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Darwinian evolution - still a theory in crisis.

Hvizsgyak

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In the end it doesn't really matter how uncertain the conclusions of evolutionary biologists are. Biblical creationism has been off the table as a scientific proposition for two hundred years. That particular "black swan" showed up a long time ago.
That's nice, I'm not a Biblical Creationist but I not going to argue against it. God can do anything He wants and anyway he wants. He may have used evolution (I just don't see the solid proof for that). In the end He gets all the glory.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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That's nice, I'm not a Biblical Creationist but I not going to argue against it. God can do anything He wants and anyway he wants. He may have used evolution (I just don't see the solid proof for that). In the end He gets all the glory.

What would count as hard evidence for you? Not proof, but evidence that shows that theory of evolution is a sound, factual scientific theory?
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Yes, humans are fallible and prone to all sorts of errors. Yes, nothing in science is 100% accurate.

But that does not mean that we should discard anything science says just because we don't like it. To do so is just a gross example of arrogance and ignorance from whoever says we should.
Listening to all of the replies here and looking up info myself still doesn't make me feel evolution is correct. I just don't see it.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Listening to all of the replies here and looking up info myself still doesn't make me feel evolution is correct. I just don't see it.

That's really not even a comment that addresses what I said, but even addressing it as a comment, none of us get why that is though. You just going "Well, I don't see it" is... it's a non-answer. Your commentary about it makes no sense about why you don't accept it as science, the whole "Well, who observed it then?" or the quite asinine "You've only got 50 out of a 1000 piece jigsaw!" which really and frankly does show that you don't have a good understanding of how scientific evidence works and flat out ignores over a century of study and discovery and knowledge for a very trite quip.

And to come in as you have done and said what you've said does show a high level of ignorance on your part, an ignorance you have no desire to correct by actually learning. Do you even want to learn?
 
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Hvizsgyak

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I have no issues with the Sabine’s video as it is an illustration of human behaviour rather than any science. She claims of being unfairly treated in her field of physics, has an axe to grind and uses YouTube videos to vent her spleen.

Your posts also illustrate human behaviour in action, you see evolution as threat to your faith resulting in an us vs them argument (scientist vs the common man).
Instead of showing why evolution is wrong and creationism is right, the “why should we trust scientists?” argument is nothing more than a strawman because it’s a lot easier question their credibility instead of making the case for creationism.
What I see is actually evolutionists claiming the theory of evolution is the life formed on Earth and the Hand of God had nothing to do with bring life about. Evolutionists have put together this package without 100% proof that this is how it happened. No research team was there to see the mutations take place and evolve. Evolutionists rely on the bones that they dug up in the ground, a very incomplete collection (hence the ghost species).

There are scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution and they are ridiculed and laughed at by their colleagues. It's like being in a secret society, members keep their mouths shut about the inner workings. But I do understand like you said, Sabine does have her own ax to grind so I listen and weigh each thing she says.

Oh well, God bless you.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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What I see is actually evolutionists claiming the theory of evolution is the life formed on Earth and the Hand of God had nothing to do with bring life about.

Present evidence that this is going on.

Evolutionists have put together this package without 100% proof that this is how it happened.

Of course they have. Because science deals with evidence and not proof. As has been explained, proof and evidence are two different things.

No research team was there to see the mutations take place and evolve.

Where you there to see your 20x ancestor mate and give birth to your 19x ancestor?

Evolutionists rely on the bones that they dug up in the ground, a very incomplete collection (hence the ghost species).

Yes, it's incomplete, which is what any archaeologist and paleontologist knows and expects, but the fossils that we do have present more than enough of a picture to show what happened in the past.

There are scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution and they are ridiculed and laughed at by their colleagues. It's like being in a secret society, members keep their mouths shut about the inner workings. But I do understand like you said, Sabine does have her own ax to grind so I listen and weigh each thing she says.

And this read as nothing more than a persecution complex from you.
 
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AV1611VET

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Biblical creationism has been off the table as a scientific proposition for two hundred years.

Then why do people arc & spark when someone says science can take a hike?

If Biblical creationism and science are like water and oil, then where's the beef?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Then why do people arc & spark when someone says science can take a hike?

If Biblical creationism and science are like water and oil, then where's the beef?

From people like you.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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What would count as hard evidence for you? Not proof, but evidence that shows that theory of evolution is a sound, factual scientific theory?
I'll be honest with you, nothing can convince me. I am a practicing Catholic and not even the easing up from the Catholic Church on evolution has altered my views. Like some of the stuff that astronomers and astrophysicists make predictions on about objects millions of light years away, evolutionists making these predictions (I know this is not the right word to use but I am having a mental block) about things that happened hundreds of millions of years ago I feel is really ridiculous and unnecessary. I'm fascinated with the past but I wouldn't have made a job out of it (but then again, "enquiring want to know"). When you are talking about such large distances, you can really only give a somewhat educated guess (but nothing that I would bet any money on and absolutely nothing I would use to shape policies in our society).

In my eyes, God started the whole "something out of nothing". It may not have gone down quite like it did in the Genesis. Sorry, I couldn't give a better answer. I appreciate you asking though. God bless you.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I'll be honest with you, nothing can convince me. I am a practicing Catholic and not even the easing up from the Catholic Church on evolution has altered my views. Like some of the stuff that astronomers and astrophysicists make predictions on about objects millions of light years away, evolutionists making these predictions (I know this is not the right word to use but I am having a mental block) about things that happened hundreds of millions of years ago I feel is really ridiculous and unnecessary.

So is there any real point in you being here talking about evidence and science and anything related to evolution then if nothing could convince you that it is actual and factual science? What has been the point of all this talk if you really will refuse to learn?
 
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Hans Blaster

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I'm sure you'll all have alot to complain about from what Sabine has said but I just want the audience to know about our "trustworthy" scientists too (for the record). Not all they write is 100% accurate.
Zabina (spelled faux-a-net-ih-kah-lee) herself is no longer trustworthy. I regret that I must write that, but write it I must.

She has turned her u-tube into a series of whinges about how science is broken and other such nonsense. The nicest thing I can say about her heel turn is that she noticed that her anti-science posts got more views and made her more money than regular science communication videos. It is also possible that she is being paid by anti-science groups or individuals.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I have no issues with the Sabine’s video as it is an illustration of human behaviour rather than any science. She claims of being unfairly treated in her field of physics, has an axe to grind and uses YouTube videos to vent her spleen.
Her personal experiences and received "unfairness" (I judge it not) is no excuse for her to make broad claims against all of science. She is fortifying the formidable forces aligned against science, knowledge, facts, etc. and she knows what she is doing. With regards to her videos, on actual science I ignore them now, and her politics video I operate in "Flamethrower first, ask questions second" mode.
Your posts also illustrate human behaviour in action, you see evolution as threat to your faith resulting in an us vs them argument (scientist vs the common man).
Instead of showing why evolution is wrong and creationism is right, the “why should we trust scientists?” argument is nothing more than a strawman because it’s a lot easier question their credibility instead of making the case for creationism.
Full agree.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Sorry, I took the first video that look decent. I'll check for another.
It wasn't the choice of video, it was the form of the provided link. I did not view the video because there was no way I was clicking on a tracker-embedded search link. I tried to strip it clean to view the video, but could not.
 
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AV1611VET

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Her personal experiences and received "unfairness" (I judge it not) is no excuse for her to make broad claims against all of science. She is fortifying the formidable forces aligned against science, knowledge, facts, etc. and she knows what she is doing. With regards to her videos, on actual science I ignore them now, and her politics video I operate in "Flamethrower first, ask questions second" mode.

Sounds to me like someone committed the unpardonable sin against science.
 
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The Barbarian

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Like all you guys say to me - prove it.
Sure. Darwin's theory:
1. more are born than can live
2. each individual is slightly different than its parents
3. some differences affect the likelihood of survival long enough to reproduce
4. the useful ones accumulate and the harmful ones tend to be removed, and this over time leads to speciation.

Nothing about origin of life. And it would work the same way regardless of how life began.

You saw what Dr. Wise had to say about the evidence. He relies on his interpretation of Genesis, but he admits the evidence favors evolution.

Since we directly observe evolution and speciation, that is not debatable. Common descent can be argued, but as Dr. Wise says, the evidence favors common descent.
 
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The Barbarian

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Sounds to me like someone committed the unpardonable sin against science.
There is no Holy Spirit of science. ( if the reference puzzles you, look it up in the Bible) Because there is no holy scripture of science, all criticism is allowed.
 
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The Barbarian

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Could you rattle off a few of them and who observed them?
There was more than one list posted here. But you should know that even many YECs have finally admitted the fact of speciation. Some even go as far as new genera and families.

As creationists, we must frequently remind detractors that we do not deny that species vary, change, and even appear over time...Before the time of Charles Darwin, a false idea had crept into the church—the belief in the “fixity” or “immutability” of species. According to this view, each species was created in precisely the same form that we find it today. The Bible nowhere teaches that species are fixed and unchanging.
Answers in Genesis: Speciation
 
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The Barbarian

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There are scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution and they are ridiculed and laughed at by their colleagues.
No, that's false, too. I took my first graduate course in immunology from a professor who was a YEC. And this was at a large public university. He was a tenured professor. You were lied to about that.
 
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The Barbarian

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There is no Holy Spirit of science.

(completely missed my reference)
Then who is Urania?
A minor Greek goddess. Has nothing whatever to do with the way science works.

You really should check the Biblical reference; it could be enlightening for you.
 
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