Hardly. If it is impossible with men, then it is utterly and completely impossible without God. It simply can't happen with any amount of human hope or effort.
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Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment
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Maybe reread the quote you are responding to. What you say doesn't make sense as a response to it. Take care.
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The quote which you previous posted reads as follows:
"No, "With God" makes it synergism."
Am I correct in understanding that you interpret the passage as Jesus teaching that God needs to do His bit for salvation, leaving man to shoulder his own bit?
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FredVB
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I would say our response is needed, when God does what we need God to do. We may be enabled to repent, but it is needed that we will repent, with the faith that includes this, in coming to Christ. Obedience is needing God enabling that, but for us to do.
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Thanks. I understand your thinking and it makes great sense. Many, if not most, Christians share your position. However, in that view God is the author of our faith, but not the finisher, or perfecter.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
As you can see in the passage above, the writer begins with a call to the Christians to specific action with the clear assumption that it is an act of their will. Thus, your position seems to be quite sound. However, he follows it up with that curious phrase, implying clearly that it is Jesus who has done the work, start to finish.
There is also the similarly curious pair of verses in Philippians 2:12-13.
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No because verse 1 says let us lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.
Through the placing of His Law in our hearts and minds He has perfected us we whom He has sanctified through His blood. But if we are sinning willing after the receiving this knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only certain looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation.
He has given us His Spirit. In Him we live, move and have our being. For It is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. But we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Pressing toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Making straight paths for our feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Following peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace, the gift of the sanctification from His Blood and the Law of God in our hearts; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [us], and thereby we be defiled; Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape], if we turn away from him that [speaketh] from heaven. So let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.
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I will not attempt to address your entire post, but will start with the initial point. Let's look at the passage you quoted, without reference.
Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. . .
Please note the pronouns used in this passage. The writer does not use first person pronouns, but third person pronouns until verse nine. He is writing about "they", "them", and "those", not "you". He is talking about some other group of people - those for whom it is impossible to be brought back to repentance. Given the fact that the author is writing to Hebrew believers it is apparent that he is describing those Hebrews who rejected Jesus Christ and crucified Him. They continue to crucify the Son of God all over again, subjecting him to public disgrace. He uses Old Testament metaphors to describe them - land that produces thorns and thistles, which in the end will be burned.
He then goes on to assure his audience that he is not writing about them, because he (and others - we) are convinced of better things - things that have to do with salvation.
Many folks use this passage loosely to support an equally loose doctrine that a Christian can "lose" their salvation and then regain it at some future time. That is patently false. The writer states emphatically, that it is impossible for those who have rejected Jesus Christ to come to repentance again.
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I did not quote Hebrews six at all. Maybe you should reread the post and address it. Take care.
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You are correct. You did not quote any scripture at all to support your position. You seem to believe that your mishmash of theology is sufficient to rebut scripture, which I did quote.
Here is precisely what I based my reply on -
"But if we are sinning willing after the receiving this knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only certain looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation."
Whether you think so or not, it appears, for all intents and purposes, to be based on the passage in Hebrews 6. Do you have any other scriptural basis for your statement?
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You are mistaken. Chapters 11, 10 and 12 of Hebrews was quoted in context which refutes your stance. And then Philippians 2 was also quoted showing you took that chapter out of context.
Maybe next response you can forgo the insults and just answer the points shown through the context. Thanks.
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No insults. The fact of the matter is that you did not quote any passages of scripture in your post. You assuredly paraphrased the segment of Hebrews 6, substituting first person plural pronouns for the second person plural pronouns of the actual passage. Paraphrasing and quoting are two completely different matters.
In my post I provided the actual quote from Hebrews 6 in its context and you determined not to respond to my post, but chose to point out to me the fact that you did not quote scripture in your earlier post, to which I completely agreed.
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Thanks for finally getting around to providing your citation. As is typical in these sorts of discussions, it is a proof verse without its context. Here is the complete context of the entire chapter -
Hebrews 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”
8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.
36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,
“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”
38 And,
“But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
As you can see, there are multiple verses in this chapter providing assurance to the readers that their sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus Christ and they have boldness to enter into His very presence. The chapter ends on a high note of great encouragement where he tells them that they are not those he has been describing, but those who have faith and are saved.
This is, of course, is closely related to the previous passage in chapter six where he explicitly makes it clear that his audience is not at all those he described as never being able to repent again.
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Really??? Is that all the best you can muster to defend your eisegesis of Hebrews 10:26, 27?
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That was not the topic of my post in reply to yours. If you believe that the topic is Hebrew 12:2, please tell me why you chose to go off-topic in your initial response. Thank you.
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