It seemed so easy for the thief on the cross to be saved.

timewerx said:

Are most just following a false Christianity that promotes greed over compassion for the needy?

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They look to the Kingdom as a future while lapping it up now, not realizing they have failed the entrance exam by focusing on self..

timewerx said:

Some nations are a lot worse. Wholeheartedly devoted to only serving the rich and powerful at the cost of the poor. Most of their citizens are with it or treats their poor with indifference and the poverty rate is very high.

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the greek word for nations doesn't have much to do with the romans vs the egyptians vs the syrians.

Jesus likely used those words to break through the class warfare and racism of the day (i suspect most americans can't even imagine what it would have been like) to get it into their heads that "all people groups worldwide" will be judged by him. but then our poor english translations carry over the word nations, as if a governmental structure you didn't elect will be held against you in the heavenly courts.

There are two obvious references to nations in scripture. One was when God established nations at Babel under the jurisdiction of sons of God ( the elohim that we called gods). The other was a spinoff of this when God established His own nation, the promised land comprised of nations made up of the 12 tribes of the House of Israel. These two, each with their own jurisdictions, covered all nations at the time. It is these that will still compete at the end of days for the battle is over the Will of the Father vs the will of all the rest and always has been. Institutional Christianity likes to pretend is is all about us rather than God's will vs all... as mentioned in the Lord's Prayer that few stop to analyze.

johansen said:

the greek word for nations doesn't have much to do with the romans vs the egyptians vs the syrians.

Jesus likely used those words to break through the class warfare and racism of the day (i suspect most americans can't even imagine what it would have been like) to get it into their heads that "all people groups worldwide" will be judged by him. but then our poor english translations carry over the word nations, as if a governmental structure you didn't elect will be held against you in the heavenly courts.

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ἔθνος (Ethnos)


It can mean a race, tribe, and from the root word, ethnic groups. Leaning towards the context of Gentiles or pagan.

However, in the verses Matthew 25:31-46, seems to include Jewish tribes and sects as well.

timewerx said:

However, in the verses Matthew 25:31-46, seems to include Jewish tribes and sects as well.

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do you need to reply to every post ever made?

johansen said:

Jesus is the judge of the sheep and goats, he was granted all authority.

The goats dont go back to the father (if they were ever from Him at all). They go to the pit

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John 12:47 " Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it" The Father is the judge not Jesus.
Ephesians 4:6 " one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" so yes God is the Father of the goats also.

Clare73 said:

What do you think "given all things into his hands" means? It's not about physical objects.
It means the fulfilment of God's plan and Jesus' control of the situation.

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Yes it is the means for the fulfilment of Gods plan, I read scripture literally and the plan is Gods will/ desire that none be lost but all are reconciled back to the Father.

Jeff Saunders said:

Yes it is the means for the fulfilment of Gods plan, I read scripture literally

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Jesus is physical bread. . .Jesus is a physical vine. . .Jesus is a physical light. . .?

Jeff Saunders said:

and the plan is Gods will/ desire that none be lost but all are reconciled back to the Father.

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Where do we find in Scripture that God's plan is that none be lost?

Did Jesus get the memo? ". . .whoever does not believe in God's Son stands condemned already." (Jn 3:18)

I believe when the Lord cried out on the cross in Matthew 27:46 ( Psalm 22:1), it was out of His love for us to cover fears many otherwise faithful people may have at death. The thief was in extreme pain & suffering yet repented with courage and, I believe, the Lord loved him for it.

Lukaris said:

I believe when the Lord cried out on the cross in Matthew 27:46 ( Psalm 22:1), it was out of His love for us to cover fears many otherwise faithful people may have at death. The thief was in extreme pain & suffering yet repented with courage and, I believe, the Lord loved him for it.

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He not only loved him, he redeemed him from God's justice on his sin.

Jeff Saunders said:

Father of the goats

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Jesus called them sons of the devil.

Regarding judgement, it is Jesus will say to many, depart from me i never knew you. Thems dont go to the father except through Jesus.

Do you read your bible?

Jeff Saunders said:

John 12:47 " Jesus came to save the cosmos not judge it" The Father is the judge not Jesus.
Ephesians 4:6 " one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" so yes God is the Father of the goats also.

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It sounds a bit out of context. Here is the whole verse and also including -48:

John 12:47-48
As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

Strong's Concordance for keep:

It would seem like Jesus is saying He will not judge those who hears His words but does not observe or guard or obey them.

But a judge is coming for those who reject His words (Remember that Jesus is the Word becoming Flesh - John 1:14)

The Pharisees rejected both Jesus and His Words.

A relevant example to the Sheep and Goats:

Even if you do not directly help the least of your brethren (feed, quench their thirst, clothe, comfort them in their distress) but as long as you accept the words/teachings of Jesus on the subject of good stewardship, at the very least, you're not stopping those who are helping the least but encouraging them. Then you are still helping the least/poor even if indirectly.

As opposed to people/Christians who have heard the preaching or heard it from another believer, read the whole Bible but chose not to help the least of our brethen in ways that Jesus described and also consistently avoids HIs teachings on helping the least of our brethren, making excuses it is not their calling.

Worst of all, they even discourage those who are helping the least/poor, stirs up doubt if it is really their calling. These have clearly rejected the teachings of Jesus.

Why it keeps getting back to the subject of Sheep and Goats? How we treat the least is how we treat Jesus. If Jesus fell down, would you have the heart to ignore Him or just tell Him to get up on his feet? Or would you run to Him, take His burden and lift Him back to His feet? Definitely not to be taken lightly.

But a word of caution, we can't turn the concept of humanitarian work into new religion either. Doing things expecting a reward or compensation or any other good things in return. Ultimately, it's about having a heart of flesh and not stone. A heart that bleeds, cries out, and hungry for the truth.

timewerx said:

The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day

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God's will. We don't follow it, we've been judged by not doing what He commanded... Putting the Father's will first which for us is loving all as self... acrtimg in servitude to both God and each other. Nothing theological about it.

johansen said:

Jesus called them sons of the devil.

Regarding judgement, it is Jesus will say to many, depart from me i never knew you. Thems dont go to the father except through Jesus.

Do you read your bible?

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When Jesus called them the sons of the devil, it was the culture of the time to some one who was following some one their son, it did mean that the devil was their real father but was a way to describe who they were following after.
One of the problems the western church has created, is we think that those in an eastern mindset of shame based society , thinks the same as a western platonic mindset and the two are far apart, we must read scripture as those who heard it would understand and that is in a shame based eastern mindset.
Yes Jesus did say depart from me I never knew you, but that is for this age, in the next age they will have all that does not honor the Father destroyed and then their true self will do what Phil2:10-11 says "Every knee will bow of those in heaven and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue gladley confess that Jesus is Lord."
You have bought into the ungodly idea that the Father would torcher his beloved creation forever, that's satan not the Father, we know most will not follow Jesus in this age but in the age to come all will be set wright.
Don't fall for the demonic idea that those who rejected or misunderstood can repent after the death of their mortal body, that is no place in scripture.

Jeff Saunders said:

Don't fall for the demonic idea that those who rejected or misunderstood can repent after the death of their mortal body, that is no place in scripture.

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But you seem to believe it yourself. Thinking that the goats go back to the father

johansen said:

But you seem to believe it yourself. Thinking that the goats go back to the father

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They do Jesus said he will lose none the Father has given him, Scripture says that the Father has given all to Jesus and that they come from him and will go back to him.God is the Father of all , our choice is do we want to be part of Jesus and rein and rule with him as kings kids or are we going to be subjects of that kingdom, that’s the goats, they are subjects of the kingdom. The idea that the Father creates people and then tortures them forever because they did not understand or were rebels is straight from the enemy, it insults the Father and degrades his nature and character of the one scripture says there is no darkness in him.

And everyone lived happily ever after. Reminds me of the Garden when it was said surely He didn't say you would die.

timothyu said:

And everyone lived happily ever after. Reminds me of the Garden when it was said surely He didn't say you would die.

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So you do not believe scripture when it says it’s Gods will/ desire that none should parish but for all to have life? Or when scripture says Jesus did not come to judge the world but to save us. Did Jesus fail or is Adams sin stronger than Jesus?

Jeff Saunders said:

Did Jesus fail

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He did what was required of Him in bringing the Kingdom to fruition. And yes many are given to Him, but nowhere does it say all. This isn't just about we humans. God's ultimate purpose is to overcome adversity in all His creation, not just arrogant us. There is no loopholes or easy way out of it.

timothyu said:

He did what was required of Him in bringing the Kingdom to fruition. And yes many are given to Him, but nowhere does it say all. This isn't just about we humans. God's ultimate purpose is to overcome adversity in all His creation, not just arrogant us. There is no loopholes or easy way out of it.

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1 Tim 4:9-11 " because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe."
John 13:3 " Father had given ALL THINGS into his hands they come forth from the Father and was going back to the Father"
Rom 11:32" For God has committed them ALL to disobedience , that He might have mercy on ALL"
The ALL seems to be all unless your a calvinist who do not believe this and change it to all kinds of people to fit their idea of God.