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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Do you actually keep the Sabbath as outlined in the 4th commandment?


  • Total voters
    21

Hentenza

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Regarding Mark7:19 this is what was in the original transcripts

καθαρίζων πάντα τὰ βρώματα
Katharizōn panta ta brōmata
Literally: "cleansing all foods"

The phrase modifies the digestion process, not food laws.
You kidding right? I thought I had heard it all. First you claim that it was an addition but when I point you to the codex Sinaiticus and you realize your error, you now invent some other excuse to continue trying to put the Mosaic law back on the Christian’s back. There is absolutely nothing in this verse about digestion. The food laws are gone just like the rest of the Mosaic law.

Secondly, you still have not posted a verse that shows that the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You kidding right? I thought I had heard it all. First you claim that it was an addition but when I point you to the codex Sinaiticus and you realize your error, you now invent some other excuse to continue trying to put the Mosaic law back on the Christian’s back. There is absolutely nothing in this verse about digestion. The food laws are gone just like the rest of the Mosaic law.

Secondly, you still have not posted a verse that shows that the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles.
You have not posted one verse that says God's commandments are really the commandments of Moses when God identified them as His, numbered them, wrote them and Have His name in each of them that pertain to how we love God. Moses is not mentioned once.

A parable is not meant to take literal. When Jesus literally tells you what the parable He is speaking about means Mark7:20 Mat15:15-20 faith is about believing Him. But just like those before us, didn't either Mat15:14 probably best I take His advise on this as well. We can debate this but what we say or think does not matter. God spoke clearly on this subject as He did on many others. He will be the one to sort this out.

I do wish you well.
 
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Hentenza

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You have not posted one verse that says God's commandment meant Moses
What do you mean? The Mosaic law WAS given to Moses to give to Israel.
or that Moses is God
Nope. He isn’t.
or that God's people do not need to keep God's commandments.
Never argued that so Strawman. The thing is that now we walk in the Spirit which guides us and shows us the way to repentance which is something that the law never could do.
Or that God made a mistake when He stated clearly what we eat has some serious consequences. Isa66:17
No mistake. He gave that command to those under the law, Israel. He did not give that command to the gentiles. In fact, you can read which commandments were repeated to be part of Jesus two love commandments and the dietary laws were not,
When Jesus literally tells you what the parable He is speaking about means Mark7:20 Mat15:15-20 faith is about believing Him. But just like those before us, didn't either Mat15:14 probably best I take His advise on this as well.
Jesus literally tells you that He fulfilled the law and that all foods are clean. Literally.

Still waiting for that verse that shows that the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles.
 
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DamianWarS

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Paul did not redefine what God stated
You're right, he uses his own words. Words have the power to express difference things in different contexts and Paul has the freedom to use his words creatively. In the case of 1 Cor 7:19 we have the uniquely ability to compare it with 2 other mirror verses (Gal 5:6, Gal 6:15) that carry the same meaning for greater clarity. Paul is not challenging what Christ said in Mat 15 and Mark 7 but is making a different point and his point is regarding the new creation not the 10 commandments.

Youseem to get locked into narrow view and refuse to see another view. I admit if it were not for Galatians the passage would be difficult to understand as to Paul's specific meaning. But since we do have Galatians and the similarities of the verses in questions have such a striking resemblance to ingore them would be irresponsible.
 
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Studyman

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Because you left the context of Galatians 2. The issue is Titus not being compelled to be circumcised. NOT how it is fulfilled in and through Christ.

The Circumcision Paul speaks to here, is the Circumcision Jesus was a Minister of, that Paul was also made a minster of. A Circumcision of the Heart, as Moses teaches. A circumcision rejected by the Pharisees, the wicked Kings of Israel, the Israelites that fell in the Wilderness, Sodom, and many others according to the God inspired Holy Scriptures. A Circumcision rejected by the Jews who were bewitching the Galatians, who crept unawares to seduce and influence the Church of God, including Titus.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified "by Christ", we ourselves also are found sinners,

Isn't vexing the Non-Jew who chooses to Join himself to the Lord, "walking not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel"?

is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again (The Doctrines and Traditions of the religion who defiled me in the first place) the things which I destroyed, (Like persecuting the Church of God) I make myself a transgressor.

By Titus' refusal to be circumcised, he was not heeding what was written in the Law by the understanding of those in Jerusalem .

Yes, These preachers who contended with them, were ignorant of God's Law, and had gone about establishing their own. They rejected God's Commandments in favor of their own traditions. If they had been faithful and obedient to God like Zacharias, Simeon, and Anna, they would have received the Spirit of Truth that God gives to those who obey Him, and would have known the Christ, as Zacharias and Simeon knew Christ.

Paul told us "why" these men who had become fools, who were bewitching to Galatians with their doctrine in Romans 1:21,22.

This issue, not fellowshipping with Gentiles and taking on their customs is all being said in context verse 16 where it states

There is no "LAW" of God that directed His People to not fellowship with faithful non-Jews. In Fact, God's Law specifically states;

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger (non-Jew) that dwelleth with you "shall be unto you as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Those Galatians who Peter was fellowshipping with, had received the Holy Spirit from God, according to Paul's own words. Are they not exactly what this LAW is referring to? And yet the Pharisees didn't consider them as children of Abraham at all. And Peter was influenced by their wicked doctrines. Peter was "transgressing God's Laws", by separating himself from these "non-Jews" who "Believed" to go sit with the mainstream preachers of that time, that didn't believe. And Paul rebuked him for his disobedience, as also required by God's Law..

So this behavior of eating or fellowshipping with faithful Gentiles, "CANNOT" be the "works of the Law" that the children of the devil were promoting to the Galatians.

I'm not going to address the same points over and over with you. But I would like to address a few of the things that I know you are mistaken about. And I know these things are the result of the influence we are surrounded with as I was influenced by them as well. So it isn't meant to demean or insult, just point out.


We are not made righteous by the works of the Law, by what we do if it is not through the faith of Jesus Christ.

What does it mean, "The Faith of Jesus"? I think it means "Living by" God's Instruction in righteousness, in a world where no one really believes in Him. Like Noah, and Abraham, and Moses and Caleb, and David and Danial and Shadrack and Abednego and Zacharias and Simeon and EVERY EXAMPLE of Faithful man given to us by the God and Father of all. Just as the Christ Jesus Himself did! In fact, it isn't my will that matters, it's God's Will. My will killed me. But Jesus made me alive so I can choose this time to "deny myself" and follow Him. "Lo, in a volume of a book it is written", I come to do Thy will Oh Lord".

Eating with would be considered fellowshipping, wouldn't it?

Gentiles would be unbelievers, unclean, heathen in the Jews eyes.

First, Who is teaching you that the Galatians Peter was fellowshipping with were "Unbelievers"? And it was a mistake for men to listen to the Pharisees, children of the devil then, why are men still listening to them today?

The Jews have a law in the Book of the Law about not mingling with people who were not of Israel.

No they don't. You have been taught that the Jews religion was a religion that promoted obedience to God's Laws. That they were trying to earn salvation by obeying God's Laws. This is an insidious lie, and a Leaven that infects everyone who adopts it. It's not true brother.

Gen. 17: 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, "and he that is bought with thy money", must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger (Non-Jew) shall sojourn with thee, "and will keep the passover to the LORD", let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger (Non-Jew) that sojourneth among you.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger (Non-Jew) sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger (Non-Jew) that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers (non-Jews "inwardly") in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is. 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man (Jew or Gentile) that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger (Non-Jew), that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD "hath utterly separated me from his people": neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

And yet, I have heard religious men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, further the religious philosophy of the Pharisees, that it was GOD's Law that relegated faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens "from the commonwealth of Israel", and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

But when we read the Book of the Law, and the Prophets ourself, hear what it is saying my friend. God literally said to the Non-Jew who turned to Him, "Don't Say The LORD "hath utterly separated me from his people".

This is the reason why I replied to your Colossians sermon.

4 For thus saith the LORD "unto the eunuchs" that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 "Even unto them" will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And to drive this home, because God knew we would be living in a world with these evil doctrines, HE continues.

6 Also the sons of the stranger (Non-Jew), that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So here we are, surrounded by this worlds religions who preach to anyone who will listen to them, that it was God's Laws that caused the Wall of Separation" between Faithful Gentiles and Jews. They preach that it was God's Laws that relegated the faithful Gentile as "without Christ, being aliens "from the commonwealth of Israel", and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

That is was God's Laws that were against Jesus, Paul and the Church of God, that Jesus nailed to the Cross.

But it's a deception as anyone can see, who is seeking the "Circumcision" Jesus was a minister of, the Truth of God.

The question is, do men believe Him?

Peter and the Disciples knew this was not an issue anymore through the Body of Christ,

It was NEVER an issue with God for a Non-Jew to turn to Him. It was always an issue with the rebellious, "uncircumcised of heart" Jews. Why do you think God sent Israel on their journey if not in part, as a witness for Him? A witness to Whom, If not "Non-Jews"? Will you at least answer this question?

Rom. 2: 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed "among the Gentiles through you", as it is written.

Mal. 1: 11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, "and a pure offering": for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 But ye have profaned it, "in that ye say", The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.

In other words, they say, "God's Laws are impossible to obey, a Yoke of Bondage HE placed on our necks, and they are against us.
 
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Studyman

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1 Cor 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Gal 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

These 3 verses are mirror versions of each other. In the 3 verses circumcision is addressed as nothing or without value.

That is popular religious philosophy in this world God placed me it. But consider what is actually written.

18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Perhaps you can explain how a person who is "circumcised" can become "uncircumcised".

Of course Paul isn't talking about Literal cutting loose skin of a man's penis. But I understand how powerful tradition and pride can be in the uncircumcised heart.

I'm not making a statement as to the broader meaning of circumcision just that in these verses they all follow the same format. Circumsion is negated and contrasted with "what counts".

But Paul calls the Pharisees or "Jews religion" "The Circumcision", this is undeniable Biblical Truth. He calls Non-Jews, "the uncircumcision". This is undeniable as well. So in each verse, Jew and Gentile actually fit the context of the message more clearly that trying to figure out how to get the skin put back on.

And as it is written, Jesus was the "Minister of Circumcision" and HE made Paul a minister of the same Circumcision as well. A Circumcision promoted by Moses, that is, "circumcision of the heart". So to say "Circumcision" doesn't matter, is not true.

A deeper study on circumcision would no doubt show us a lot more than something without any value but as for these verses that's the focus it takes with a goal to highlight the "what counts" part.

Well it's certainly true that there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, contrary to the "Jews Religion" who Full well rejected the commandments of god that they might keep their own traditions. But there is "Circumcision" of the heart. So I would be careful not to let popular religious philosophy influence the reading of the Scriptures.
 
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