Air Force to provide funeral honors to Ashli Babbitt

7thKeeper said:

She was literally part of that exact mob and the first one to try to get through the breach and was shot doing so, after being warned. But I love how you try to downplay this as if it was even anything similar to a protest where people are chanting and hold placards on a street, like those two situations had anything in common. There was nothing sad about what happened, except for some Americans being involved in an actual violent attempt to stop a lawful transfer of power. That's sad. And the attempts to try to downplay this or justify it.

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She didn't breach anything. She was gunned down outside the doors.

ozso said:

She didn't breach anything. She was gunned down outside the doors.

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We can see the video of what happened. She was shot as she was climbing through the breach in the door.


At around 0:45, she is seen in the back, LITERALLY climbing through the door and then shot. So don't lie, she wasn't outside the doors, she was literally going through them as she was shot.

7thKeeper said:

We can see the video of what happened. She was shot as she was climbing through the breach in the door.

At around 0:45, she is seen in the back, LITERALLY climbing through the door and then shot. So don't lie, she wasn't outside the doors, she was literally going through them as she was shot.

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I've awatched it once again in slow motion freeze frame, and you can see her from the outside the whole time, which is why she landed on the outside.

ozso said:

I've awatched it once again in slow motion freeze frame, and you can see her from the outside the whole time, which is why she landed on the outside.

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I'm sorry, is your arguement literally that because she fell backwards and wasn't thorough the door "enough" that she wasn't breaching it? She's literally in the process of climbing through, literally in the doorway, halfway through. That's breaching it. She is not on the outside of the door, she is very literally in the door, going through it.

7thKeeper said:

I'm sorry, is your arguement literally that because she fell backwards and wasn't thorough the door "enough" that she wasn't breaching it? She's literally in the process of climbing through, literally in the doorway, halfway through. That's breaching it. She is not on the outside of the door, she is very literally in the door, going through it.

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I don't think she deserved to die for poking her head through a doorway. I don't think at the point where she was shot, it merited a death penalty. I think it was a case of lethal force to the maximum. And I think in other circumstances most on the left would call it unjustified.

7thKeeper said:

She was literally part of that exact mob and the first one to try to get through the breach and was shot doing so, after being warned. But I love how you try to downplay this as if it was even anything similar to a protest where people are chanting and hold placards on a street, like those two situations had anything in common. There was nothing sad about what happened, except for some Americans being involved in an actual violent attempt to stop a lawful transfer of power. That's sad. And the attempts to try to downplay this or justify it.

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7th keeper you say she was part of the exact mob. Meaning that if I belong to Democrat or Republican Party or the proud boys that gives you the right to shoot me ? And so what if she was was first through the breach but was she the one trying to bang the door at the final breach ? No she wasn’t she was quite a distance away occupied with other people. What am I down playing ? Nothing. Only that an officer broke under pressure but the protesters did back off at the site of his drawn gun. A bullet to the ceiling would have been adequate enough for everyone to get the message loud and clear. Do I hold the officer accountable. No I don’t due to the pressure of a highly charged situation. As to you saying with my example of down playing the matter with other protests . Am I ? Considering the that Floyd jones protests were a thousand fold more destructive with hundreds of businesses being raised to the ground and with a much higher loss of life for protester and law enforcement alike. I down play nothing despite what you claim . Even more so considering that the matter of the January protest was over in within a day what I take issue with is the callous coldness of contempt from some here that now label her as traitor. She was a patriot and loyal to her country and never a traitor who tragically lost her life due to the circumstances on that fateful day. About the only sad thing here is the unforgiving spirit of those who here now try to belittle her name even more by now labelling her as a traitor. Ashley was never a traitor As to my final conclusion you must remember also that many millions of Americans believed that the 2020 election was stolen . Now wether the claims are true or not is not for me to determine here . Only that is was many that believed . So we must take that into consideration also that it was a powder keg waiting to spill over and explode . President Trump did offer Nancy Pelosi the services of the national guard weeks prior to the event. Tragically that advice wasn’t heeded and if it were and we wouldn’t be having this discussion here now . 7th keeper there be enough hatred and unforgiveness in our world today without us adding to the flames. It is wise to let go in order to let life and love flourish once more.

Kathleen30 said:

Rock one you say ( considering the lack of any actual enemies within you don’t find my argument convincing. Well when considering that the birth of your nation was born upon a revolution against the British who held dominion over America at the time and might I say many other nations who have tasted the tyrannical rule of their own governments actions throughout history. I would say my case is rather strong. And the very reason your founding fathers wrote the clause in. That yes ones own government can also be traitorous and tyrannical and held accountable and it not just be for the common people of the land.

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I didn't say that the government couldn't be tyrannical. I said that the supposed "enemies within" that the rioters claimed to be trying to stop did not exist. That is a fact.

Kathleen30 said:

As to Ashley’s actions guilty of trespassing nothing more . Did she harm anyone
NO

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Physically, no.

Kathleen30 said:

or betray her country NO.

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Incorrect. I've already explained this.

Kathleen30 said:

Do remember it was supposed be a peaceful protest that turned ugly And certainly never an insurrection as many claim

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The intent of the protest isn't relevant - the fact is that it did turn ugly, and Babbitt was part of the ugliness. Leading the charge, in fact.

Kathleen30 said:

Rock one you than go on to point out that of the 10,000 arrested only 500 were jailed. Ok .

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No, I said about 1600 people were arrested of the 10,000 or so who were present. And of those, about 500 were jailed.

Kathleen30 said:

But seems of that 500 most of the charges of the charge of sedition and treason were later dropped

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Most people arrested were never charged with anything other than trespassing, vandalism, or obstructing an official proceeding. Nobody at all was charged with treason, and only seven were charged with seditious conspiracy - all but one of whom were convicted.

Kathleen30 said:

after many yrs of languishing in jail

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"Many years" lol. It's only been 4 years since the event, so this is already blatant hyperbole. The reality is that only a very small fraction of those arrested were ordered to be jailed pre-trial, and those were largely the most violent or severe offenders (or people who had already demonstrated themselves to be flight risks). This is standard criminal procedure in the US. At the point that Trump pardoned all of the defendants, the only ones still in jail were either serving sentences or had had the opportunity to appeal their pre-trial detentions.

Kathleen30 said:

due to the many Surveillance videos that finally saw light of day showing that many of these were not in the act of usurping the government often being escorted around by police officers and doing no violence to anyone.

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Note that the surveillance videos as presented on Fox News were cut and re-ordered in order to present a false narrative. I believe @Hans Blaster has a complete writeup on all of the changes made from back when the videos were "released". See here: Why did McCarthy Give Tucker Carlson Exclusive Access to J6 Footage?

Kathleen30 said:

Yes there were certainly a minority that be guilty of the crimes you mention and they still languish in jail today. And rightly so .

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No one is still in jail for anything done on January 6th. They were all either pardoned or had their sentences commuted to time served as Trump's very first official act on January 20th of this year.

Kathleen30 said:

But at the same time when evaluating what took place at the capital in 2021 that only lasted for a number of hour's when compared to the George Floyd protests or the supposed summer of love that went on like forever where many city centres and hundred's of businesses were looted and destroyed and many more civilians and police killed and injured. Yet there was never any consequences for the majority of those that participated in such activities.

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There were plenty of consequences for people who committed acts of violence or vandalism or trespassing during the George Floyd protests. From all the way back in 2021: https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8

There were certainly a greater percentage of the violent/destructive people arrested in connection to January 6th compared to those arrested in connection to the George Floyd protests, but that's going to be primarily down to the fact that there was detailed video coverage of nearly everything that happened on January 6th (especially for those who actually made it inside the Capitol building). When you commit your crimes in full view of multiple surveillance cameras, it should not come as a shock when the police catch you. In contrast, the US does not have very extensive video coverage of its city streets (dunno if that's a thing in Australia, so maybe you have a skewed perception of things), so it's much harder to identify people after the fact for crimes committed in a riot in a city. That's just reality.

Kathleen30 said:

Rock one Yet when it came to the January sixers there was no mercy shown nor resources denied to hunt all down even the innocent.

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Considering that, as far as I know, only two people were acquitted at trial, I think they did a pretty good job of keeping the innocent out of it.

Kathleen30 said:

And finally Rock one you mention to me to avoid using right wing characterisations I can’t remember ever doing so.

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Every single argument that you've used has been cribbed directly from right-wing/MAGA talking points repeated thousands of times over the past four years.

Kathleen30 said:

But what gives you the right to deny others their political thought ?

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You're free to think whatever you want. But I am also free to call out tired misinformation when I see it.

Kathleen30 said:

You must remember that a American president was impeached even if he only ever said GO PEACEFULLY and let your voices be heard. And being fully exonerated later from such false charges which were merely fabricated for political reasons and revenge.

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Some might say that his exoneration was political rather than his impeachment, but you do you.

Kathleen30 said:

Rock One I simply evaluate both sides of the coin

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I'm only seeing one side in your posts, so color me skeptical.

RocksInMyHead said:

I didn't say that the government couldn't be tyrannical. I said that the supposed "enemies within" that the rioters claimed to be trying to stop did not exist. That is a fact.

Physically, no.

Incorrect. I've already explained this.

The intent of the protest isn't relevant - the fact is that it did turn ugly, and Babbitt was part of the ugliness. Leading the charge, in fact.

No, I said about 1600 people were arrested of the 10,000 or so who were present. And of those, about 500 were jailed.

Most people arrested were never charged with anything other than trespassing, vandalism, or obstructing an official proceeding. Nobody at all was charged with treason, and only seven were charged with seditious conspiracy - all but one of whom were convicted.

"Many years" lol. It's only been 4 years since the event, so this is already blatant hyperbole. The reality is that only a very small fraction of those arrested were ordered to be jailed pre-trial, and those were largely the most violent or severe offenders (or people who had already demonstrated themselves to be flight risks). This is standard criminal procedure in the US. At the point that Trump pardoned all of the defendants, the only ones still in jail were either serving sentences or had had the opportunity to appeal their pre-trial detentions.

Note that the surveillance videos as presented on Fox News were cut and re-ordered in order to present a false narrative. I believe @Hans Blaster has a complete writeup on all of the changes made from back when the videos were "released". See here: Why did McCarthy Give Tucker Carlson Exclusive Access to J6 Footage?

No one is still in jail for anything done on January 6th. They were all either pardoned or had their sentences commuted to time served as Trump's very first official act on January 20th of this year.

Granting Pardons And Commutation Of Sentences For Certain Offenses Relating To The Events At Or Near The United States Capitol On January 6, 2021

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION This proclamation ends a grave national injustice that has been perpetrated upon the

www.whitehouse.gov

There were plenty of consequences for people who committed acts of violence or vandalism or trespassing during the George Floyd protests. From all the way back in 2021: https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8

There were certainly a greater percentage of the violent/destructive people arrested in connection to January 6th compared to those arrested in connection to the George Floyd protests, but that's going to be primarily down to the fact that there was detailed video coverage of nearly everything that happened on January 6th (especially for those who actually made it inside the Capitol building). When you commit your crimes in full view of multiple surveillance cameras, it should not come as a shock when the police catch you. In contrast, the US does not have very extensive video coverage of its city streets (dunno if that's a thing in Australia, so maybe you have a skewed perception of things), so it's much harder to identify people after the fact for crimes committed in a riot in a city. That's just reality.

Considering that, as far as I know, only two people were acquitted at trial, I think they did a pretty good job of keeping the innocent out of it.

Every single argument that you've used has been cribbed directly from right-wing/MAGA talking points repeated thousands of times over the past four years.

You're free to think whatever you want. But I am also free to call out tired misinformation when I see it.

Some might say that his exoneration was political rather than his impeachment, but you do you.

I'm only seeing one side in your posts, so color me skeptical.

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Rock one you say you never said that governments couldn’t be tyrannical but you say only until now . I was merely reminding you both are capable of such actions and not just the one as is well attested in our histories of the world. As to Maga. Again I say to you my political thought doesn’t mix exactly well with some of the Maga beliefs. As to the Tucker Carson video I did not know that. I did read through the Hans Blaster post with only a few reservations of the little sprinkling of words such as ( I suspect, possibly and probably) throughout the post. But that is mostly out of honesty due to him not being able to determine some of the times due to the editing and the visualisation of some of the police officers. But that in no way takes away from his much in-depth evaluation in how the editing has been done and may be very much a distortion of the facts. Point taken I would now agree with what you have shown. I would also now agree upon viewing another video that Ashley looks very much like that she tried to breach the final wall of partition before being shot. Rock one you also say the intent of the protest is irrelevant. It iis very much irrelevant when it comes to the judge determining the punishments and mercies to be handed out. More so if it is deemed as a insurrection and not a genuine protest that became ugly and spiraled out of control . You then say there was certainly a higher percentage of violent/destructive people at January 6th than the George Floyd protests. Well when considering that some 2000 police officers were injured throughout the George Floyd protests compared to around 140 police officers injured in the January 6th protest along with a 2 billion dollar damage bill from the GF protests compared to the Jan 6th damage bill of some 2-3 million dollar. Perhaps some future research maybe required on your assessment of that . And that’s not adding all the upgrades to security or payments for extra personal I mean just the damage bill alone for both. You than refer to my comment of many years you say lol it’s only been 4 years . Yes but for the wild beastly one the Shaman it was some over 3 yrs . And for what trespassing sribbling down a few complaints and continually blowing forever blowing on his horn. He probably just needed morea girl friend to relieve him of his ailments and maybe some time spent on a nature reserve amongst the animals to cure him of his beastly ways. Not so much 3 yrs in jail. He was rather harmless. Rock one have you ever been in jail to consider short time and long time . Me has been . It was on a school excursion to the police station . The officer did lock some of us in to give us a feel of the jail time. Then he felt in his pocket and say he had lost the key and all have to stay overnight until a spare was forthcoming we not know whether to laugh or cry thankfully upon checking his his other . He say oh here it is. A few minutes in jail was enough for me little lone a full day . So I not sure why You charge me with hyperbole. In the matter of short time or long time none be enjoyable more so when it is not warranted. My post has gone maybe too long. Your post will require two post . Me reply to the rest of your post later . Yours Kathleen

RocksInMyHead said:

I didn't say that the government couldn't be tyrannical. I said that the supposed "enemies within" that the rioters claimed to be trying to stop did not exist. That is a fact.

Physically, no.

Incorrect. I've already explained this.

The intent of the protest isn't relevant - the fact is that it did turn ugly, and Babbitt was part of the ugliness. Leading the charge, in fact.

No, I said about 1600 people were arrested of the 10,000 or so who were present. And of those, about 500 were jailed.

Most people arrested were never charged with anything other than trespassing, vandalism, or obstructing an official proceeding. Nobody at all was charged with treason, and only seven were charged with seditious conspiracy - all but one of whom were convicted.

"Many years" lol. It's only been 4 years since the event, so this is already blatant hyperbole. The reality is that only a very small fraction of those arrested were ordered to be jailed pre-trial, and those were largely the most violent or severe offenders (or people who had already demonstrated themselves to be flight risks). This is standard criminal procedure in the US. At the point that Trump pardoned all of the defendants, the only ones still in jail were either serving sentences or had had the opportunity to appeal their pre-trial detentions.

Note that the surveillance videos as presented on Fox News were cut and re-ordered in order to present a false narrative. I believe @Hans Blaster has a complete writeup on all of the changes made from back when the videos were "released". See here: Why did McCarthy Give Tucker Carlson Exclusive Access to J6 Footage?

No one is still in jail for anything done on January 6th. They were all either pardoned or had their sentences commuted to time served as Trump's very first official act on January 20th of this year.

Granting Pardons And Commutation Of Sentences For Certain Offenses Relating To The Events At Or Near The United States Capitol On January 6, 2021

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION This proclamation ends a grave national injustice that has been perpetrated upon the

www.whitehouse.gov

There were plenty of consequences for people who committed acts of violence or vandalism or trespassing during the George Floyd protests. From all the way back in 2021: https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8

There were certainly a greater percentage of the violent/destructive people arrested in connection to January 6th compared to those arrested in connection to the George Floyd protests, but that's going to be primarily down to the fact that there was detailed video coverage of nearly everything that happened on January 6th (especially for those who actually made it inside the Capitol building). When you commit your crimes in full view of multiple surveillance cameras, it should not come as a shock when the police catch you. In contrast, the US does not have very extensive video coverage of its city streets (dunno if that's a thing in Australia, so maybe you have a skewed perception of things), so it's much harder to identify people after the fact for crimes committed in a riot in a city. That's just reality.

Considering that, as far as I know, only two people were acquitted at trial, I think they did a pretty good job of keeping the innocent out of it.

Every single argument that you've used has been cribbed directly from right-wing/MAGA talking points repeated thousands of times over the past four years.

You're free to think whatever you want. But I am also free to call out tired misinformation when I see it.

Some might say that his exoneration was political rather than his impeachment, but you do you.

I'm only seeing one side in your posts, so color me skeptical.

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Rock one you say that others say that former president Trump after being exonerated was political rather than his impeachment. If you mean to bar him from the political realm. Absolutely. Even some of the Republicans were siding on the grounds of impeachment with the thoughts of banning him. President Trump had to fund his own defence team now being out of office. One of his lawyers called Bruce Castor opened with his introduction he was rather confusing. A little story here and some chatting about all manner of things he seemed up amongst the fairies on his first day. It did not look promising for Trump. But come the days that followed he absolutely shattered and obliterated the impeachment accusations and charges into a thousand pieces. The guy was absolutely brilliant. It became clear to any fair minded person that Trump was innocent of all charges. That’s my honest opinion anyway . Well you have told us what others think. But Rock one what do you think ? As to the the matter of video surveillance cameras in facial recognition that certainly played a big part in the identification of many from January 6th and being in full daylight unlike some of the Loyd Floyd protests where many of the nefarious activities were done under the cover of darkness often with the culprits being fully covered over from head to toe to to hide their identity . Rock one you ask of Australian surveillance the inner city of all major cities just as here in Brisbane be like Fort Knox they see everything. The outer suburbs be a litter less controlled but there still be many cameras there also. We Be more concerned about the drones down under these days . Me even have a first hand encounter with one of those beady eye drones peering in upon me from the window when I about to shower well I guess the operator got his few minutes of heaven admiring me. But at a cost me threw my shampoo bottle at the beast dismantling its activity first pitch.Than me redress and much quickly scamper outside to punish it some more and finally dunking the beady eyed one in the water that it see no more. And of course there much drone bird watching activity upon our many beaches here too. Seems no where is sacred from surveillance these days. Rock one wishing you a pleasant morning in your America today. Yours Kathleen

essentialsaltes said:

LINK

“I understand that the family’s initial request was denied by Air Force leadership in a letter dated February 9, 2021,” [USAF Undersecretary] Lohmeier wrote in the Aug. 15 letter shared by Judicial Watch. “However, after reviewing the circumstances of Ashli’s death, and considering the information that has come forward since then, I am persuaded that the previous determination was incorrect.”

[I wonder what that could be.]

In May, the government agreed to pay Babbitt’s family nearly $5 million as part of a settlement.

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With all due respect to the family, she should not be honored by the US, unless they can show how her military service damaged her mentally. Otherwise, she is a criminal that tried to illegally stop a Congressional duty to certify the 2020 election.

iluvatar5150 said:

And as I pointed out in my post, moving out of the way does not constitute "granting her access" the way you claimed.

I don't see a tactical team providing her aid, but it's possible I'm just not picking up on certain identifying elements. Either way, it's not hard to see why nobody else fired a shot. Even before she climbed through the window, several individuals at the front spotted the gun, called it out, realized they were about to get to the "Find Out" part of "FAFO" and started backing off. Babbitt, it would seem, didn't get the message. After she was shot, the crowd really got the hint and stopped trying to force its way through.

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The tactical team was right behind her

Yarddog said:

With all due respect to the family, she should not be honored by the US, unless they can show how her military service damaged her mentally. Otherwise, she is a criminal that tried to illegally stop a Congressional duty to certify the 2020 election.

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Was. Was a criminal. As Thomas Jefferson said, the dead are nothing, and nothing cannot be something.

BPPLEE said:

The tactical team was right behind her

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If the cop hadn't shot her first, they'd have been justified in doing so.

NxNW said:

Was. Was a criminal. As Thomas Jefferson said, the dead are nothing, and nothing cannot be something.

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She is not and she was not a criminal.

NxNW said:

If the cop hadn't shot her first, they'd have been justified in doing so.

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I didn't know some people here were such fans of the police using deadly force.

BPPLEE said:

I didn't know some people here were such fans of the police using deadly force.

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If the mob had got through that last door they would have had access to members of Congress and their staff. At what point do you actually think deadly force should be used in that situation? Do you let them all charge past you while you say 'Excuse me guys. Excuse me. Can I ask that you all turn around and leave quietly? Thanks in advance for your understanding!'

Why do you think they were breaking down the door? Looking for the way out?

Bradskii said:

If the mob had got through that last door they would have had access to members of Congress and their staff. At what point do you actually think deadly force should be used in that situation? Do you let them all charge past you while you say 'Excuse me guys. Excuse me. Can I ask that you all turn around and leave quietly? Thanks in advance for your understanding!'

Why do you think they were breaking down the door? Looking for the way out?

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Then why didn't those officers guarding the doors open fire? Why did they move out of the way?

Kathleen30 said:

.

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What's with the pink splotches?