God did not create from nothing

Hans Blaster · 2026-06-05T12:41:47-0500

Platte said:
Creation occuring 6000 years ago is extremely far fetched -

agreed.

Platte said:
vs 4.6 billion.

No creation then, just a pre-solar nebula gathering dust into a planet with gravity.

Platte said:
In order to give Creation any plausibility you would need the impossible: History beginning 6000 years ago - and a civilization that begins with the Garden of Eden.

Which is why I don't believe in "creation" and never did. The "Garden of Eden" story dates back about 2500 years. I'm not impressed.

Platte · 2026-06-05T12:44:22-0500

Hans Blaster said:
agreed.

No creation then, just a pre-solar nebula gathering dust into a planet with gravity.

Which is why I don't believe in "creation" and never did. The "Garden of Eden" story dates back about 2500 years. I'm not impressed.

History beginning 6000 years ago - and a civilization that begins with the Garden of Eden.

Yeah that would be impossible!

Hans Blaster · 2026-06-05T12:45:17-0500

NxNW said:
Which was when?

Let's see...
There is the Columbia basin flood basalts, (17 Mya)
The Siberian Traps, (251 Mya)
The Deccan Traps, (66 Mya)

...

NxNW · 2026-06-05T12:59:55-0500

Hans Blaster said:
Let's see...
There is the Columbia basin flood basalts, (17 Mya)
The Siberian Traps, (251 Mya)
The Deccan Traps, (66 Mya)

...

That sounds like multiple creation events.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-05T13:08:33-0500

NxNW said:
Which was when?

4004 BC

Platte · 2026-06-05T13:08:41-0500

Platte said:
Creation occuring 6000 years ago is extremely far fetched - vs 4.6 billion. In order to give Creation any plausibility you would need the impossible: History beginning 6000 years ago - and a civilization that begins with the Garden of Eden.

@Hans Blaster
I take you for the type that doesn't believe in coincidences

AV1611VET · 2026-06-05T13:12:16-0500

Hans Blaster said:
The "Garden of Eden" story dates back about 2500 years. I'm not impressed.

I wouldn't be impressed either, if the Garden of Eden story dated back about 2500 years.

But it doesn't.

It dates back to about 4029 years.

What SPECIFICALLY are you using to date that story?

I contend your dating method is flawed.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-05T13:13:39-0500

Platte said:
History beginning 6000 years ago - and a civilization that begins with the Garden of Eden.

Yeah that would be impossible!

Must be a miracle! :clap:

Hans Blaster · 2026-06-05T13:53:48-0500

Platte said:
@Hans Blaster
I take you for the type that doesn't believe in coincidences

Coincidences happen. That the "counting" of years to a murky date in the past goes back to about when writing is first made doesn't seem that remarkable. Especially when there are pre-written artifacts of humanity in the same place that go back twice as far.

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-05T14:00:06-0500

Platte said:
True Story:
During my weekly meeting in DC a few months ago with the President's staff - A world leading Historian was in attendance (I cannot name). After the meeting I asked the Historian if they could please find me some History that goes back further than 6000 years - and PLEASE give me a civilization in History that is NOT placed at the Garden of Eden. The Historian, who didn't want to give me an off the cuff response, told me they would respond to me by next week.

Well at the next weekly meeting the Historian came up to me afterwards and said "Mr. Platte, I'm sorry but History only goes back 6000 years and I'm sorry but according to History the location of the first civilization was in the region of the Garden of Eden". Then he referred me to some scientists who may have other ideas on the matter.

You can't name a historian who spoke? Why not?

Platte · 2026-06-05T14:06:37-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
You can't name a historian who spoke? Why not?

Allegory. But true

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-05T14:08:53-0500

Platte said:
Allegory

Are you saying that the 'true story' you mention above is an allegory?

Platte · 2026-06-05T14:10:40-0500

Hans Blaster said:
Coincidences happen. That the "counting" of years to a murky date in the past goes back to about when writing is first made doesn't seem that remarkable. Especially when there are pre-written artifacts of humanity in the same place that go back twice as far.

Yeah real murky - take a detailed chronology in the Bible and it goes back to 6000 years ago. Then check all recorded History which just by coincidence also goes back 6000 years. Then look at the first civilization of History and that's Mesopotamia - in the same region of the Garden of Eden. That's pretty fricking remarkable. Same time, Same place.

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-05T14:14:28-0500

Platte said:
Yeah real murky - take a detailed chronology in the Bible and it goes back to 6000 years ago. Then check all recorded History which just by coincidence also goes back 6000 years. Then look at the first civilization of History and that's Mesopotamia - in the same region of the Garden of Eden. That's pretty fricking remarkable.

It's not remarkable. It's what we'd expect if the author (let's say it was Moses) was privy to some historicized traditions from Mesopotamia, and maybe some from Egypt, that remained extant sometime during the middle to late 2nd millennium BC. It's not a miracle and it's not an accidental coincidence that the writing in Genesis represents a Hebrew theological reflection of a few thousand years prior.

Platte · 2026-06-05T14:27:18-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
It's not remarkable. It's what we'd expect if the author (let's say it was Moses) was privy to some historicized traditions from Mesopotamia, and maybe some from Egypt, that remained extent sometime during the middle to late 2nd millennium BC. It's not a miracle and it's not an accidental coincidence that the writing in Genesis represents a Hebrew theological reflection of a few thousand years prior.

Yeah - that just so happens to reflect the entire world - and what the earliest Historical record and place in the entire world History.

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-05T14:32:55-0500

Platte said:
Yeah - that just so happens to reflect the entire world - and what the earliest Historical record and place in the entire world History.

Right. Genesis presents narratives that were meant to be comprehensive accounts of the world and its past as it was thought to be at that time. No one is disagreeing with that.

Platte · 2026-06-05T14:36:06-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
Right. Genesis presents narratives that were meant to be comprehensive accounts of the world and its past as it was thought to be at that time. No one is disagreeing with that.

Moses would have had no understanding of what was going on in Europe, Asia, or the America's....but History confirms his time and place of Creation as the earliest known time and place in History. Thats pretty remarkable. You can dismiss it if you want - but its a slap in the face you shouldn't ignore.

AV1611VET · 2026-06-05T14:47:45-0500

Hans Blaster said:
Coincidences happen. That the "counting" of years to a murky date in the past goes back to about when writing is first made doesn't seem that remarkable. Especially when there are pre-written artifacts of humanity in the same place that go back twice as far.

Are those dates just as "murky"?

AV1611VET · 2026-06-05T14:54:55-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
It's not a miracle and it's not an accidental coincidence that the writing in Genesis represents a Hebrew theological reflection of a few thousand years prior.

So Moses just made up a race of people living hundreds of years?

From AI Overview:

The average life expectancy at birth for a person living around 2500 BC—particularly in early civilization centers like Ancient Egypt—was very low, generally estimated to be between 20 and 35 years.

So Moses made all that up?

2PhiloVoid · 2026-06-05T15:27:59-0500

Platte said:
Moses would have had no understanding of what was going on in Europe, Asia, or the America's....but History confirms his time and place of Creation as the earlier known time and place in History. Thats pretty remarkable. You can dismiss it if you want - but its a slap in the face you shouldn't ignore.

It's not a slap in the face and you are apparently misunderstanding what I've said.

Secondly, no one today knows exactly WHERE the supposed Garden of Eden was or is, or if the Eden narrative is an ancient form of allegory representing what was known at that time about what we now call the Fertile Crescent. All we have regarding 'Eden' is an ancient Hebrew narrative describing it in the most scant of detail. Whether what we find in Genesis 2 and 3 is accurate or to what extent it may be accurate is unfortunately lost to the dust of time.

These facts don't destroy the sacred value that the Genesis narratives have for me or the idea that it is inspired by God in some sublime way, but much that either archaeology or anthropology might reveal to us about it remains either buried or destroyed.

God did not create from nothing

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