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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Do you actually keep the Sabbath as outlined in the 4th commandment?

  • I believe that Sunday worship has replaced the Sabbath, and take my Sabbath rest on Sunday

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16

linux.poet

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do not believe that is what under the law means, that we can sin now and break God’s laws, which is the definition of sin 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 Mat5:19-30
That is not correct. The definition of sin is simple: to do what God tells us not to do or to not do what God says to do. This is evident from the Garden of Eden in Genesis 1-3. Adam and Eve ate the apple God told them not to eat and thus were banished from the Garden. None of the Scriptures cited above disprove what I just said.

The purpose of the Law - Decalogue and all the rest of it - was to show that we, as fallen human beings, cannot follow God’s commands no matter what commands are given. God is Holy, and we are not, so any instructions He gives we will fall short of.

Romans 3:20 said:
For no human will be justified before him by deeds prescribed by the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 8:6-8 said:
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Believe it or not, people longed for relationship to God, to know and be known by Him. If you doubt me on this, take a good read of the Psalms. (People longed for what we have today, and what we have is so much better than they could ever imagine: God as our Father, Christ as Our Bride, and the Holy Spirit inside of us FOREVER.) So, out of love, God gave us a set of commands and he said “Follow this.” The idea was simple: through the Law, we became aware of our sin problem. God was saying “This is your relationship to me. You are not following my commands. You are no better than your father Adam.” The Law was meant to show us that.
laws. The law that is perfect Psa19:7 cannot be the same law that is contrary and against Col2:14KJV.
It is. There is nothing to preclude God from updating His commands to us at any time in response to our success or failure in dealing with Him. All of His commands are perfect and holy, but not all are sufficient to deal with our fallen condition.
The law that defines sin (1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7 Mat5:19-30) cannot be the same law that was added because of sin (animal sacrifices).
Sin is not defined by the Law. It is defined by God as whatever displeases Him that He wants to write a command against. The Law was given to a specific people (the nation of Israel) during a specific period of time. Our Lord Jesus updated those commands in His Sermon on the Mount. He’s allowed to do that because He is God. God is inherently allowed to give humans commands. That authority is established in Genesis and runs all the way to Revelation. (He’s allowed to make us as miserable as he wants, seeing as misery is defined by our fallen body systems that oppose Him.)

When our Lord returns for us, I imagine that a new set of commands will be given for us to follow.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 said:
3 Share in suffering like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving in the army gets entangled in everyday affairs; the soldier’s aim is to please the enlisting officer.

Missing the relationship component behind the Scriptures is to come away with an impoverished theology. I remember when I first read the Bible straight through from Genesis to Revelation in college. I had read select books and memorized verses, but reading it as a whole left me with a picture of relationship that was a real gut punch. I realized depths of love that I was missing out on, and my traumatized brain couldn’t handle it and collapsed :p. But it’s still real.

What is the point of of keeping the Sabbath anyway, if not a deeper relationship with God?
The Scripture explains these different laws, most with a thus saith the Lord, but people choose not to believe, mainly because there is one law they don't want to keep under any circumstances that deals with our time. Its the one that has been attacked for a long time in different angles because it reveals the God we are to worship, our Creator Rev14:7 Exo20:11 the only God who can sanctify us or a day. Gen2:3 Exo20:11 Eze20:12. There is a real spiritual war where the devil is trying to be like god and has hijacked this world.
If you think there’s a conspiracy, I’m not a part of it. I think there is some utility to keeping the Sabbath in this present age.

The danger of following the theology of the post quoted above is that it can lead one to idolize one’s Sabbath over one’s God, and I will have no part of that. Our relationship to God is more important than any Sabbath or lack of Sabbath worship/rest.

I'm curious, as a person who avoids this world's Gamaliel's and religious schools, choosing instead to study the Oracles of God HE delivered into my own home, where does the tradition come from of creating religious schools to promote one religious philosophy over another? I mean, the JW have their Seminaries, SDA has theirs, Mormon's have theirs, Islam has theirs. Where is this tradition promoted by the Lord's Christ of His Father in the Holy Scriptures?
The common verse cited is this one:

Romans 10:14-17 said:
14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.

The point of the theological training schools is to proclaim the Gospel in accordance with the Great Commission. The schools train and send missionaries and pastors to churches, both unique jobs with unique challenges. For example, missionaries to Papa New Guinea have to acquire the ability to make an oral language into a written one, educate the tribal people in literacy, and translate the Bible into it, among other things. Pastors need to be trained in exegesis, Hebrew and Greek, and public speaking, admin, etc. It’s a matter of practicality rather than competition.

Because in Bible Church land, nobody (really) cares. You’re a Jew and you chose to accept the Gospel because you agree with the Sons of Zadok? That’s better than ending up in Gehenna, props. We don’t care if you leave us to join the SDAs. What bothers us is if one chooses to reject the Gospel, that’s a problem. Hiding the Gospel and Scripture in cloaks of tradition and ritual is what gets us ready to engage in Scripture-slinging spiritual warfare, but other than that we’re pretty chill. Occasionally we might have to disown somebody like John MacArthur who spends time attacking people for no reason and makes egregious theological errors though. Starting fights with other churches makes us look bad.

So as far as I know, we don’t use our schools to fight with other schools and we certainly are not interested in being like the Pharisees in our teaching styles. Well, except for the Master’s college, but that school is run by John MacArthur’s ego, so let’s just throw them out as irrelevant. I most certainly disown their elitism.

What I was referring to was the Dallas Theological Seminary, which is very inclusive in their doctrinal statement. I think a Christian of almost any Protestant stripe could attend there unbothered, including the SDAs and Messianics. In fact, I have reason to suspect that some actually have.

But when you build a school, there are those who teach at the school, and of the teachers, there will be researchers and scholars who decide what is to be taught. That’s just how schools work. There are people whose job is to know the worldwide mission field like a 3-D chess game and to train people for new mission opportunities, whether pastor or missionary.

And then, inevitably, these scholars will reach necessary consensus on certain issues, which are then taught to the pastors who teach it to their congregations. That is a way of keeping order and making sure that the pastors and missionaries are following the Scriptures. Most of these consensuses are practical, like refusing same-sex marriages to be conducted on church property or saying we don’t allow abuse as a valid reason for a biblical divorce, etc.

In this case, imagine yourself as a union less factory worker in 1863 when the SDA church was founded up in Michigan. Having a day of rest to the Lord would have been a relief to them from the constant toil and long hours in the workplace. That’s part of why that church has held on against the mainline work ‘em til they die American culture, by venerating the 4th commandment as a pushback. It provides relief. Likewise, the Zadok consensus appeals to the Messianic Jews and their theological needs. It’s a practical consensus for them to keep the Law to honor their heritage and keep the peace with their fellow law keeping Jews. The bottom line is:

Romans 12:18 said:
If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Likewise, the mainline consensus is practical for people in occupations that don’t allow them to consistently rest on Saturday, like emergency service workers or postal carriers. You’re not apostate for delivering the mail on Saturday, says that consensus: your Sabbath rest is in Christ. Not only that, but our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and He is working on Saturday too. No priest was breaking the Sabbath by working in the temple, and the temple was not breaking the Sabbath by being used, and neither are we.

It’s a strange reality to think about the fact that a temple can deliver your mail or heal your wound or tend a garden or do all the other things that humans do, but it is true. We aren’t God, but we are serving Him now with everything we do, and that should take some pressure off.

Romans 14:5 said:
Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds.
 
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Fervent

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I think we'd have to define what it means to keep the Sabbath in order for anyone to answer this question, especially in identifying how certain restrictions that are set out in the Bible apply to modern life. Is using electricity causing a fire to be lit? How about driving a car that uses internal combustion in its engine? Is carrying a Bible against the restriction on carrying? And what of the other 30 some categories of work that were forbidden by the Jews on the Sabbath? What do we mean when we say "keep the Sabbath"?
 
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Servus

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I think we'd have to define what it means to keep the Sabbath in order for anyone to answer this question, especially in identifying how certain restrictions that are set out in the Bible apply to modern life. Is using electricity causing a fire to be lit? How about driving a car that uses internal combustion in its engine? Is carrying a Bible against the restriction on carrying? And what of the other 30 some categories of work that were forbidden by the Jews on the Sabbath? What do we mean when we say "keep the Sabbath"?
Christians keeping the Sabbath seems to be predominantly defined by the Seventh-day Adventist church and similar. That seems to be the model most Christian Sabbatarians go by.

And then most of the rest of it is defined by the Messianic Jewish movement, which is to completely follow the Torah. Whatever a devout Jew does and doesn't do during the Sabbath these days.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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That is not correct. The definition of sin is simple: to do what God tells us not to do or to not do what God says to do. This is evident from the Garden of Eden in Genesis 1-3. Adam and Eve ate the apple God told them not to eat and thus were banished from the Garden. None of the Scriptures cited above disprove what I just said.
Sin is not defined by the Law. It is defined by God as whatever displeases Him that He wants to write a command against. The Law was given to a specific people (the nation of Israel) during a specific period of time. Our Lord Jesus updated those commands in His Sermon on the Mount. He’s allowed to do that because He is God. God is inherently allowed to give humans commands. That authority is established in Genesis and runs all the way to Revelation. (He’s allowed to make us as miserable as he wants, seeing as misery is defined by our fallen body systems that oppose Him.)
Hi Linux,
I appreciate your response back. I am a big believer when the Bible tells us something, we should believe it. This is what the bible says sin is. We can choose to believe it or, but it doesn't change God's Word.

1 John3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2:11 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law

Sin is breaking any of the Ten Commandments.

Why Paul said:
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.

The Bible could not be more clear on this. Why Jesus said quoting from this same unit if we break the least of these commandments one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30

Sin is also defined as anything not of faith Rom14:23 and faith does not void the law it establishes it. Rom3:31

We also have verses like where there is no law, there is no sin Rom4:15 so sin is very much breaking the law of God. Without God's law there would be no need for grace or mercy. We would not be separated from God. As long as there is sin in the world, there is the law of God, defined by God, not man.

The purpose of the Law - Decalogue and all the rest of it - was to show that we, as fallen human beings, cannot follow God’s commands no matter what commands are given. God is Holy, and we are not, so any instructions He gives we will fall short of.
This doesn't make sense, God gave us the Law that we will be judged by because we can't keep it. That means God who judges us by His Law James2:11-12 Ecc12:13-14 Mat5:19-30 Rev11:18-19 Rev22:14-15 is part of the conspiracy against man. That's not at all what Scriptures teach.

While God is holy and we are not, if we come to Him in our sinful state (justification) and ask for His help in overcoming our sin (sanctification) He will do so. But we have to want to obey God because we love Him. If we make the effort to obey Him, He will work in us so we can do so. Its the devil who wants us to believe we are a slave to sin, that we can't overcome so why bother, not God. Sadly many believe their devil is bigger to keep us in sin than God is to keep us from sin. Have faith we can gain victory and keep God's commandments by our love and His power, its a promise of the Bible.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

God tells us He has a people who overcomes - but it requires us to let God define things and believe we can overcome through Him


Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Believe it or not, people longed for relationship to God, to know and be known by Him. If you doubt me on this, take a good read of the Psalms. (People longed for what we have today, and what we have is so much better than they could ever imagine: God as our Father, Christ as Our Bride, and the Holy Spirit inside of us FOREVER.) So, out of love, God gave us a set of commands and he said “Follow this.” The idea was simple: through the Law, we became aware of our sin problem. God was saying “This is your relationship to me. You are not following my commands. You are no better than your father Adam.” The Law was meant to show us that.

This is the test of knowing Him according to the Scriptures.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

I do not understand why those who long for a relationship with God would want to worship others gods, or bow to idols, or vain His holy name or not want sacred time set aside with God on the day He designated to spend holy time with Him on the only day He sanctified and blessed to do so. This argument that keeping God's commandments leads us away from Christ is the opposite of what God says Psa19:7 John15:10 1John3:24
It is. There is nothing to preclude God from updating His commands to us at any time in response to our success or failure in dealing with Him. All of His commands are perfect and holy, but not all are sufficient to deal with our fallen condition.
Yes, but I would want a Text before saying only worshipping the God of Creation went from being a blessing to a curse. We we are told to worship this God only Rev14:7 Exo20:11 Exo20:3

Instead God says this right before His Second Coming

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Sin, breaking God's law separated us, doing what separated man before is not how we are going to be reconciled. Isa59:2

The law that defines what sin is (Ten Commandments) cannot be the same law that was given as a cure for sins until the Seed came (animal sacrifices) Lev7:37. Why God made so many distinctions from these laws. Only one set is written by God and is under His mercy seat.
When our Lord returns for us, I imagine that a new set of commands will be given for us to follow.
Those who make it through the gates of heaven are not going to be sinning, they will have already overcome through Jesus (Rev14:12 John14:15-10 John15:10 Rev22:14). In heaven there is not going to be any sin. The law of the Lord is perfect for converting the soul, His testimonies are sure Psa19:7 His Testimony is what is already in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19, the Ten Commandments written by the Holy Spirit, not man- if everyone was keeping these commandments now, the way Jesus taught Mat5:19-30 there would be no more sin. I do not believe He is going to have more laws, He is going to restore things back before sin hijacked this world.
Missing the relationship component behind the Scriptures is to come away with an impoverished theology. I

What is the point of of keeping the Sabbath anyway, if not a deeper relationship with God?
Amen! We can know doctrine Truth and still not know Jesus. But Truth helps and staying in darkness (untruth) is not the way either. The Sabbath is absolutely about a deeper relationship with God. Why God wants us to cease from our works and labors on the seventh day Sabbath (no worldly distractions) so we can keep the Sabbath day holy Exo 20:8-11 and have spiritual rest with Him Heb4,4,9,10- keeping our focus on Him Isa:58:13 which we do through prayer, reading His word, coming together as a congregation for worship, through nature and spending quality time with Jesus so He can bless Isa59:2 and sanctify us Eze20:12
If you think there’s a conspiracy, I’m not a part of it. I think there is some utility to keeping the Sabbath in this present age.
God claimed His times and laws was changed not by Him Dan7:25, the only law (4th commandment) that is a time (every seventh day Exo20:10) was changed clearly in history, not by God. The institution who changed it claims they did so on their authority over the bible and anyone who keeps Sunday over the Sabbath is bowing to their authority just as His Word predicted.

We are all involved in this conspiracy regardless if we want to or not by our choices. Our worship comes down to who we serve and obey. Do we stay faithful to God Rev14:12 or do we follow the crowd what popular man says Rev14:11 Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14 Jesus tells us which path to take, but sadly not everyone comes to Him, because they like their sins more than their love for Jesus John3:19-21

Paul warns about this too

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone [a]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God Exo20:8-11, written personally by God Exo31:18 comes with His power of Blessings Isa59:2 and Sanctification Eze20:12. Man needs God Eze20:20
The danger of following the theology of the post quoted above is that it can lead one to idolize one’s Sabbath over one’s God,
and I will have no part of that. Our relationship to God is more important than any Sabbath or lack of Sabbath worship/rest.
This is a popular theory against doing what God asked, but its not in reality. The Sabbath is about God, doing what God asks through faith and love. So by this theory, you are saying God would rather us profane His Sabbath than spend time with Him on the day He sanctified and blessed to do so despite so many thus saith the Lords in the Holy Word of God saying the opposite. Rebellion to God is not love or faith, it is just that, something God is trying to get our attention on if we hear Him Heb3:7-19


I pray you will reconsider some of these things and our Bible really is our guide and safeguard Psa119:105 Pro30:5 going away from it is the danger Isa8:20
 
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SabbathBlessings

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In this case, imagine yourself as a union less factory worker in 1863 when the SDA church was founded up in Michigan. Having a day of rest to the Lord would have been a relief to them from the constant toil and long hours in the workplace. That’s part of why that church has held on against the mainline work ‘em til they die American culture, by venerating the 4th commandment as a pushback. It provides relief. Likewise, the Zadok consensus appeals to the Messianic Jews and their theological needs. It’s a practical consensus for them to keep the Law to honor their heritage and keep the peace with their fellow law keeping Jews. The bottom line is:
The SDA church may have been founded in 1863, but the Sabbath started by God from Creation Exo20:11 and is a commandment of God Exo20:8-11, not a commandment of the SDA church. We choose to uphold all Ten Commandments, the way God asked.
Romans 14:5 said:
Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.”

Lets look at this closer, especially when using Paul's writings ( when essentially using them against what God said) because it came with such a significant warning 2Peter3:16

The Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments, written by God’s finger, not human opinion

Remember the sabbath day… the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

Romans 14 deals with matters of personal choice, not matters of divine law.

The Ten Commandments are never:

optional
disputable
up to personal persuasion

Romans 14 is about tolerant “disputable matters” Rom 14:1

Cannot be about God's 4th commandment as if man can decide which commandment to keep or not keep, essentially making one their own god Rom6:16. Why the Sabbath is not mentioned in this entire chapter, we are told plainly not to add what's not there.

I know these are all popular arguments against keeping one of God's commandments, our loyalty needs to be to God. God divinely gave His commandments, and blessed the Sabbath day Exo20:11 man cannot reverse God's blessing Num23:20 because man is not God. God nor Jesus who is God never once said we don't have to keep His commandments- He taught the opposite Mat5:18-30 Mat7:7-13 Mat15:3-14. Jesus as our example faithfully kept the Sabbath Luke4:16 Exo20:8-11 Lev23:3 why would we not want to follow in His steps when He literally told us He is the way John14:6
 
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HIM

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That is the very special case of a tiny group of gentiles wishing to participate in the Passover, and yes for them circumcision would be necessary.

That is a far cry from "all mankind" or "all gentiles in the OT"


again, that is a tiny group . It is the group of gentiles that wanted to
It would be Any who would have join themselves to God and His people. One Law for all, and circumcision is of the Law

.Num 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

Num 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
 
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