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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
German Peace Movement
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Stopped_lurking
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Perhaps, I don't have a crystal ball. If push comes to shove we will see.
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7thKeeper
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We didn't forget the lessons of WW2. Added to the fact that during the Cold War, we had to balance a line between the two sides and maintain our own credible defense without any official friends in case of conflict and when the USSR fell, we didn't change. The name and government might have changed in our neighbour to the east, but the people there in power were still the same essentially. So we never got rid of compulsory service and kept it in our Constitution.
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Stopped_lurking
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Are we at war right now? We'll get there, otherwise we will have to fall back to the free war doctrine. There's no reason give up beforehand. Yes, in hindsight I wish that we would have done like the Finnish defense forces (which we have very good collaborations with as with the norwegians and the danes). If the best time to do right was 10 years ago, the second best time to do right is now. Why the gloomy outlook?
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
There are some real nutcases in this country. Some do not believe we should have an army at all. Is this naivety, well-meaning stupidity, or just fear, like in the eighties about war? Why are so many people so vulnerable to these leftists who see no threat in Putin but regard the German Bundeswehr and military industrialists as the enemy instead
Anti-war: Germany's new peace movement gains momentum – DW – 09/27/2025
In Germany, resistance against the arms race and militarization is growing. Many alliances are organizing demonstrations. What unites them, what divides them?www.dw.com
Nutcases or Germany is under attack already.
If someone intends to attack Germany or the rest of Europe, these anti-military protests/movements would be very advantageous to potential enemies like Russia. Think Vietnam War.
I'm speculating that Russia could have planted seeds of these anti-war movement themselves.
And Germany has been "under attack" since the end of WW2. The war never really ended. It simply entered another dimension. A different battlefield that is well hidden from plain sight. A battle to crush morale and the soul.
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7thKeeper
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How is it an issue? Finland's active force during war is 280 000 (going to grow a bit to above 290 000 iirc) with a total reserve of about 900 000. You just need to have conscription like Finland or South Korea.
How'd the old joke go? Sweden will fight to the last Finn.
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Learning always
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10 million?
The tiny mini country Singapore got only 5 million, yet it has built a strong armed force, and the strongest air force in SE Asia.
Despite its size, Singapore consistently allocates around 3–4% of GDP to defence—higher than many larger nations.
Singapore currently has the largest defence budget in Southeast Asia, despite being the smallest country in the region by land area.
Singapore’s defence strategy is one of the most comprehensive in the world.
It got a comprehensive defence strategy, which every Western nation should have.
Singapore’s Total Defence framework includes:
- Military Defence
- Civil Defence
- ECONOMIC Defence – the West is weak in this
- SOCIAL Defence – the West is very weak in this
- PSYCHOLOGICAL Defence – the West is very weak in this
- Digital Defence
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- Dec 20, 2003
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Yes, agreed, leftists and crime syndicates are responsible for most of the cyber attacks on critical infrastructure, but could increasingly be used as proxies or fifth columnists by Russia. Russia is currently probing NATO systems and looking for vulnerabilities and timing response speeds. We need to be better prepared for these kinds of threats.
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- Dec 20, 2003
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I guess the problem comes when you try to define what economic, social, and psychological principles are worth defending and what are merely products of a corrupt, deceitful, and slightly dictatorial elite. Ultimately, we are defending freedom, freedom to trade and build businesses, freedom to speak and worship, and to make mistakes within our own spaces and freedom from the demonic, gangsters pushing addiction, evil agendas, authoritarian health officials with woke agendas, etc.
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- Apr 30, 2013
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Is it really a different country? Much of the old German legal code actually survived the end of WWII, and ethnic nationalism still exists in groups like AfD. After WWII, the old German Reich wasn't reconstructed so much as quietly rehabilitated, with their own "Lost Cause" myth in the service of anti-Communism in the Cold War.
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- Dec 20, 2003
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Britain won global conflicts like the Seven-Year War and the Napoleonic Wars with that many people. The Vikings conquered or pillaged right, left, and center with far less. Yet Denmark was conquered in a few hours by Germany in WW2. The Swedes have perhaps wisely stayed out of conflicts since their mainly fruitless wars against the Russians. Finland also lost against the USSR in WW2, but made both wars against them so costly that they could not impose the terms they wanted. It is all about mentality in the end.
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- Dec 20, 2003
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The AFD is more pro-Israel than antisemitic and wants to avoid wars by caving into Russian demands, so a different beast from the Nazi party. The Basic Law provides more protection than in most other Western countries. For example, in the UK, psychiatrists can get you hospitalised, while in Germany, it has to be proven to a Judge that a person is a threat to themselves or others. In the UK, people are imprisoned for comments they made on social media, while in Germany, free speech is protected. The German experience of Stasi and Gestapo has left them distrustful of those who would abuse power. If anything, this makes it harder for Germany to act as the strong man of Europe, protecting Europe's borders and weaker nations against the barbarians at the gate. Dredging up the Nazi stereotypes is exactly the opposite of the right approach right now with Germans. The Nazis are the excuse they use to do nothing and when good men do nothing, evil prospers...
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- Apr 30, 2013
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Is that really all that different? Many Nazis also favored the deportation of Jews to Palestine. Just having a nationalist affinity with Israel is hardly a sign of goodwill in the modern world.
Germany isn't the obvious choice geographically to be a force against Putinism. Poland or the Baltic states are the more immediate neighbors of Russia.
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