AI understands the Sabbath and Col 2:16

SabbathBlessings · Oct 14, 2025

HARK! said:
I'm referring to differences in the torah for inside and outside of the land; and I have given more than enough proof to support my claim.

If you are claiming that the tabernacle and the temple are the same; and that the instruction for atonement was the same in Babylonian captivity, as it was in the land; then the onus for proof rests with you.

You seem to be missing our original discussion

HARK! said:
No. There was no Temple until after Solomon was born.

My reply

Sure there was, they made a tent/tabernacle during the wilderness so God could dwell among His people Exo 25:8 (added)

It was made according to the pattern that God gave Moses modeled after the Temple in Heaven Heb 8:1-5

Was the pattern, not the materials different in the immobile earthy temple than from the heavenly one, or the mobile one? Please provide Scripture. Did it serve different purposes? Please provide Scripture.

HARK! · Oct 14, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
Please provide Scripture. Did it serve different purposes? Please provide Scripture.

You seem to keep retreating back to this irrelevant point to my original point.. I have established that there were differences. That proves my point.

This red herring doesn't change that.

HARK! · Oct 14, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
You seem to be missing our original discussion

That's my line.

The point is that forever means forever.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 14, 2025

HARK! said:
You seem to keep retreating back to this irrelevant point to my original point.. I have established that there were differences. That proves my point.

This red herring doesn't change that.

I have been talking about the pattern this whole time (see my post 23, 26,29,36,39). You made the claim there wasn't a temple until Solomon, of course there was Exo 25:8 of course a mobile tabernacle would be different than an immobile one, but what it represented, the purpose and the pattern of it, is it different? I do not think so. but open to Scriptures. I just haven't seen any.

This doesn't seem like a fruitful discussion. So I am going to move along. I wish you well

SabbathBlessings · Oct 14, 2025

HARK! said:
That's my line.

The point is that forever means forever.

You mean innocent lambs being slaughtered in heaven. No, that was a symbol representing Christ. it was a shadow until Christ now we have the substance. 1 Cor 5:7 There was no lamb sacrifices before sin and will not be after sin when Jesus returns. Rev 21:4

Guess all will get sorted out in God's time.

HARK! · Oct 14, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
You mean innocent lambs being slaughtered in heaven. No, that was a symbol representing Christ. it was a shadow until Christ now we have the substance. 1 Cor 5:7 There was no lamb sacrifices before sin and will not be after sin when Jesus returns. Rev 21:4

I already showed you that the sacrifices will continue, even after Yahshua's return, on Page 1.

I would encourage you to skim the study that I started on this subject.

You will find that not all zebachs are chata zebachs.

Oh, and you might find it interesting that the Pesach lamb/goat is not a sin sacrifice. It's a threshold covenant zebach. See: YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

BTW, the Zadokites (The Priests that YHWH ordained to settle all disputes concerning his word) would renew their threshold covenant with YHWH every year, just as Yashua honored Yah's Moedim, and Yashua's disciples continued to honor Yah's Moedim long after Yahshua had ascended.

They knew, because Yah has told us all. His Moedim are forever.

SabbathBlessings said:
Guess all will get sorted out in God's time.

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations (The Goyim) which will not go up to celebrate »the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations (The Goyim) which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:20
In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And not longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

Happy Sukkot! Tomorrow is the last great day according to Enoch's calendar, the calendar that the Zadokites keep.

I'll be firing up the barbeque,

SabbathBlessings · Oct 14, 2025

HARK! said:
I already showed you that the sacrifices will continue, even after Yahshua's return, on Page 1.

I would encourage you to skim the study that I started on this subject.

You will find that not all zebachs are chata zebachs.

Oh, and you might find it interesting that the Pesach lamb/goat is not a sin sacrifice. It's a threshold covenant zebach. See: YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

BTW, the Zadokites (The Priests that YHWH ordained to settle all disputes concerning his word) would renew their threshold covenant with YHWH every year, just as Yashua honored Yah's Moedim, and Yashua's disciples continued to honor Yah's Moedim long after Yahshua had ascended.

They knew, because Yah has told us all. His Moedim are forever.

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations (The Goyim) which will not go up to celebrate »the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations (The Goyim) which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:20
In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And not longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

Happy Sukkot! Tomorrow is the last great day according to Enoch's calendar, the calendar that the Zadokites keep.

I'll be firing up the barbeque,

Rev 21:4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

How painful is it to see an innocent lamb be killed. It was meant to be painful because its just a small fraction of what it did to Jesus our Sacrificial Lamb who Scarified ONCE and FOR ALL. Heb 10:1-10

Why would we be sacrificing animals which was a shadow when we will be with the substance which is Christ. If you want to live in shadows, its not for me to judge.

HARK! · Oct 14, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
Rev 21:4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Why would we be sacrificing animals which was a shadow when we will be with the substance which is Christ. If you want to live in shadows, its not for me to judge.

Zechariah is not speaking of the shadows. He is speaking of what is yet to come. We are living in that shadow whether we want to or not. The future isn't now. You see, all has not been fulfilled (despite the dogma), just as Yahshua told us.

I don't believe that John is contradicting Zechariah. Whenever I read scripture in a way that seems to have scripture contradicting scripture; my first instinct is that I am misunderstanding what I'm reading.

Do you believe that Zechariah and John are contradicting each other?

If so; how would you decide which one would be a false prophet worthy of death?

You seem to think that John is speaking against Zechariah.

If this is so; have you ripped the book of Zechariah out of your Bible?

If you believe that Zechariah is a true prophet; would it not be wise to heed his warning?

Leaf473 · Oct 16, 2025

I asked duckassist the question, if you live in Barrow Alaska, should you keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset

Here's its answer-
In Barrow, Alaska, where the sun does not set for extended periods during summer, it is suggested to observe the Sabbath from sunset to sunset based on the traditional understanding, but adjustments may be necessary due to the unique daylight conditions. Many people in such regions may choose to follow a local time schedule or consult religious authorities for guidance on how to observe the Sabbath appropriately.

if you live in Barrow Alaska, should you keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset? at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Not a single scripture is quoted. That makes sense, though. I'm not aware of any scripture that says what to do.

God's ways aren't our ways, his thoughts aren't our thoughts

SabbathBlessings · Oct 16, 2025

If one doesn't live in Alaska, I would not concern yourself with it. God is not going to judge us based on other people.

One can always try to find a loophole if they want to, or can find ways to obey just as we see examples of people in Alaska. God knows everything, nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14

Leaf473 · Oct 16, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
If one doesn't live in Alaska, I would not concern yourself with it.

I believe the Bible works all around the world, I'm sure you do too

their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world Psalm 19

SabbathBlessings said:
God is not going to judge us based on other people.

One can always try to find a loophole if they want to, or can find ways to obey just as we see examples of people in Alaska. God knows everything, nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14

Leaf473 · Oct 16, 2025

(Staff edit)
Get into God's rest, I'll say Amen to that

I asked chatGPT what God's rest was. It gave a super long answer

Closing with a scripture
Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need - Hebrews 4

Jerry N. · Oct 17, 2025

Leaf473 said:
I asked duckassist the question, if you live in Barrow Alaska, should you keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset

Here's its answer-
In Barrow, Alaska, where the sun does not set for extended periods during summer, it is suggested to observe the Sabbath from sunset to sunset based on the traditional understanding, but adjustments may be necessary due to the unique daylight conditions. Many people in such regions may choose to follow a local time schedule or consult religious authorities for guidance on how to observe the Sabbath appropriately.

if you live in Barrow Alaska, should you keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset? at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Not a single scripture is quoted. That makes sense, though. I'm not aware of any scripture that says what to do.

God's ways aren't our ways, his thoughts aren't our thoughts

Among Messianic Christians I have known in northern latitudes, they either keep the Sabbath from 6:00pm to 6:00pm or the times of sunset in Israel. Catholics often begin The Lord’s Day sometime between 5:00pm and 7:00pm on Saturday. I don’t agree with the Roman Catholics, but they believe that they are keeping the commandment, and it is commendable.

Leaf473 · Oct 17, 2025

Jerry N. said:
Among Messianic Christians I have known in northern latitudes, they either keep the Sabbath from 6:00pm to 6:00pm or the times of sunset in Israel. Catholics often begin The Lord’s Day sometime between 5:00pm and 7:00pm on Saturday. I don’t agree with the Roman Catholics, but they believe that they are keeping the commandment, and it is commendable.

Oh definitely

What I was bringing out is that there is no scripture saying what to do. Not even an AI can find one.

So a person living there can follow the scriptures as written and have some days hundreds of hours long, or they can take a modified approach

Better is one day in Your house than a thousand elsewhere!

Jerry N. · Oct 17, 2025

(staff edit)
I’m not quite sure what you are trying to say other than we have rest in God’s grace through Christ. Considering my Roman Catholic neighbors and friends, they are simple folk who keep the traditions of their families in relation to religion. Ask them about the changes in the prices of grain, and they can out think the best of PhD s. However, many of them love God and believe Jesus rose from the dead, but they hold fast to the authority of the Roman Church. What I find commendable is that they might have a field of wheat ready to harvest with a rain in the forecast, but they won’t harvest the grain on Sunday, because it is the Lord’s Day and work is forbidden.

Jerry N. · Oct 18, 2025

(staff edit)
I think I understand what you are getting at, but I think the writer of Hebrews was referring to the times of the life of Christ. Just like if I wrote, “I my day, everybody smoked.”

When it comes to changing the Sabbath “from morning to morning,” I don’t agree. There have been thousands of rabbis, both Messianic and non-Messianic, who have studied the scriptures, and none of them, as far as I know, have come up with that idea. However, it is an interesting idea that could open ways of study.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 18, 2025

Jerry N. said:
When it comes to changing the Sabbath “from morning to morning,” I don’t agree. There have been thousands of rabbis, both Messianic and non-Messianic, who have studied the scriptures, and none of them, as far as I know, have come up with that idea.

Yes, you're right. The Sabbath didn't change It was ordained at Creation by God Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 it can't change. Your point is one of the reasons I think God has protected Israel. You can trace the Sabbath back to the days of Jesus (and Creation) . The sign He is our Creator and Sanctifier.

Man does not have the right to change what is in God's Word or God's Sabbath. We are not to add to or take from God's commandments Deut4:2 Mat5:18 We were told in the last days many would make themselves teachers. 2 Tim 4:3-4. Even though this poster says he is SDA, this is not an SDA teachings.

This is what SDA's believe regarding God's Sabbath. Its one of our fundamental beliefs one accepts when they become an SDA.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation.

The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom.

The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts.

(Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

Happy Sabbath!

Jerry N. · Oct 18, 2025

SabbathBlessings said:
Yes, you're right. The Sabbath didn't change It was ordained at Creation by God Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 it can't change. Your point is one of the reasons I think God has protected Israel. You can trace the Sabbath back to the days of Jesus (and Creation) . The sign He is our Creator and Sanctifier.

Man does not have the right to change what is in God's Word or God's Sabbath. We are not to add to or take from God's commandments Deut4:2 Mat5:18 We were told in the last days many would make themselves teachers. 2 Tim 4:3-4. Even though this poster says he is SDA, this is not an SDA teachings.

This is what SDA's believe regarding God's Sabbath. Its one of our fundamental beliefs one accepts when they become an SDA.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation.

The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom.

The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts.

(Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

Happy Sabbath!

Shabbat Shalom!

guevaraj · Oct 18, 2025

Jerry N. said:
it is an interesting idea that could open ways of study.

Brother, it is a fact, as shown in the following passage, where they are given two portions of manna the day before, because there will be no manna tomorrow.

On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much as usual—four quarts for each person instead of two. Then all the leaders of the community came and asked Moses for an explanation. He told them, “This is what the LORD commanded: Tomorrow will be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath day set apart for the LORD. So bake or boil as much as you want today, and set aside what is left for tomorrow.” So they put some aside until morning, just as Moses had commanded. And in the morning the leftover food was wholesome and good, without maggots or odor. Moses said, “Eat this food today, for today is a Sabbath day dedicated to the LORD. There will be no food on the ground today. (Exodus 16:22-25 NLT)

Importantly, the bad news, that there will be no quail tomorrow if the next day begins in the evening, is not mentioned, because they will eat quail in the evening before manna is the first thing they will not eat the next day. The omission of the quail clearly shows the days of the week that begin in the morning.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Jerry N. · Oct 18, 2025

guevaraj said:
Brother, it is a fact, as shown in the following passage, where they are given two portions of manna the day before, because there will be no manna tomorrow.

On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much as usual—four quarts for each person instead of two. Then all the leaders of the community came and asked Moses for an explanation. He told them, “This is what the LORD commanded: Tomorrow will be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath day set apart for the LORD. So bake or boil as much as you want today, and set aside what is left for tomorrow.” So they put some aside until morning, just as Moses had commanded. And in the morning the leftover food was wholesome and good, without maggots or odor. Moses said, “Eat this food today, for today is a Sabbath day dedicated to the LORD. There will be no food on the ground today. (Exodus 16:22-25 NLT)

Importantly, the bad news, that there will be no quail tomorrow if the next day begins in the evening, is not mentioned, because they will eat quail in the evening before manna is the first thing they will not eat the next day. The omission of the quail clearly shows the days of the week that begin in the morning.
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United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I understand what you mean, but people don’t eat much from sundown till morning, The idea that there is little to eat till morning does not mean that the sabbath hasn’t started in the evening.

AI understands the Sabbath and Col 2:16

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an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

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