Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

linux.poet · 2025-11-15T23:28:39-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
do not believe that is what under the law means, that we can sin now and break God’s laws, which is the definition of sin 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 Mat5:19-30

That is not correct. The definition of sin is simple: to do what God tells us not to do or to not do what God says to do. This is evident from the Garden of Eden in Genesis 1-3. Adam and Eve ate the apple God told them not to eat and thus were banished from the Garden. None of the Scriptures cited above disprove what I just said.

The purpose of the Law - Decalogue and all the rest of it - was to show that we, as fallen human beings, cannot follow God’s commands no matter what commands are given. God is Holy, and we are not, so any instructions He gives we will fall short of.

Romans 3:20 said:
For no human will be justified before him by deeds prescribed by the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 8:6-8 said:
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Believe it or not, people longed for relationship to God, to know and be known by Him. If you doubt me on this, take a good read of the Psalms. (People longed for what we have today, and what we have is so much better than they could ever imagine: God as our Father, Christ as Our Bride, and the Holy Spirit inside of us FOREVER.) So, out of love, God gave us a set of commands and he said “Follow this.” The idea was simple: through the Law, we became aware of our sin problem. God was saying “This is your relationship to me. You are not following my commands. You are no better than your father Adam.” The Law was meant to show us that.

SabbathBlessings said:
laws. The law that is perfect Psa19:7 cannot be the same law that is contrary and against Col2:14KJV.

It is. There is nothing to preclude God from updating His commands to us at any time in response to our success or failure in dealing with Him. All of His commands are perfect and holy, but not all are sufficient to deal with our fallen condition.

SabbathBlessings said:
The law that defines sin (1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 Mat5:19-30) cannot be the same law that was added because of sin (animal sacrifices).

Sin is not defined by the Law. It is defined by God as whatever displeases Him that He wants to write a command against. The Law was given to a specific people (the nation of Israel) during a specific period of time. Our Lord Jesus updated those commands in His Sermon on the Mount. He’s allowed to do that because He is God. God is inherently allowed to give humans commands. That authority is established in Genesis and runs all the way to Revelation. (He’s allowed to make us as miserable as he wants, seeing as misery is defined by our fallen body systems that oppose Him.)

When our Lord returns for us, I imagine that a new set of commands will be given for us to follow.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 said:
3 Share in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving in the army gets entangled in everyday affairs; the soldier’s aim is to please the enlisting officer.

Missing the relationship component behind the Scriptures is to come away with an impoverished theology. I remember when I first read the Bible straight through from Genesis to Revelation in college. I had read select books and memorized verses, but reading it as a whole left me with a picture of relationship that was a real gut punch. I realized depths of love that I was missing out on, and my traumatized brain couldn’t handle it and collapsed

. But it’s still real.

What is the point of of keeping the Sabbath anyway, if not a deeper relationship with God?

SabbathBlessings said:
The Scripture explains these different laws, most with a thus saith the Lord, but people choose not to believe, mainly because there is one law they don't want to keep under any circumstances that deals with our time. Its the one that has been attacked for a long time in different angles because it reveals the God we are to worship, our Creator Rev14:7 Exo20:11 the only God who can sanctify us or a day. Gen2:3 Exo20:11 Eze20:12. There is a real spiritual war where the devil is trying to be like god and has hijacked this world.

If you think there’s a conspiracy, I’m not a part of it. I think there is some utility to keeping the Sabbath in this present age.

The danger of following the theology of the post quoted above is that it can lead one to idolize one’s Sabbath over one’s God, and I will have no part of that. Our relationship to God is more important than any Sabbath or lack of Sabbath worship/rest.

Studyman said:
I'm curious, as a person who avoids this world's Gamaliel's and religious schools, choosing instead to study the Oracles of God HE delivered into my own home, where does the tradition come from of creating religious schools to promote one religious philosophy over another? I mean, the JW have their Seminaries, SDA has theirs, Mormon's have theirs, Islam has theirs. Where is this tradition promoted by the Lord's Christ of His Father in the Holy Scriptures?

The common verse cited is this one:

Romans 10:14-17 said:
14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.

The point of the theological training schools is to proclaim the Gospel in accordance with the Great Commission. The schools train and send missionaries and pastors to churches, both unique jobs with unique challenges. For example, missionaries to Papa New Guinea have to acquire the ability to make an oral language into a written one, educate the tribal people in literacy, and translate the Bible into it, among other things. Pastors need to be trained in exegesis, Hebrew and Greek, and public speaking, admin, etc. It’s a matter of practicality rather than competition.

Because in Bible Church land, nobody (really) cares. You’re a Jew and you chose to accept the Gospel because you agree with the Sons of Zadok? That’s better than ending up in Gehenna, props. We don’t care if you leave us to join the SDAs. What bothers us is if one chooses to reject the Gospel, that’s a problem. Hiding the Gospel and Scripture in cloaks of tradition and ritual is what gets us ready to engage in Scripture-slinging spiritual warfare, but other than that we’re pretty chill. Occasionally we might have to disown somebody like John MacArthur who spends time attacking people for no reason and makes egregious theological errors though. Starting fights with other churches makes us look bad.

So as far as I know, we don’t use our schools to fight with other schools and we certainly are not interested in being like the Pharisees in our teaching styles. Well, except for the Master’s college, but that school is run by John MacArthur’s ego, so let’s just throw them out as irrelevant. I most certainly disown their elitism.

What I was referring to was the Dallas Theological Seminary, which is very inclusive in their doctrinal statement. I think a Christian of almost any Protestant stripe could attend there unbothered, including the SDAs and Messianics. In fact, I have reason to suspect that some actually have.

But when you build a school, there are those who teach at the school, and of the teachers, there will be researchers and scholars who decide what is to be taught. That’s just how schools work. There are people whose job is to know the worldwide mission field like a 3-D chess game and to train people for new mission opportunities, whether pastor or missionary.

And then, inevitably, these scholars will reach necessary consensus on certain issues, which are then taught to the pastors who teach it to their congregations. That is a way of keeping order and making sure that the pastors and missionaries are following the Scriptures. Most of these consensuses are practical, like refusing same-sex marriages to be conducted on church property or saying we don’t allow abuse as a valid reason for a biblical divorce, etc.

In this case, imagine yourself as a union less factory worker in 1863 when the SDA church was founded up in Michigan. Having a day of rest to the Lord would have been a relief to them from the constant toil and long hours in the workplace. That’s part of why that church has held on against the mainline work ‘em til they die American culture, by venerating the 4th commandment as a pushback. It provides relief. Likewise, the Zadok consensus appeals to the Messianic Jews and their theological needs. It’s a practical consensus for them to keep the Law to honor their heritage and keep the peace with their fellow law keeping Jews. The bottom line is:

Romans 12:18 said:
If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Likewise, the mainline consensus is practical for people in occupations that don’t allow them to consistently rest on Saturday, like emergency service workers or postal carriers. You’re not apostate for delivering the mail on Saturday, says that consensus: your Sabbath rest is in Christ. Not only that, but our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and He is working on Saturday too. No priest was breaking the Sabbath by working in the temple, and the temple was not breaking the Sabbath by being used, and neither are we.

It’s a strange reality to think about the fact that a temple can deliver your mail or heal your wound or tend a garden or do all the other things that humans do, but it is true. We aren’t God, but we are serving Him now with everything we do, and that should take some pressure off.

Romans 14:5 said:
Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds.

Fervent · 2025-11-15T23:54:00-0600

I think we'd have to define what it means to keep the Sabbath in order for anyone to answer this question, especially in identifying how certain restrictions that are set out in the Bible apply to modern life. Is using electricity causing a fire to be lit? How about driving a car that uses internal combustion in its engine? Is carrying a Bible against the restriction on carrying? And what of the other 30 some categories of work that were forbidden by the Jews on the Sabbath? What do we mean when we say "keep the Sabbath"?

Servus · 2025-11-16T01:55:33-0600

Fervent said:
I think we'd have to define what it means to keep the Sabbath in order for anyone to answer this question, especially in identifying how certain restrictions that are set out in the Bible apply to modern life. Is using electricity causing a fire to be lit? How about driving a car that uses internal combustion in its engine? Is carrying a Bible against the restriction on carrying? And what of the other 30 some categories of work that were forbidden by the Jews on the Sabbath? What do we mean when we say "keep the Sabbath"?

Christians keeping the Sabbath seems to be predominantly defined by the Seventh-day Adventist church and similar. That seems to be the model most Christian Sabbatarians go by.

And then most of the rest of it is defined by the Messianic Jewish movement, which is to completely follow the Torah. Whatever a devout Jew does and doesn't do during the Sabbath these days.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-16T05:10:41-0600

linux.poet said:
That is not correct. The definition of sin is simple: to do what God tells us not to do or to not do what God says to do. This is evident from the Garden of Eden in Genesis 1-3. Adam and Eve ate the apple God told them not to eat and thus were banished from the Garden. None of the Scriptures cited above disprove what I just said.
Sin is not defined by the Law. It is defined by God as whatever displeases Him that He wants to write a command against. The Law was given to a specific people (the nation of Israel) during a specific period of time. Our Lord Jesus updated those commands in His Sermon on the Mount. He’s allowed to do that because He is God. God is inherently allowed to give humans commands. That authority is established in Genesis and runs all the way to Revelation. (He’s allowed to make us as miserable as he wants, seeing as misery is defined by our fallen body systems that oppose Him.)

Hi Linux,
I appreciate your response back. I am a big believer when the Bible tells us something, we should believe it. This is what the bible says sin is. We can choose to believe it or, but it doesn't change God's Word.

This is New Covenant teaching ....because sin is still and always will be the same. What changed in the NC is how we handle sins, not what sin itself is which is clearly shown.

1 John3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2:11 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law

Sin is breaking any of the Ten Commandments.

Why Paul said:
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

The Bible could not be more clear on this. Why Jesus said quoting from this same unit if we break the least of these commandments one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30

Sin is also defined as anything not of faith Rom14:23 and faith does not void the law it establishes it. Rom3:31

We also have verses like where there is no law, there is no sin Rom4:15 so sin is very much breaking the law of God. Without God's law there would be no need for grace or mercy. We would not be separated from God. As long as there is sin in the world, there is the law of God, defined by God, not man.

linux.poet said:
The purpose of the Law - Decalogue and all the rest of it - was to show that we, as fallen human beings, cannot follow God’s commands no matter what commands are given. God is Holy, and we are not, so any instructions He gives we will fall short of.

This doesn't make sense, God gave us the Law that we will be judged by because we can't keep it. That means God who judges us by His Law James2:11-12 Ecc12:13-14 Mat5:19-30 Rev11:18-19 Rev22:14-15 is part of the conspiracy against man. That's not at all what Scriptures teach.

While God is holy and we are not, if we come to Him in our sinful state (justification) and ask for His help in overcoming our sin (sanctification) He will do so. But we have to want to obey God because we love Him. If we make the effort to obey Him, He will work in us so we can do so. Its the devil who wants us to believe we are a slave to sin, that we can't overcome so why bother, not God. Sadly many believe their devil is bigger to keep us in sin than God is to keep us from sin. Have faith we can gain victory and keep God's commandments by our love and His power, its a promise of the Bible.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

God tells us He has a people who overcomes - but it requires us to let God define things and believe we can overcome through Him

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

linux.poet said:
Believe it or not, people longed for relationship to God, to know and be known by Him. If you doubt me on this, take a good read of the Psalms. (People longed for what we have today, and what we have is so much better than they could ever imagine: God as our Father, Christ as Our Bride, and the Holy Spirit inside of us FOREVER.) So, out of love, God gave us a set of commands and he said “Follow this.” The idea was simple: through the Law, we became aware of our sin problem. God was saying “This is your relationship to me. You are not following my commands. You are no better than your father Adam.” The Law was meant to show us that.

This is the test of knowing Him according to the Scriptures.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

I do not understand why those who long for a relationship with God would want to worship others gods, or bow to idols, or vain His holy name or not want sacred time set aside with God on the day He designated to spend holy time with Him on the only day He sanctified and blessed to do so. This argument that keeping God's commandments leads us away from Christ is the opposite of what God says Psa19:7 John15:10 1John3:24

linux.poet said:
It is. There is nothing to preclude God from updating His commands to us at any time in response to our success or failure in dealing with Him. All of His commands are perfect and holy, but not all are sufficient to deal with our fallen condition.

Yes, but I would want a Text before saying only worshipping the God of Creation went from being a blessing to a curse. We we are told to worship this God only Rev14:7 Exo20:11 Exo20:3

Instead God says this right before His Second Coming

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Sin, breaking God's law separated us, doing what separated man before is not how we are going to be reconciled. Isa59:2

The law that defines what sin is (Ten Commandments) cannot be the same law that was given as a cure for sins until the Seed came (animal sacrifices) Lev7:37. Why God made so many distinctions from these laws. Only one set is written by God and is under His mercy seat.

linux.poet said:
When our Lord returns for us, I imagine that a new set of commands will be given for us to follow.

Those who make it through the gates of heaven are not going to be sinning, they will have already overcome through Jesus (Rev14:12 John14:15-10 John15:10 Rev22:14). In heaven there is not going to be any sin. The law of the Lord is perfect for converting the soul, His testimonies are sure Psa19:7 His Testimony is what is already in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19, the Ten Commandments written by the Holy Spirit, not man- if everyone was keeping these commandments now, the way Jesus taught Mat5:19-30 there would be no more sin. I do not believe He is going to have more laws, He is going to restore things back before sin hijacked this world.

linux.poet said:
Missing the relationship component behind the Scriptures is to come away with an impoverished theology. I

What is the point of of keeping the Sabbath anyway, if not a deeper relationship with God?

Amen! We can know doctrine Truth and still not know Jesus. But Truth helps and staying in darkness (untruth) is not the way either. The Sabbath is absolutely about a deeper relationship with God. Why God wants us to cease from our works and labors on the seventh day Sabbath (no worldly distractions) so we can keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8-11 and have spiritual rest with Him Heb4,4,9,10- keeping our focus on Him Isa:58:13 which we do through prayer, reading His word, coming together as a congregation for worship, through nature and spending quality time with Jesus so He can bless Isa59:2 and sanctify us Eze20:12

linux.poet said:
If you think there’s a conspiracy, I’m not a part of it. I think there is some utility to keeping the Sabbath in this present age.

God claimed His times and laws was changed not by Him Dan7:25, the only law (4th commandment) that is a time (every seventh day Exo20:10) was changed clearly in history, not by God. The institution who changed it claims they did so on their authority over the bible and anyone who keeps Sunday over the Sabbath is bowing to their authority just as His Word predicted.

We are all involved in this conspiracy regardless if we want to or not by our choices. Our worship comes down to who we serve and obey. Do we stay faithful to God Rev14:12 or do we follow the crowd what popular man says Rev14:11 Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14 Jesus tells us which path to take, but sadly not everyone comes to Him, because they like their sins more than their love for Jesus John3:19-21

Paul warns about this too

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone [a]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God Exo20:8-11, written personally by God Exo31:18 comes with His power of Blessings Isa59:2 and Sanctification Eze20:12. Man needs God Eze20:20

linux.poet said:
The danger of following the theology of the post quoted above is that it can lead one to idolize one’s Sabbath over one’s God,
and I will have no part of that. Our relationship to God is more important than any Sabbath or lack of Sabbath worship/rest.

This is a popular theory against doing what God asked, but its not in reality. The Sabbath is about God, doing what God asks through faith and love. So by this theory, you are saying God would rather us profane His Sabbath than spend time with Him on the day He sanctified and blessed to do so despite so many thus saith the Lords in the Holy Word of God saying the opposite. Rebellion to God is not love or faith, it is just that, something God is trying to get our attention on if we hear Him Heb3:7-19

I pray you will reconsider some of these things and our Bible really is our guide and safeguard Psa119:105 Pro30:5 going away from it is the danger Isa8:20

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-16T05:48:51-0600

linux.poet said:
In this case, imagine yourself as a union less factory worker in 1863 when the SDA church was founded up in Michigan. Having a day of rest to the Lord would have been a relief to them from the constant toil and long hours in the workplace. That’s part of why that church has held on against the mainline work ‘em til they die American culture, by venerating the 4th commandment as a pushback. It provides relief. Likewise, the Zadok consensus appeals to the Messianic Jews and their theological needs. It’s a practical consensus for them to keep the Law to honor their heritage and keep the peace with their fellow law keeping Jews. The bottom line is:

The SDA church may have been founded in 1863, but the Sabbath started by God from Creation Exo20:11 and is a commandment of God Exo20:8-11, not a commandment of the SDA church. We choose to uphold all Ten Commandments, the way God asked.

Romans 14:5 said:
Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”

Lets look at this closer, especially when using Paul's writings ( when essentially using them against what God said) because it came with such a significant warning 2Peter3:16

The Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments, written by God’s finger, not human opinion

Remember the sabbath day… the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

Romans 14 deals with matters of personal choice, not matters of divine law.

The Ten Commandments are never:

optional
disputable
up to personal persuasion

Romans 14 is about tolerant “disputable matters” Rom 14:1

Cannot be about God's 4th commandment as if man can decide which commandment to keep or not keep, essentially making one their own god Rom6:16. Why the Sabbath is not mentioned in this entire chapter, we are told plainly not to add what's not there.

I know these are all popular arguments against keeping one of God's commandments, our loyalty needs to be to God. God divinely gave His commandments, and blessed the Sabbath day Exo20:11 man cannot reverse God's blessing Num23:20 because man is not God. God nor Jesus who is God never once said we don't have to keep His commandments- He taught the opposite Mat5:18-30 Mat7:7-13 Mat15:3-14. Jesus as our example faithfully kept the Sabbath Luke4:16 Exo20:8-11 Lev23:3 why would we not want to follow in His steps when He literally told us He is the way John14:6

HIM · 2025-11-16T06:58:11-0600

BobRyan said:
That is the very special case of a tiny group of gentiles wishing to participate in the Passover, and yes for them circumcision would be necessary.

That is a far cry from "all mankind" or "all gentiles in the OT"

again, that is a tiny group . It is the group of gentiles that wanted to

It would be Any who would have join themselves to God and His people. One Law for all, and circumcision is of the Law

.Num 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

Num 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

HIM · 2025-11-16T07:06:21-0600

eleos1954 said:
The Sabbath is a symbol ... and redemption in Christ.

Says nowhere in Scripture, let's not add what is not.

HIM · 2025-11-16T08:39:30-0600

HIM said:
Says nowhere in scripture and you know it. Otherwise you would have posted it and not try to state Rom 3 says it.

pasifika said:
Romans 3:27 for the two laws (Faith & works) and Chapter 4 is regarding Abraham in respect to the two laws (works & Faith)

Rom 3:27 says law of faith, meaning out of faith. Chapter one starts this premise in it's repeating from the Old Testament that the just live out of faith in Rom1:16. This is how the law is not made void but established as Rom 3:23 shares. There is not a new Law replacing the Law that gives us the knowledge of sin. The Law never made anyone righteous, for all have sinned and the wages of one sin is death. But the just, the righteous live out of faith. for by the law is the knowledge of sin. As it is written, the Law is for the sinner if used lawfully, not for the righteous as 1 Tim 1:8-10 shares and Rom 7 confirm. For Paul had said,, I had not known sin, but by the law:. And this he says in context to chapter 6 where he stated, shall we continue in sin that grace abound? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer therein?, This sin that is defined by the Law as verses 3:23 and 7:7 state.

Hentenza · 2025-11-16T08:52:20-0600

Studyman said:
Since we are "cutting to the chase", lets look at how God Himself, defines His Own Promised New Covenant.

Jer. 31: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So there you have it. 2 things were promised to change.

#1. The manner in which God's Laws are administered. In the Law and Prophets, how did men receive God's Laws? Was it not by those who "Sit in Moses Seat"? Could I go to my home and study the "Book of the Law" in Old Testament times? NO!, I couldn't. I had to go find a Levite Priest who had exclusive possession of the Book, and listen to him read the Book to me. This is undeniable Biblical Truth.

But what about now? Do I have to go find a Temple somewhere that a priest exists who can open the "Book of the Law" and read it to me? NO!, We are in the New Priesthood Covenant, and God has delivered His Oracles into my own home, into my own mind and I don't need for another to teach me, because EVERYONE can know the Lord from the least to the greatest.

Let’s start here. It is important to take into account historical context. You missed the part of verse 31 that states who this new covenant is with, the house of Israel. This is not the new covenant with the gentile church. This verse is quoted in Heb. 8 with the same effect. The new covenant with the gentile church is the new covenant of the blood of Christ listed in Luke 22:20.

Studyman said:
#2. The manner in which sins are forgiven. In the Law and Prophets, when a man sinned, he was required to go find a temple with a Levite Priest, take a yearling goat to the Priest, and Kill it. The Priest would then take it's Blood and perform "works" according to the Priesthood Law that Abraham didn't have, and through this process, as it is written;

Lev. 4:30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

But in the New Priesthood Covenant, Prophesied Priest of God, after the Order of Melchizedek, offers to God His own Blood for the remission of sins, as prophesied.

So God replaces the Priesthood Covenant HE made when Moses went up to God the 2nd time, with a New Priesthood Covenant, with a Priest that is not a Levite.

There is nothing in God's Promises that prophesies of His definition of Sin, righteousness or Holiness is changed. Only the Priesthood.

At least this is what the Scriptures actually say.

There is a bit to unpack here. Hebrews 7:11-28 gives us the answers.

“So if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

[Melchizedek was a king and a priest, a combination forbidden under the Levitical system. This is seen as foreshadowing Jesus, who is also a king-priest. He blessed Abraham around 430 years before the law including the 10 commandments was given through Moses. With that said read the fact that when the Levetical priesthood, part of the Mosaic law, changed (no longer there), the law changed also. It changed because our King-Priest fulfilled (completed) the law. ]

For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become a priest not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.

[This is the nail on the coffin for the law. Notice that the new priest is NOT on the basis of the law but on the power of Jesus resurrection.]

For it is attested of Him, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.” For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope, through which we come near to God.

[This continues nailing the nail on the coffin for the law but now the author of Hebrews is taking about commandments being nullified because of their weakness and uselessness (See Romans 8) because the law never made anything perfect. The better hope is the giving of Spirit which is how we get near God]

And to the extent that it was not without an oath (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, “The Lord has sworn And will not change His mind, ‘You are a priest forever’ ”); by the same extent Jesus also has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

[Jesus is the guarantee of the new covenant. The guarantor in a contract is the one that takes ultimate responsibility for the debt. The debt in this case is the propitiation of our sins. This is what being justified by the grace of God through faith not by the works of the law. The moment that you add a requirement besides the grace of God then grace is no longer grace if it is through works so it becomes an obligation. (Rom. 4). If it is necessary to keep Saturday as the day of worship so thst we do not sin, as some here believe, then it became a requirement for salvation and, therefore, a salvation by works).

The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing; Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.

[This verse is a perfect example of the OT being Christological in nature. It showed us that a messiah would come and that a new covenant would be given. Jesus priesthood has always been and will forever be.]

Therefore He is also able to save forever those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

[The law changed because the priesthood changed. The priesthood changed so that we could be justified by the grace of God through faith. And now here we see the practical application of Jesus sacrifice. God demands perfection but we are not perfect, after all Jesus came “while” are still sinners (Rom. 5:4). He intercedes for us to show us perfect in the eyes of God (Col. 1:22). ]

For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; who has no daily need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because He did this once for all time when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, who has been made perfect forever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7‬:‭11‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
Hebrews 7:11-28 So if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizede | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now [Annotations mine]

Studyman said:
You forget the most relevant truth. God's definition of Sin was never prophesied to change, just the manner in which Sins were forgiven.

And yet it did. The law in the OC defined sin but the law was fulfilled by Christ crucifixion and resurrection, nailed to the cross (Col. 2:14). So if the law was nailed to the cross then it can no longer define sin so the what defines sin? The helper, the Holy Spirit, is the one that will convict the world regarding sin (John 16:8). So follow the Spirit not the law.

I did not finish replying to the rest of your post because you changed my post by adding words that I did not write to my quote that you quoted. This is called “fixed it for you” and it is considered goading and against the flaming rules of CF. I am not going to report you this time but don’t change peoples posts ever again.

Fervent · 2025-11-16T09:06:43-0600

Servus said:
Christians keeping the Sabbath seems to be predominantly defined by the Seventh-day Adventist church and similar. That seems to be the model most Christian Sabbatarians go by.

And then most of the rest of it is defined by the Messianic Jewish movement, which is to completely follow the Torah. Whatever a devout Jew does and doesn't do during the Sabbath these days.

Yes, but my concern is what the Biblical understanding of Sabbath keeping is rather than how those who currently claim to keep it understand it. How do modern Sabbath keepers line up with Biblical prohibitions? And is it just the weekly Sabbath, or are they keeping Sabbatical years and Jubilee years as well? Why the one, and not the other?

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-16T09:17:21-0600

Fervent said:
Yes, but my concern is what the Biblical understanding of Sabbath keeping is rather than how those who currently claim to keep it understand it. How do modern Sabbath keepers line up with Biblical prohibitions? And is it just the weekly Sabbath, or are they keeping Sabbatical years and Jubilee years as well? Why the one, and not the other?

You're free to give a biblical argument against how God said we should keep it

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

I am simply wondering what the answer to the poll question is. No hard feelings to Sabbath worshippers intended, I am simply curious. If you do keep the Sabbath, how do you observe it? How you do believe Christians should observe it?

www.christianforums.com

There will always be the camp who claims they do not need to keep the Sabbath but will criticize people who do that they can't keep it or keeping it wrong. There will always be the accuser of the brethren, sadly this spirit came in after the fall of man. The Pharisees were doing this exact thing, telling God the Creator of everything He was not keeping the Sabbath correctly when they themselves weren't keeping it, but holding on to their man-made traditions instead.

Thankfully, God will be the judge on this and everything else and nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14

Hentenza · 2025-11-16T09:20:06-0600

HIM said:
Why do you post antagonistically?

Not my intention and if my response came out thst way then please accept my apologies. Do remember that one disadvantage of having conversations view posts is that it is very difficult to discern tone. Us longtime posters call a wall of words long posts that have either no paragraphs or hard to tell where the paragraph breaks are.

HIM said:
Do we sin? If so, the Law is for us to use lawfully...

1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Tim 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The law is not what convicts us but the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent to guide us. Please read my post 129 where I do an exposition of this very topic for another poster.

HIM said:
The fact there is a circadian rhythm is a powerful enough testimony in and of itself in respect to the Sabbath at Creation.

I disagree with you. The circadian rhythm does not require Saturday as the day of rest. I am one of those lucky ones that worked almost exclusively Monday to Friday and had the weekends off. I always chose to do my chores and errands on Saturday and rest on Sunday. My circadian rhythm was never affected.

Fervent · 2025-11-16T09:20:33-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
You're free to give a biblical argument against how God said we should keep it

if you want to put yourself under the yoke of the law, that's your business. But you can't just yoke yourself with a portion of it.

SabbathBlessings said:
Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

I am simply wondering what the answer to the poll question is. No hard feelings to Sabbath worshippers intended, I am simply curious. If you do keep the Sabbath, how do you observe it? How you do believe Christians should observe it?

www.christianforums.com

There will always be the camp who claims they do not need to keep the Sabbath who will criticize people who do. The Pharisees were doing this exact thing, telling God the Creator of everything He was not keeping the Sabbath correctly when they themselves weren't keeping it.

You seem to not understand Jesus' reply to the Pharisees, because it was in direct opposition to the spirit of Sabbatarians who insist the Sabbath must be "kept". The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

HIM · 2025-11-16T09:25:12-0600

Studyman said:
Let me know where you think I'm off the rails, if indeed you do. Thanks for the discussion.

You are trying to explain Galatians without even quoting Galatians. You quoted one verse and then ignored the surrounding text that show the context.

Studyman said:
Paul is explaining to the Gentiles that the Blood of goats and the Priesthood "Works of the Law" is not why they received the Spirit of understanding. It was their obedience to God, as Peter also teaches, which is called "Faith". When the same Gospel was given to the Israelites, most of them didn't believe God, and subsequently didn't "obey Him". Here is what God said about them.

Paul mentions Circumcision, not living as the Gentiles live but as do the Jews, and being separate from those who are not Jews in chapter 2 of Galatians. All of these things are laws within the Book of the Law that is mentioned in verse 3:10. Ergo the law mentioned that does not justify is the Book of the Law. As it is written, the just live by faith vs 11, the faith that establishes the law. The faith Abraham had. For the word, the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is in our heart and in our mouth that we do it. That is the word of faith that we preach and must hear. The Law, the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law are in our hearts and minds. He has given us His Spirit to cause us to walk in in His way. For the written Law on Stone and parchment made no one righteous, not one. But the Lord has said, I will circumcise thy heart and the heart of thy seed. The circumcision made without hands, cutting away the sins of the flesh, that we can serve the living God. Not by the letter, the knowledge of sin. But by the Spirit. For the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life..
And that which was on the outside, the Law on stone and parchment is within. We are new creature begotten by the Word of truth. So Let us not forget what manner man we are now, or are to be, and be a doer of the Word that we are begotten of and not a hearer only deceiving ourselves.

My friend and friends there are some truths shared in the post that you might not of took noticed to. I will repost it again and highlight one in particular which should have raised questions from you. Have a great day. I am off to a business meeting. May the Lord continue to bless all in His Way, Jesus the Christ.

The obeying the voice of God is of the hearing of faith that Paul speaks of in Galatians 3. We know this to be true because verse 6 starts with the words “even as” when the spirit speaks of Abraham believing God. And all this is being said in respect to Paul speaking of us being dead but alive, yet not us but the Christ living in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. And this Faith is how we are justified. Because we Know that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by (through) the faith of Jesus Christ, as verse 2:16 says

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-16T09:26:37-0600

Fervent said:
if you want to put yourself under the yoke of the law, that's your business. But you can't just yoke yourself with a portion of it.

If you believe resting with God on His holy and sacred day is a yoke and not the blessing and delight He said it is Isa56:2 Exo20:11 Isa58:13-14 that can be your choice. God will not force us.

Fervent said:
You seem to not understand Jesus' reply to the Pharisees, because it was in direct opposition to the spirit of Sabbatarians who insist the Sabbath must be "kept". The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Yes, the Sabbath is made for man. Man was made first on the 6th day Gen1:26 in the image of God in His likeness to follow Him. God rested on the seventh day right after He made man, Gen2:1-3 Exo20:11hence why the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

God tells us why the Sabbath was made for man, in His holy word, spoken directly by God. The blessing Isa56:2 and sanctification Eze20:12 is there if we choose to accept. Sadly, many do not Isa66:167

HIM · 2025-11-16T09:30:37-0600

Hentenza said:
Not my intention and if my response came out thst way then please accept my apologies.

Thank you and if I may. I know I don't always come across appropriately and not of God. So I am sorry also.
But then again in "our" defense sometimes. Yours, mine, and everyone else's. Sometimes God leads us to share things that are antagonistic to wake others up. The Forum has rules against this. But the Spirit leads as the Spirit leads. Let God be the Judge and may we be acceptable to what ever the world dishes out.
Talk to you later. I have to go.

Fervent · 2025-11-16T09:32:56-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
If you believe resting with God on His holy and sacred day is a yoke and not the blessing and delight He said it is Isa56:2 Exo20:11 Isa58:13-14 that can be your choice. God will not force us.

The issue is not Sabbath keeping, but that in restoring the law you declare Christ's death to have been in vain.

SabbathBlessings said:
Yes, the Sabbath is made for man. Man was made first on the 6th day Gen1:26 in the image of God in His likeness to follow Him. God rested on the seventh day right after He made man, Gen2:1-3 Exo20:11hence why the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

God tells us why the Sabbath was made for man, in His holy word, spoken directly by God. The blessing Isa56:2 and sanctification Eze20:12 is there if we choose to accept. Sadly, many do not Isa66:167

And being made for man, if man sees no need to keep it then there is no law being violated. It is not the Sabbath that is problematic in "Sabbath keepers" but their putting themselves under the law despite claiming to have died to it.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-16T09:39:55-0600

Fervent said:
The issue is not Sabbath keeping, but that in restoring the law you declare Christ's death to have been in vain.

You will need to take that up with Jesus. He never said the Sabbath blessing ended at the Cross but His faithful would be keeping decades later and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20 and for eternity Isa66:22-23. Why the apostles kept the Sabbath decades after the Cross with all nations just as Jesus said Isa56:6-7 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc

Fervent said:
And being made for man, if man sees no need to keep it then there is no law being violated. It is not the Sabbath that is problematic in "Sabbath keepers" but their putting themselves under the law despite claiming to have died to it.

Man is not God, I do not think accepting Gods gift of blessings and sanctification will work out for man because we can't sanctify ourselves Isa66:17.

And the Sabbath is very much a commandment of God, God placed it in the same unit as only worshipping Him and not stealing from our neighbor. I think you will need to take your grievances of the Sabbath up with Him, He just wants to spend time with us on the day He asked that He blessed and sanctified. I am not in a place to judge His commandments or find fault with them, I think if we let God be God, He will only ask us for what is in our best interest, why He said the Sabbath was made for man, not against man.

Fervent · 2025-11-16T09:44:40-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
You will need to take that up with Jesus. He never said the Sabbath blessing ended at the Cross but His faithful would be keeping decades later and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20 and for eternity Isa66:22-23. Why the apostles kept the Sabbath decades after the Cross with all nations just as Jesus said Isa56:6-7 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc

As I said, if you want to put yourself under the yoke of the law that's your business. But in doing so you are not honoring Christ, because you are declaring His death without effect.

SabbathBlessings said:
Man is not God, I do not think accepting Gods gift of blessings and sanctification will work out for man because we can't sanctify ourselves Isa66:17.

And the Sabbath is very much a commandment of God, God placed it in the same unit as only worshipping Him and not stealing from our neighbor. I think you will need to take your grievances of the Sabbath up with Him, He just wants to spend time with us on the day He asked that He blessed and sanctified. I am not in a place to judge His commandments or find fault with them, I think if we let God be God, He will only ask us for what is in our best interest, why He said the Sabbath was made for man, not against man.

Did you, or did you not die to the law? How then can you live under it any longer?

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-16T09:51:33-0600

Fervent said:
As I said, if you want to put yourself under the yoke of the law that's your business. But in doing so you are not honoring Christ, because you are declaring His death without effect.

These are you words, not Christ's. He wants to give us rest and spend time honoring Him. If that's a yoke to you, that's up to you. Its not what God said His Sabbath was for, nor will you find one Scripture that say the Sabbath is a yoke of bondage. God wants to set us free from the yoke which is sin, why His commandments are the law of liberty James2:11-12 God's commandments which is holy, just and good Rom7:12 and perfect for converting the soul Psa19:7 written by our Perfect Savior. Psa19:7 could never be a yoke. This teaching is not how we know and love Christ 1John5:3-4 1John2:3-4

Fervent said:
Did you, or did you not die to the law? How then can you live under it any longer?

We are to die of sin and self, not now we can worship other gods and ignore all the teachings of Jesus and His example to follow or what He asks of those who love Him. John14:15

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (breaking God's Laws 1John3:4) that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Do you actually keep the Sabbath as outlined in the 4th commandment?

Yes, I keep the Sabbath on Saturday every week as mentioned in the Decalogue, the Law, etc.

I believe that Sunday worship has replaced the Sabbath, and take my Sabbath rest on Sunday

No, I believe that my Sabbath rest is found in Christ, and so I can work any day I want to

Other response

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