Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T16:35:43-0600

BobRyan said:
Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today (including the Sabbath Commandment in the TEN, though they edit it in many case to point to week day 1)

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

Fine: don't mind if I do.

Notice that while these sources all affirm all TEN even the SABBATH, they do grant some license to man's proclivity to edit God's law as Christ condemns that very tradition practice in Mark 7:7-13... yet man does so enjoy doing it.

Still they admit that all TEN remain... some folks won't even do that.

=================================== from Baptist Confession of Faith

Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 -- it is the TEN Commandments (not the much imagined downsized-nine) that are written on the heart under the New Covenant.

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws ... these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ ...

7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it

I was wondering how long it would take you to show us all the paragraphs in section 19 you needed to cull out, to make your case.

In the details I show, not excised out of the document .. I show the "inconvenient details " you seem to skim over as if "we simply would not notice.

Seriously? You really think that sort of thing works in the light of day?

My brother you are arguing a strawman. The Baptist confession of faith does not require following the law for salvation. Did you bother to read number 6 or were you so excited that you missed it? No one here has argued that the 10 are no longer valid. Thst has been your fallacy as you guys accuse us of invalidating or, most often, deleting the commandments. The teaching of the Baptist church in general is the same argument that I have put forward from the beginning. The 10 except for the 4th have been repeated into Jesus two love commandments and Jesus fulfilled the 4th commandment by becoming the Lord of the Sabbath and now our Christian rest. Here is what I posted earlier from the Baptist confession of Faith.

“As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he has particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him,28 which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's Day:29 and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.”

Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 22

www.the1689confession.com

As you can see your understanding and attempts at a aha moment has failed. The mainstream Baptist is not a legalist.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T17:00:55-0600

BobRyan said:
Notice that while these sources all affirm all TEN even the SABBATH, they do grant some license to man's proclivity to edit God's law as Christ condemns that very tradition practice in Mark 7:7-13... yet man does so enjoy doing it.

Still they admit that all TEN remain... some folks won't even do that.

=================================== from DL Moody's sermon on TEN Commandments

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

Fundamental Baptist Institute
http://www.fbinstitute.com/

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
BY THE DWIGHT L. MOODY

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17

.
The Fourth Commandment
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.

.
HOW TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.
…

Mr. Gladstone recently told a friend that the secret of his long life is that amid all the pressure of public cares he never forgot the Sabbath, with its rest for the body and the soul.

When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday,
…

Make the Sabbath a day of religious activity. First of all, of course, is attendance at public worship. "There is a discrepancy," says John McNeill, "between our creed about the Sabbath day and our actual conduct. In many families, at ten o'clock on the Sabbath, attendance at church is still an open question. There is no open question on Monday morning- 'John, will you go to work today.'"
…
Someone has said that without the Sabbath, the Church of Christ could not, as a visible organization, exist on earth.
…
Parents, if you want your children to grow up and honor you, have them honor the Sabbath day.

.
SABBATH DESECRATION

Men seem to think they have a right to change the holy day into a holiday. The young have more temptations to break the Sabbath than we had forty years ago.

.
PUNISHMENT OR BLESSING?

No nation has ever prospered that has trampled the Sabbath in the dust. Show me a nation that has done this and I will show you a nation that has got in it the seeds of ruin and decay. I believe that Sabbath desecration will carry a nation down quicker than anything else. Adam brought marriage and the Sabbath with him out of Eden, and neither can be disregarded without suffering. When the children of Israel went into the Promised Land, God told them to let their land rest every seven years, and He would give them as much in six years as in seven. For four hundred and ninety years they disregarded that law. But mark you, Nebuchadnezzar came and took them off into Babylon, and kept them seventy years in captivity, and the land had its seventy sabbaths of rest. Seven times seventy is four hundred and ninety. So they did not gain much by breaking this law. You can give God His day, or He will take it.

On the other hand, honoring the fourth commandment brings blessing:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." (Isaiah 58:13-14)

…

? Hasn't the time come to call a halt if men want power with God? Let men call you narrow and bigoted, but be man enough to stand by God's law, and you will have power and blessing. That is the kind of Christianity we want just now in this country. Any man can go with the crowd, but we want men who will go against the current.

Sabbath-breaker, are you ready to step into the scales?

lol Do you not read what you posted? Moody considers Sunday to be the sabbath day not Saturday. In fact he argues that any day can be the sabbath day. Even as a boy his sabbath lasted from sundown saturday to sundown Sunday. You jumped some sentences that you did not post because they don’t help you.

1. CESSATION FROM SECULAR WORK

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

WORKS OF NECESSITY AND OF EMERGENCY

In judging whether any work may or may not be lawfully done on the Sabbath, find out the reason and object for doing it. Exceptions are to be made for works of necessity and works of emergency. By “works of necessity” I mean those acts that Christ justified when He approved of leading one’s ox or ass to water. Watchmen, police, stokers on board steamers, and many others have engagements that necessitate their working on the Sabbath. By “works of emergency” I mean those referred to by Christ when He approved of pulling an ox or an ass out of a Pt on the Sabbath day. In case of fire or sickness a man is often called on to do things that would not otherwise be justifiable.

A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. “Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath, you may pull him out?” “Yes,” replied the other; “but if the ass had the habit of falling into the same pit every Sabbath, I would either fill up the pit or sell the ass.”

NECESSARY AND BENEFICIAL

The good effect on a nation’s health and happiness produced by the return of the Sabbath, with its cessation from work, cannot be overestimated. It is needed to repair and restore the body after six days of work. It is proved that a man can do more in six days than in seven. Lord Beacons field said: “Of all divine institutions, the most divine is that which secures a day of rest for man. I hold it to be the most valuable blessing conceded to man. It is the cornerstone of all civilization, and its removal might affect even the health of the people.”

Mr. Gladstone recently told a friend that the secret of his long life is that amid all the pressure of public cares he never forgot the Sabbath, with its rest for the body and the soul. The constitution of the United States protects the president in his weekly day of rest. He has ten days, “Sundays excepted,” in which to consider a bill that has been sent to him for signature. Every workingman in the republic ought to be as thoroughly protected as the president. If workingmen got up a strike against unnecessary work on the Sabbath, they would have the sympathy of a good many.

Even the president gets Sundays off when considering a bill.

The Ten Commandments - IV by D.L. Moody | The Jesus Site

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

www.jesussite.com

This one is a miss for you.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T17:14:52-0600

BobRyan said:
These sources continue to affirm all TEN even the SABBATH, they do grant some license to man's proclivity to edit God's law as Christ condemns that very tradition practice in Mark 7:7-13... yet man does so enjoy doing it.

Still they admit that all TEN remain... some folks won't even do that.

=========================================Westminster Confession of Faith 1646

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

Chapter 19. Of the Law of God.

19.1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

19.2. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.

19.3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All such ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the New Testament.

19.4. To them also, as a body politic, he gave various judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any other, now, further than the general equity of it may require.

19.5. The moral law forever binds all, as well justified persons as others, to obedience to it; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither does Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.

19.6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves by it, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin, and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse of it threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance of it; although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works: so as a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one, and deterres from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law, and not under grace.

19.7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it: the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

You still did not read what you posted. Read 19.6. The law of God is not necessary for salvation but it is profitable as I’ve always argued Given thst 9 of the commandments were repeated into Jesus two love commandments with Jesus fulfilling the 4th by becoming the Lord of the Sabbath and our Christian rest forever. Here is what the Westminster Confession of Faith says about the Sabbath In chapter 21 section 7.

“As it is of the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto Him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which in Scripture is called the Lord’s Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath.”

The Westminster Confession of Faith - Ligonier Ministries

CHAPTER 1 Of the Holy Scripture Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence, do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of G

learn.ligonier.org

The link that you posted is broken which tells me that you are copying your so called evidence from a website that gathered what they thought was a defense for the law and the sabbath but as you can see they failed.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T17:23:33-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
So now you’re going to admit it’s the Baptist manual? Looks like he was coming around to God’s Truth by the quotes I posted from him.

I never denied that it was. I said that we do not use it. You have to deal with reality not what you thought.

BobRyan · 2025-12-13T17:41:26-0600

BobRyan said:
These sources continue to affirm all TEN even the SABBATH, they do grant some license to man's proclivity to edit God's law as Christ condemns that very tradition practice in Mark 7:7-13... yet man does so enjoy doing it.

Still they admit that all TEN remain... some folks won't even do that.

notice the "please don't keep the Sabbath, Sabbath is not for mankind" language is entirely missing from the following

BobRyan said:
=========================================Westminster Confession of Faith 1646

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

Chapter 19. Of the Law of God.

19.1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

19.2. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.

19.3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All such ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the New Testament.

19.4. To them also, as a body politic, he gave various judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any other, now, further than the general equity of it may require.

BobRyan said:
19.5. The moral law forever binds all, as well justified persons as others, to obedience to it; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither does Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.

BobRyan said:
19.6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts, and lives; so as, examining themselves by it, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin; together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin, and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve, and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them, although freed from the curse of it threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance of it; although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works: so as a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one, and deterres from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law, and not under grace.

19.7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it: the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Hentenza said:
Did you actually read 19.6?

Since I am quoting, and bolding section 19 above including all the sections you are carefully avoiding in section 19? err umm "yeah"

Hentenza said:
The law is not salvific, never was.

I think that is one of the very few points where your side and my side agree.

Hentenza said:
Your church makes the law necessary for salvation

That's Paul... perhaps you have mistaken me for Paul.

"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3;31
Rom 4 "where there is no LAW there is NO SIN"
The new Covenant writes the LAW of God on the heart Heb 8, Rom 2, Jer 31:31-34
The reason salvation is needed is because God's Law exists and defines what sin is.

Hentenza said:
while what you just posted and the first list of both people and groups do not consider the law to save anyone.

a point where all sides agree.

You should settle in on the differences

Hentenza said:
My argument about the 10 has always been that 9 have been repeated

Sabbath is in the NT the one that is not repeated is "Do no take God's name in vain" . It is never quoted even in part in the NT.

Hentenza said:
into Jesus two love commandments

Jesus' Commands in Matt 22 are directly from the LAW of Moses

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18..

And in Matt 22 Jesus said those two commands in the LAW of Moses are the bedrock foundation for all of scripture itself. He does not say that the part of the LAW of Moses you claim to prefer in Matt 22 is the "hammer that deletes all of scripture". Maybe we both can agree on that as well.

Hentenza said:
and Jesus fulfilled the 4th commandment by becoming the Lord of the Sabbath and the Christian rest forever.

So your comparisons are apples to oranges and are not helping you at all. No one here that is not a legalist is all of a sudden going to change their minds and become a legalist. You need to stop preaching a faith plus the works of the law for salvation. That is not biblical.

Yarddog · 2025-12-13T17:56:09-0600

trophy33 said:
Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

We keep the Sabbath holy by putting faith on Jesus Christ and not on our ability to obey the law. We are alive in God's rest through faith.

BobRyan · 2025-12-13T17:59:35-0600

Hentenza said:
You still did not read what you posted. Read 19.6.

read it. posted it, and bold underlined it. As well as reading and posting and bold underlining all those other paragraphs in section 19 that you have carefully ignored in response.

Hentenza said:
The law of God is not necessary for salvation but it is profitable

True. One of the parts where both sides agree. The Law is not saving people, grace is.

If God was willing to simply delete His own Law then He need not have paid our debt of sin demanded by His Law.

Rom 3:31 "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Hentenza said:
as I’ve always argued Given thst 9 of the commandments were repeated into Jesus

Not even once do we find the command quoted by Jesus or any NT author saying "Do not take God's name in vain".

But we do find gospel preaching in worship service "Every Sabbath" in the New Testament and we see direct quotes from the SAbbath commandment in Rev 4:17, Heb 4, and Acts 17

Hentenza said:
The link that you posted is broken which tells me that you are copying your so called evidence from a website that gathered what they thought was a defense for the law and the sabbath but as you can see they failed.

It tells me that they moved their website from what it was when I copied their text. (Obviously things change over time)

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T18:02:06-0600

BobRyan said:
Since I am quoting, and bolding section 19 above including all the sections you are carefully avoiding in section 19? err umm "yeah"

So did you actually read it. You know that it does not help your case right?

BobRyan said:
I think that is one of the very few points where your side and my side agree.

Not according to your church. Your church add works of the law for salvation such as sabbath keeping and the dietary laws.

BobRyan said:
That's Paul... perhaps you have mistaken me for Paul.

"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3;31
Rom 4 "where there is no LAW there is NO SIN"
The new Covenant writes the LAW of God on the heart Heb 8, Rom 2, Jer 31:31-34

Your verse mining guarantees an incorrect interpretation. As I stated above your church adds works of the law to the salvation formula.

BobRyan said:
a point where all sides agree.

You should settle in on the differences

We can’t settle our differences because we are on opposite sides. The scriptures teach that salvation is by the grace of God through faith without works but your church teach that salvation is by faith plus the works of the law. The faster you realize this the faster you can get away from legalism.

BobRyan said:
Sabbath is in the NT the one that is not repeated is "Do no take God's name in vain" . It is never quoted even in part in the NT.

It’s implied while the 4th commandment is not even implied. Jesus became the Lord of the sabbath. Why didn't Jesus become the Lord of the “do not take the name of God in vain“ commandment? Do you really not see it?

BobRyan said:
Jesus' Commands in Matt 22 are directly from the LAW of Moses

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18..

‘Yep. And?

BobRyan said:
And in Matt 22 Jesus said those two commands in the LAW of Moses are the bedrock foundation for all of scripture itself. He does not say that the part of the LAW of Moses you claim to prefer in Matt 22 is the "hammer that deletes all of scripture". Maybe we both can agree on that as well.

Why do you continue to add theological drama to your argument? You do know that is an emotional fallacy right? Do you not know that we are under the ministry of the Spirit? That we no longer need a tutor? That Christ died for the sins of the world? That the law does not justify or lead us to repentance?

BobRyan · 2025-12-13T18:17:22-0600

notice the "please don't keep the Sabbath, Sabbath is not for mankind" language is entirely missing from the following

Hentenza said:
So did you actually read it. You know that it does not help your case right?

You can't simply imagine your case... you have to make one.

Hentenza said:
Not according to your church. Your church add works of the law for salvation such as sabbath keeping

My church is the church of 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rom 3:31 "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Hentenza said:
Your verse mining guarantees an incorrect interpretation.

False. My ability to show that the Bible refutes your little quips is key to this discussion.
Your ability to repeat accusations is of course, impressive, however transparent.

Hentenza said:
As I stated above your church adds works of the law to the salvation formula.

sadly you did not prove anything. I agree that the Bible exists, it is the Word of God and saints are called to obey the word of God, not as a means of salvation but as the fruit of salvation.

Rom 8:4-9 states clearly that the lost are at war with God and His law. Have you read it?

Hentenza said:
We can’t settle our differences because we are on opposite sides

having differences in POV is nothing new on this board but as we have seen the major Christian confessions of faith refute your rejection of God Commandments. Your only solution is to ignore them even after you yourself asked me to post a few of them for you.

It just does not get any easier than this for readers to see the issues plainly.

Hentenza said:
. The scriptures teach that salvation is by the grace of God through faith

One of the very few places where you and I agree.

Hentenza said:
without works but your church teach that salvation is by faith plus the works of the law. The faster you realize this the faster you can get away from legalism.

It’s implied while the 4th commandment is not even implied.

We see "EVERY Sabbath" gospel preaching and worship services explicitly to both gentiles and Jews in Acts 18:. This has been repeated for you several times and your only solution is to ignore it.

Just like your only solution to the main text of section 19 in the Westminster and Baptist Confessions of faith has been to ignore what it says.

Hentenza said:
Jesus became the Lord of the sabbath.

Jesus always was the Lord of the Sabbath. You need to read more. Heb 8 says it is Jesus in Exodus 20 speaking the TEN.

Read more, quip less to make a good compelling case.

Hentenza said:
Why didn't Jesus become the Lord of the “do not take the name of God in vain“

Nothing says "Jesus became the Lord" of some part of God's Law because Jesus IS God, He is the Law giver as Heb 8 points out in regard to Sinai. This is why all the confessions of faith that I showed to you (and more also) affirm this point about the TEN

read more.

Hentenza said:
Why do you continue to add theological drama to your argument?

When you see Bible texts that go against your preferences you call it "theological drama"? Seriously?

Hentenza said:
Do you not know that we are under the ministry of the Spirit? That we no longer need a tutor? That Christ died for the sins of the world? That the law does not justify or lead us to repentance?

That has been true since Adam.

Rev 1 Jesus was slain "from the foundations of the world".

Gal 1:6-9 there has only been one gospel
Gal 3:8 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

The protoevangelium is in Gen 3.

You need to read more

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T18:17:50-0600

BobRyan said:
when people argue against the Sabbath commandment claiming it would be legalism to obey God's commandment, and when they argue against the command that says not to make images and bow down before them and offer to serve them... saying that to do as God says is "legalism" they miss the fact that we all know "do not take God's name in vain" should be obeyed also , just as it says, even though it is never quoted in the NT.

This detail keeps coming up

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today (including the Sabbath Commandment in the TEN, though they edit it in many case to point to week day 1)

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

Well only problem is that the covenant made with Abraham is broken, just like Moses broke the tablets.

7So I became the shepherd of the flock doomed to be slaughtered by the sheep traders. And I took two staffs, one I named Favor, the other I named Union. And I tended the sheep. 8In one month I destroyed the three shepherds. But I became impatient with them, and they also detested me. 9So I said, “I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die. What is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed. And let those who are left devour the flesh of one another.” 10And I took my staff Favor, and I broke it, annulling the covenant that I had made with all the peoples. 11So it was annulled on that day, and the sheep traders, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD. 12Then I said to them, “If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.” And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. 13Then the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD, to the potter. 14Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

So the Sabbath that remains is the one we enter through faith which has been so eloquently explained by Paul.

BobRyan · 2025-12-13T18:25:59-0600

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today (including the Sabbath Commandment in the TEN, though they edit it in many case to point to week day 1)

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

jonojim1337 said:
Well only problem is that the covenant made with Abraham is broken, just like Moses broke the tablets.

Gal 3:8 "The gospel was preached to Abraham". That promise is not broken. It is the "one and only gospel" Gal 1:6-9.
And that is precisely how it is that Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 even before the cross event even happens.

"The gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1-2

jonojim1337 said:
So the Sabbath that remains is the one we enter through faith which has been so eloquently explained by Paul.

The Sabbath has always been entered into by the people of faith, by faith alone , since the fall of Adam. Under the One and only Gospel of HEb 4 "the gospel was preached to us JUST AS IT WAS to them also" Heb 4;2.

So then it is no wonder that in Is 66:23 we read that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

God's moral Law continues just as all the major Confessions of faith confirm in Christianity

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T18:42:59-0600

BobRyan said:
Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today (including the Sabbath Commandment in the TEN, though they edit it in many case to point to week day 1)

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

Gal 3:8 "The gospel was preached to Abraham". That promise is not broken. It is the "one and only gospel" Gal 1:6-9.
And that is precisely how it is that Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 even before the cross event even happens.

"The gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1-2

The Sabbath has always been entered into by the people of faith, by faith alone , since the fall of Adam. Under the One and only Gospel of HEb 4 "the gospel was preached to us JUST AS IT WAS to them also" Heb 4;2.

So then it is no wonder that in Is 66:23 we read that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

God's moral Law continues just as all the major Confessions of faith confirm in Christianity

Law, covenant and promise are different things however.

19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

BobRyan · 2025-12-13T18:51:49-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Law, covenant and promise are different things however.

19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

It was always a sin to take God's name in vain, worship idols, murder etc.

Rom 4 "where there is no law there is no sin"

Gal 3 is not talking about the Law not existing, it is talking about the Law in written form at Sinai.

1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the Law"
Gen 3 God says to Cain "sin is at your door, you must overcome it"
No explicit command said "do not murder" but from the text it is clear that that was already known.

In Gen 7 the clean animals are taken into the ark by pairs of 7, the unclean by two's. But we don't find the definition of clean vs unclean until Lev 11.

The book of Genesis does not record every word ever spoken for the first 2000 years

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T19:14:55-0600

BobRyan said:
It was always a sin to take God's name in vain, worship idols, murder etc.

Rom 4 "where there is no law there is no sin"

Gal 3 is not talking about the Law not existing, it is talking about the Law in written form at Sinai.

1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the Law"
Gen 3 God says to Cain "sin is at your door, you must overcome it"
No explicit command said "do not murder" but from the text it is clear that that was already known.

In Gen 7 the clean animals are taken into the ark by pairs of 7, the unclean by two's. But we don't find the definition of clean vs unclean until Lev 11.

The book of Genesis does not record every word ever spoken for the first 2000 years

Well I think we can summarise the only place where there is no sin, and no law, is in Christ.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T19:37:07-0600

BobRyan said:
notice the "please don't keep the Sabbath, Sabbath is not for mankind" language is entirely missing from the following

And yet all of the “evidence@ you posted so far show that the sabbath is celebrated on Sunday by the churches.

BobRyan said:
You can't simply imagine your case... you have to make one.

I’ve been making one here for quite some time. Tell me, can you post a verse where the sabbath was kept before Moses? Can you show a post resurrection verse that teaches that the church has to keep the sabbath? Can you post a verse that shows that the law was given to the gentiles collectively?

BobRyan said:
My church is the church of 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rom 3:31 "do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

No. Your church is the legalist church that requires works of the law for salvation. Can you be saved if you don’t keep the sabbath?

BobRyan said:
False. My ability to show that the Bible refutes your little quips is key to this discussion.
Your ability to repeat accusations is of course, impressive, however transparent.

How? Your “evidence” is no evidence at all. You thought that you had an aha moment but you did not. The confessions that you posted said that the Christian is not under the law and the sabbath is on Sunday. Can you prove otherwise?

BobRyan said:
sadly you did not prove anything. I agree that the Bible exists, it is the Word of God and saints are called to obey the word of God, not as a means of salvation but as the fruit of salvation.

Rom 8:4-9 states clearly that the lost are at war with God and His law. Have you read it?

But your church and you add works to the salvation formula. What do you think Paul means when he states:

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 (NASB2020) - Therefore there is now no condemnat | YouVersion

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

Is the law strong? Does the law benefit us? Do we walk according to the law or according to the Spirit?

BobRyan said:
having differences in POV is nothing new on this board but as we have seen the major Christian confessions of faith refute your rejection of God Commandments. Your only solution is to ignore them even after you yourself asked me to post a few of them for you. just does not get any easier than this for readers to see the issues plainly.

This is again a Strawman. I have never rejected God’s commandments. You continue to misrepresent my argument. Here let me explain it one more time. The Ten Commandments were repeated into Jesus two commandments except for the 4th commandments which Jesus fulfilled by becoming the Lord of the sabbath and our Christian rest. There, can you stop misrepresenting my argument?

BobRyan said:
One of the very few places where you and I agree.

But we don’t agree. You and your church teach a faith plus works of the law salvation because you and your church believe that sabbath keeping is required for salvation. As long as you believe that we will never agree.

BobRyan said:
We see "EVERY Sabbath" gospel preaching and worship services explicitly to both gentiles and Jews in Acts 18:. This has been repeated for you several times and your only solution is to ignore it.

Just like your only solution to the main text of section 19 in the Westminster and Baptist Confessions of faith has been to ignore what it says.

The confessions do not say what you claim. I even posted the parts related to the sabbath but you ignored them. You can’t just force something to say what you want,

BobRyan said:
Jesus always was the Lord of the Sabbath. You need to read more. Heb 8 says it is Jesus in Exodus 20 speaking the TEN.

It isn’t. Nothing in Heb 7 that stated ad such. Exodus 20 relates to the law given to Israel not to the church.

BobRyan said:
Read more, quip less to make a good compelling case.

Nothing says "Jesus became the Lord" of some part of God's Law because Jesus IS God, He is the Law giver as Heb 8 points out in regard to Sinai. This is why all the confessions of faith that I showed to you (and more also) affirm this point about the TEN

Jesus became Lord of the Sabbath. Scriptures is clear about that, is it not?

BobRyan said:
read more.

When you see Bible texts that go against your preferences you call it "theological drama"? Seriously?

Yes seriously. Go back and read your posts.

BobRyan said:
That has been true since Adam.

Rev 1 Jesus was slain "from the foundations of the world".

Gal 1:6-9 there has only been one gospel
Gal 3:8 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

And yet God did not give the 4th commandment to Abraham. Why is that?

BobRyan said:
The protoevangelium is in Gen 3.

You need to read more

Is it now? Why do t you post it. While you are at it why don’t you post a verse that shows that the sabbath was kept before Moses? How about a verse that shows that the law was given to the gentiles collectively?

SabbathBlessings · 2025-12-13T19:52:05-0600

Not one translation uses Jesus “became” the Lord of the Sabbath. Adding “became” to God’s Holy Word, when its clearly not there, is making Jesus into the creation, instead of the Creator of the Sabbath and everything else Exo20:11, what He says He is Lord of the Sabbath.

New International Version
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

New Living Translation
So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!”

English Standard Version
So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Berean Literal Bible
So then, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

King James Bible
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

New King James Version
Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

New American Standard Bible
So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

NASB 1995
“So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

NASB 1977
“Consequently, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Legacy Standard Bible
Consequently the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Amplified Bible
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath [and He has authority over it].”

Christian Standard Bible
So then, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

American Standard Version
so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

Contemporary English Version
So the Son of Man is Lord over the Sabbath."

English Revised Version
so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
For this reason the Son of Man has authority over the day of worship."

Good News Translation
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

International Standard Version
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

NET Bible
For this reason the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."

New Heart English Bible
Therefore the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Weymouth New Testament
so that the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T19:56:53-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
Not one translation uses Jesus “became” the Lord of the Sabbath. Adding “became” to God’s Holy Word, when its clearly not there, is making Jesus into the creation, instead of the Creator of the Sabbath and everything else Exo20:11, what He says He is Lord of the Sabbath.

New International Version
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

New Living Translation
So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!”

English Standard Version
So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Berean Literal Bible
So then, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

King James Bible
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

New King James Version
Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

New American Standard Bible
So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

NASB 1995
“So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

NASB 1977
“Consequently, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Legacy Standard Bible
Consequently the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Amplified Bible
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath [and He has authority over it].”

Christian Standard Bible
So then, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

American Standard Version
so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

Contemporary English Version
So the Son of Man is Lord over the Sabbath."

English Revised Version
so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
For this reason the Son of Man has authority over the day of worship."

Good News Translation
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

International Standard Version
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

NET Bible
For this reason the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."

New Heart English Bible
Therefore the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Weymouth New Testament
so that the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Is Jesus not Lord of the Sabbath?

SabbathBlessings · 2025-12-13T19:58:09-0600

Hentenza said:
Is Jesus not Lord of the Sabbath?

That’s not what you said and you know it.

Jesus became Lord of the Sabbath.

You said He “became” the Lord of the Sabbath when He has always been Lord of the Sabbath, as it is the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa58:13. Let’s not place our words in His mouth. He doesn’t not need our help and asks us not to Pro30:6

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:04:50-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
That’s not what you said and you know it.

You said He “became” the Lord of The Sabbath when He has always been Lord of the Sabbath, as it is the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa58:13. Let’s not place our words in His mouth. He doesn’t not need our help and ask us not to Pro30:6

You don’t get it do you?

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

The sabbath is made for man, Jesus is a man, now Jesus, as both God and man (the Son of man), is Lord of the sabbath. Jesus could not have been Lord of the sabbath until He became man and fulfilled the law.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-12-13T20:07:50-0600

Hentenza said:
You don’t get it do you?

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

The sabbath is made for man, Jesus is a man, now Jesus, as both God and man (the Son of man), is Lord of the sabbath. Jesus could not have been Lord of the sabbath until He became man and fulfilled the law.

Your words, not His. Why we are told not to add to them. Pro30:6

Jesus is referring back to when man and the Sabbath was was made at Creation Gen1:26 Gen2:1-3 what the Sabbath points to Exo20:11 which is Jesus, our Creator. He never became anything, that’s someone who is created why it says He is Lord of the Sabbath, not became the Lord of The Sabbath, your words, not God’s. I am sticking with God’s but we have free will and it gets sorted out in His time soon enough.

Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

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