No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Brightfame52 said:

You mean nothing you can see and understand, I dont consider what you can see the standard of judgment

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Brightfame52 said:

Its common in arguments not to see each others views. The word all is commonly restricted to a particular group. There is all the seed Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Even a basic english grammar understanding of the word all shows limitation:

all
/ôl/
predeterminer · determiner · pronoun

1. 
   
2. used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.
   
   Jesus will draw/save,convert unto Him, all for whom He was lifted up for
3. 
   
4. See we forget that He says they will be drawn unto Him, that's the goal reached
   
   
   
   Google Search
   
   

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d taylor said:

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In The Bible where does it say a person who is not a believer dies spiritually twice. Because the only mention of spiritual death is at the great white throne where the unbeliever experiences the second death. Which is spiritual death, because the first death is physical death.


Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
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Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

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Brightfame52 said:

This is what Im asking,

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

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Brightfame52 said:

I add what I see

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A New Dawn said:

Man is spiritually dead when he is born due to his fallen nature. When Adam sinned, death entered the world. We are not spiritually alive till we are given new life by Christ.

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d taylor said:

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Neither was Adam spiritually alive, Adam was created without sin and would have lived on without dying if he had not sinned.

When Adam ate the fruit he began to die physically, not spiritually. A person does not die spiritually till they are cast into the lake of fire the second death a spiritual death.

A person is not alive or dead spiritual wise they are just born of flesh, but when they believe in Jesus. They then are born again this time spiritually and not physically. That is the second birth a spiritual birth as apposed to their first birth a physical birth of water and flesh.

So when a person believes in Jesus for Eternal Life they are born spiritually and receive The Life of God which is Eternal Life that can not be lost.

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Brightfame52 said:

@A New Dawn



Yes in fact the word draw is said to be probably from a word meaning to choose, its the word helkó and is said:
KJV: draw
NASB: dragged, drew, drag, draw, draws, haul
Word Origin: [probably akin to G138 (αἱρέομαι - choose)]

So the Father is drawing to the Son He has chosen to give to Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

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A New Dawn said:

So there is some vague no-mans-land between being spiritually alive and being spiritually dead? I don’t think so. If there is, please show some scriptural evidence for it.

Adam lived in the presence of God. That is what being spiritually alive means. God did not create man fallen, He created man alive. Man did not fall, or become spiritually dead, till he rebelled against God. Sin had not entered the world. Salvation deals with man’s sins.

The angel told Mary to call his name Jesus for he would save His people from their sins. (Jesus’ mission.)

Justification is when we are saved from the penalty of sin
Sanctification is when we are saved from the power of sin
Glorification is when we are saved from the presence of sin

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A New Dawn said:

So there is some vague no-mans-land between being spiritually alive and being spiritually dead? I don’t think so. If there is, please show some scriptural evidence for it.

Adam lived in the presence of God. That is what being spiritually alive means. God did not create man fallen, He created man alive. Man did not fall, or become spiritually dead, till he rebelled against God. Sin had not entered the world. Salvation deals with man’s sins.

The angel told Mary to call his name Jesus for he would save His people from their sins. (Jesus’ mission.)

Justification is when we are saved from the penalty of sin
Sanctification is when we are saved from the power of sin
Glorification is when we are saved from the presence of sin

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d taylor said:

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All sin was paid for by Jesus on the cross. People are cast into the lake of fire for only one reason, because their name is not found in the book of life, because they never believed in Jesus for Eternal Life.

Adam was created sinless, Adam was not spiritually alive he did not posses eternal life. Because if Adam had eternal life then he could have not lost eternal life when he ate of the fruit.

But because Adam was only sinless after he ate he sinned and was separated from God his creator. To get back to God his creator Adam now had to believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life to be restored back to God his creator. After Adam believed in Jesus, then he became spiritually alive even though he was still sinful and possessed now after eating of the fruit a sinful nature (knowing good and evil), but now He also possessed The Life of God.

There are only two deaths in The Bible a physical death and the second death that only happens when an unbeliever is cast into the lake of fire.

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d taylor said:

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You show a verse sating humans are born spiritually dead.

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A New Dawn said:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Romans 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

This is speaking of spiritual death and spiritual life, else there’d be no reason to say the one act of righteousness results in justification of life. They are already physically alive, they are made spiritually alive by Christ.

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A New Dawn said:

So, again, where is your scriptural proof of this spiritual no-man’s-land?

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