264
Oregon
✟1,055,004.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
Hmmm

All those billions of years attesting to Jesus Christ; you'd think it would have told YOU of Him too.

What's your excuse for not listening?
Why do you think I haven't listened? You have no idea!!!!
 
Upvote 0

Platte

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
1,758
288
57
Virginia
✟86,319.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You and others have not once submitted any actual truthful and verifiable reason why Carbon 14 dating can't be used
LOL - thats classic.

You don't trust things that are not truthful or unverifiable either.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,142
52,819
Guam
✟5,227,027.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,487
8,073
32
Wales
✟474,405.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
LOL - thats classic.

You don't trust things that are not truthful or unverifiable either.

But I have no reason not to accept the radiometric dating and the date from it as untruthful or unverifiable. If it wasn't, there would be so much more conversations going on about the dating methods.

Once again: You burying your head in the sand for your own interpretation of the Bible is nothing but intellectual cowardice.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,142
52,819
Guam
✟5,227,027.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Once again: You burying your head in the sand for your own interpretation of the Bible is nothing but intellectual cowardice.

Speaking of sand, you do know where silicon comes from in the making of computer chips, don't you?

And what did Jesus say?

Mt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
16,487
8,073
32
Wales
✟474,405.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
Speaking of sand, you do know where silicon comes from in the making of computer chips, don't you?

And what did Jesus say?

Mt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Your non-sequiturs and constant desire to insert Biblical passages into any conversation you enter into can take a hike.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,333
3,264
Oregon
✟1,055,004.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
I acknowledge that it exists but I also do not accept unverified dating methods on object as a matter of fact. No reasonable person should. And no one in the C14 dating business would ask you to accept their findings as fact. Its resonable for me or anyone else to suspect that if there are multiple reasons one cannot use C14 dating for anything in the past 400 years - that it would resonable to think it likely there are other unknown reasons that C14 dating could be skewed prior to that....such as, no considerating taking by C14 for the Flood - and the environmental changes that event would have triggered.

I don't accept anything as fact - including the Bible - but my belief is in the Bible - and if there is a verified fact that would change my belief - I'm more than happy to accept it. C14 is not a verified fact.
And here like everything else that God's Creation is showing us, with your rejection of radiocarbon you are denying God's Creation as Created by God. You have been shown and have refused to accept how other aspects of God Creation are being used to address the limitation of radiocarbon testing. It's like you have a thing against God's own Creation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,142
52,819
Guam
✟5,227,027.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Your non-sequiturs and constant desire to insert Biblical passages into any conversation you enter into can take a hike.

So can your equating hermeneutics with zoology.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,333
3,264
Oregon
✟1,055,004.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
I think I do, but you probably won't listen.
I have to admit I have issues taking anyone seriously who says that asteroids and the craters left behind are angels having a show ball fight.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,857,142
52,819
Guam
✟5,227,027.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have to admit I have issues taking anyone seriously who says that asteroids and the craters left behind are angels having a snow ball fight.

Do you have a better explanation as to how space debris criss-crosses this universe, slamming into God's perfect creation and marring it up?
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
26,024
9,579
up there
✟417,553.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Do you have a better explanation as to how space debris criss-crosses this universe, slamming into God's perfect creation and marring it up?
Chaos in balance. What? Him worry?
 
Upvote 0